First light with the Starfield 102 ED

[quasar117]

Hi all, after owning the Starfield for about a month now I've finally had a clear night to observe. 

I'm not sure if it was down possible poor seeing conditions, my eyes, or the scope but I was very underwhelmed by my first observation. I was hoping to see pinpoint stars but on bright stars they just appeared to flare and were not pin sharp at all.

I allowed the scope to cool for half a hour before observing.  The three eyepiece I used all showed the same issue - ES 24mm 68°, 12.5 circle T Ortho, 3-8mm SVbony zoom. Diagonal is William Optics 2" durabright.

Jupiter appeared just as a bright blob with no detail visible. However, it was very low on the horizon, certainly less than 30 degrees. 

I carried our a star test on Polaris with the 3-8mm SVbony zoom. I could see clear evenly spaced concentric rings. The outermost bright ring appeared soft, not sure if that means anything.

Whilst I could see the companion star, Polaris itself was not pin sharp. I'm unsure if what I was seeing was astigmatism. 

In my previous scope (mak 127) I never experienced this issue.

I highly doubt the scope is at fault but I wasn't expecting such a poor observation session from it.

Will have to wait for another clear night to test again.

[mikeDnight]

 It is unusual for stars not to appear sharp in a refractor, but you mentioned the rings were concentric, so that at least is a positive thing. Also, I wouldn't worry about Jupiter as its never good at such a low angle. Hopefully, with the Moon about to give us another glimpse of its alien landscapes, you should have some awesome views. It could be the night that was not good enough. 

[wookie1965]

21 minutes ago, quasar117 said:

Hi all, after owning the Starfield for about a month now I've finally had a clear night to observe. 

I'm not sure if it was down possible poor seeing conditions, my eyes, or the scope but I was very underwhelmed by my first observation. I was hoping to see pinpoint stars but on bright stars they just appeared to flare and were not pin sharp at all.

I allowed the scope to cool for half a hour before observing.  The three eyepiece I used all showed the same issue - ES 24mm 68°, 12.5 circle T Ortho, 3-8mm SVbony zoom. Diagonal is William Optics 2" durabright.

Jupiter appeared just as a bright blob with no detail visible. However, it was very low on the horizon, certainly less than 30 degrees. 

I carried our a star test on Polaris with the 3-8mm SVbony zoom. I could see clear evenly spaced concentric rings. The outermost bright ring appeared soft, not sure if that means anything.

Whilst I could see the companion star, Polaris itself was not pin sharp. I'm unsure if what I was seeing was astigmatism. 

In my previous scope (mak 127) I never experienced this issue.

I highly doubt the scope is at fault but I wasn't expecting such a poor observation session from it.

Will have to wait for another clear night to test again.

I have just had my Tal 100rs out and the stars where not pin sharp in that. I split the double double in Lyra but instead of a 10mm I had to use a 6mm so I could see the split and the stars where blurry. 

I really think it was the seeing. 

[Elp]

Could also be low altitude thin cloud. Even in a cheap acromat stars are usually pin sharp, I've also looked at Saturn very low in altitude in my Z61 and could still see some slight banding of surface detail. The SF 102 provides even better views. Also always check the objective isn't dewing even if it doesn't feel damp out, though the SF has quite a long dew shield so should be okay.

Edited April 9 by Elp

[RobertI]

Could you see the two equatorial bands on Jupiter? 

[quasar117]

5 hours ago, RobertI said:

Could you see the two equatorial bands on Jupiter? 

Surprisingly no, I couldn't see any banding. It just appeared as a bright star. No amount of altering the focus changed that.

Next time I go out I will compare the views with my binoculars. 

[quasar117]

5 hours ago, Elp said:

Could also be low altitude thin cloud. Even in a cheap acromat stars are usually pin sharp, I've also looked at Saturn very low in altitude in my Z61 and could still see some slight banding of surface detail. The SF 102 provides even better views. Also always check the objective isn't dewing even if it doesn't feel damp out, though the SF has quite a long dew shield so should be okay.

I did have a look for dewing but didn't notice any.

I remember my first views through a "department store" acromat and even they would have blown these views away. 

