Seconds out...Round 22...Review of the Televue 22mm Panoptic and the 20mm Nagler T5

[Moonshane]

I recently sold my 24mm Panoptic which is a cracking eyepiece, mainly to fund the purchase of a 22mm T4 Nagler.

Unfortunately, they seem a rare commodity on the used market especially at the right sort of price. That said, you can all but guarantee that one will pop up at a bargain price now I have spent the cash on something else.

Enter the 22mm Panoptic, one of the discontinued eyepieces from the Panoptic range. Some might say I am a little mad selling a 24mm Panoptic and buying a 22mm Panoptic . My idea was that the 22mm has slightly more magnification and should increase the contrast in the view. This is important for me as there's a fair amount of light pollution where I live. It sits right in between my 35mm Panoptic and my 13mm Ethos in terms of magnification and reviews seem to suggest this is a slightly more 'immersive' view than the 24mm with the larger eye lens and wider body than the 24mm Panoptic.

There are three real contenders for this slot in my case (I am ignoring the 17mm and 21mm Ethos currently as the prices are just mental); the 22mm Panoptic, the 20mm Nagler T5 and the 22mm Nagler T4. Based on most reviews, the 22mm T4 was my main target but there were some comments about blackouts and weight that concerned me slightly, plus the first to come along was the 22mm Panoptic. As a result of a top mate, I borrowed a 20mm T5 and am comparing these two directly here, but only based on initial impressions as the cloud gods have determined that I deserve some cloud for a few days. I'll do a first light report under this same thread in due course.

In terms of size and weight these two eyepieces are pretty much the same. The 20mm is slightly heavier but there's not really anything in it - they both weigh a pound. They both work with 2" fittings but as can be seen in the pics the 20mm is 2" only and the 22mm is dual barreled (it's really a 1.25" eyepiece with an additional removable (although I'd not like to try it myself) 2" skirt for convenience). Incidentally, unlike the dual barrel Ethos this skirt does not have threads to enable e.g. a Baader Hyperion 28mm tuning ring to be added to create a pure 2" eyepiece and allow 2" filters to be used.

The following comments are based on my tried and tested 'staring at the wall behind my pc screen method'.

The 22mm has a much larger eye lens and the whole field stop (and 68 degree AFOV) can be seen easily with the eye cup up or down. It can also be seen readily with spectacles with the cup down. The stated eye relief as far as I can tell is 18mm and this matches with my own findings.

The 20mm (with its 82 degree AFOV) has a smaller eye lens but like the Panoptic is very easy to use with few if any problems with blackouts. You really had to try to induce them. With the eye-cup up you have to press in quite hard to get the full field but it can be seen. The eye relief is stated at 12mm and this also feels about right and is quite comfortable without spectacles. With the eye-cup down, the field stop is easier to see without spectacles. The eyepiece would be good for spectacles, BUT you have to try much harder to get close to seeing the whole field; the field unless you try hard is broadly the same as the Panoptic.

I think either one of these would grace any eyepiece case and from first impressions, the build and everything else is as you'd expect from Televue. Personally, I feel it's round one to the Panoptic but I'll reserve judgment until I can use them in my dob where they will come to life.

According to my rough estimates, the eyepieces should give the following in both of my scopes:

20mm 80x magnification 1.03 degree field

22mm 73x magnification 0.94 degree field

Almost identical.

[John]

Very nice couple of oculars there

I'll be interested to see what you make of them under the stars Shane. The only Panoptic I've owned was the 24mm which I sold when a 22mm T4 Nagler came along, which I sold to get a 20mm T5 Nagler - so I'm at least as mad as you

All were super eyepieces though

One thing that I discovered when I tested a Pentax XW 10mm is that immersiveness is about more than just the field of view, eye relief and eye lens shape / diameter come into play as well.

[Moonshane]

cheers John - I look forward to testing under the stars too!

I think I might be heading down the same route as your but end up on a different path! gives us something to think about while it's cloudy!

[Nick P]

Nice write up Shane, a cracking pair of eyepieces!

looking forward to your findings, I face the same dilemma as you except 16mm Nagler v 19mm Panoptic to replace a 32mm plossl.

Good luck with the clouds............

[dogfish]

I have a 22mm Panoptic and absolutely love it. I have the 35mm Pan too, but prefer the view in the 22mm (and that's saying something) as despite the light loss, it seems slightly sharper.

A nice EP, I'm sure you'll be happy with it.

Cheers, Martin

[Moonshane]

Nice write up Shane, a cracking pair of eyepieces!

looking forward to your findings, I face the same dilemma as you except 16mm Nagler v 19mm Panoptic to replace a 32mm plossl.

Good luck with the clouds............

cheers Nick

another great pair of 'classics'!

the only comments I've heard about them is that the ER is a little tight on the 16mm T5.

if your 32mm is a TV then I doubt it will hang around in the for sale section for long either!

best wishes

Shane

[Moonshane]

I have a 22mm Panoptic and absolutely love it. I have the 35mm Pan too, but prefer the view in the 22mm (and that's saying something) as despite the light loss, it seems slightly sharper.

A nice EP, I'm sure you'll be happy with it.

Cheers, Martin

cheers Martin

my mouth is watering now. I do like the field of the 68 degrees, and can see what people mean when they say they are 'easier' to use than the wider fields.

thanks again

Shane

[Kef9]

Well how did they compare under the stars? weve had a great night tonight so you must of tried them now. To beat the 20mm nagler it must be some eyepiece!

How does the 22 compare to the 24 panoptic?

[Moonshane]

hi mate

I reckon they were actually quite a close match. the 20mm probably just shaded it as it gave the same field but higher mag and a bit more contrast but there was not a massive amount in it.

I think as the 20mm will cost a lot more than the 22mm Pan, I'll retain the Pan as I've already paid for this. it's an eyepiece that I reckon will get a lot less use than the 35mm Pan and the 13mm Ethos so as a 'cheap' alternative it's a good one. In truth, it's probably a little better than the 24mm (for the same reasons as the 20mm Nagler is 'better' than the 22mm) but again not a massive difference.

the Pan is so easy to use too and lovely and sharp, although I note that the focus point is a little outside of my range; shame you cannot fit the 28mm baader ring as this would sort that out.

I may eventually get this or another 20mm Nagler T5 but I reckon the call of a 10mm Ethos is stronger.

[Kef9]

So your not going to bother with the 20N then.

Its funny because I was going to bid for your panoptic on ebay but didn't because I thought it would be a bit silly when I have a 21mm ethos. Good for you that I didnt because it would of cost you alot more LOL! I was amazed at what it went for though in the end. Very good deal!

For me the call for an 8mm ethos is banging in my ears. That and a 5mm Pentax XO (if I can handle the eye relief) and I'm all done!

[Moonshane]

I am still not 100% sure but I'll see how it goes as long as Mike is happy for me to retain the 20mm Nagler.

it IS a lovely EP. I change my mind on EPs almost every day at the minute - curse Televue with all their options!

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

Nice write-up. I do disagree that 12mm eye relief is OK with specs, as I have trouble enough with the 82 deg AFOV 14mm UWA and its 15mm eye relief. I just about scrape by with my glasses. This is why I am so VERY pleased with Nagler 22mm T4. The reason they do not come up often second hand is that they are so amazingly good. I have no real kidney-beaning or blackout problem at all, and it is razor sharp, edge to edge. Unless I fall on seriously hard times, I am not going to part with it (NOR for an Ethos (if I win the lottery), with its 15mm eye relief).

[Mark at Beaufort]

Shane as you know I have a 22mm Panoptic which is a fantastic EP. However, I must admit I don't use it that much. I usually start with the 26mm Nagler then go to the 13mm Ethos.

One thing that must be said is that Steve O'Meare really rates the 22mm Panoptic he used it for all his observing books - Messier, Caldwell, Hidden Treeasurers and Herschel 400 - speaks for itself really!!

Mark

[deepspacehunter]

The 22PAN and the 35PAN are great eyepieces... I inspect everything with my 13mm NAGLER.... TELEVUE does it right...for sure !!!

[Sadr]

Hi, Have you considered the Pentax XW20 ? It's in the same price range.

[swamp thing]

Hi, Have you considered the Pentax XW20 ? It's in the same price range.

Slightly old thread this one.

[MjrTom]

Very good review netherless

I am very happy with the performance of the 24mm pan.

It is sharp to the edge and the FOV is very comfortable.

However I have come to realise that I think my own eyes have a bit of astigmatism when using this eyepiece.

The large exit pupil must be exaggerating it somewhat.

[Moonshane]

In the end I did a complete change, sold my 35mm and 22mm Pans and bought a 26mm Nagler. One reason was exit pupil as I have now got a 16" f4 scope and the 26mm fitted better than the 35mm and the 22mm became redundant between the 26mm Nagler and 13mm Ethos.

[MjrTom]

Sounds very wise.

The 35mm Panoptic as tempting as it is, is not an eyepiece I would use very often.

That might change when I get the SCT but then I suspect that the 36mm Hyperion I have will perform much better at f/10 than it does at f/6.3...

Going for the 26mm Nagler you are maximising your FOV whilst still maintaining a good exit pupil.

Those long focal length telescopes do limit the field of view you can achieve

[Moonshane]

sure do, hence the purchase today of a used 90mm f5.5 (500mm FL) frac! will be nice to see the whole Veil, M45 and M44 in the eyepiece.

[Moonshane]

I think it will also double as a quick grab and go between the clouds, maybe a white light solar and also a travel scope. I'll upload pics when it arrives.

[MjrTom]

Sounds very interesting I look forward to seeing some pics

The one thing I am looking forward to most is seeing the veil nebula in the refractor and 24mm Panoptic. Just hope a UHC filter will bring out enough definition under a dark sky location.

We shall see!

[spaceboy]

May find a OIII filter more favorable on the vail Mark. The UHC filter I have found to work on most targets but the images did not have the contrast as in the OIII.

Congrats on the new scope Shane. I know you have been after a small frak for a while. Look forward to the pics and review.

[Moonshane]

cheers Nick

it's actually John's bargain Astroboot one but with an added dual speed crayford.

should be nice. I'll have it at PSP.

[spaceboy]

I thought it might have been John's you were having. I was just looking at the thread when he first got it. I remember seeing it for sale in Astroboot and almost had it but like many others was put of buy the description of the optics. In hindsight I wish I'd took a punt at it but such is life. I'm sure it will make for a great travel / in between clouds scope and give some great wide field views. Certainly looks the part.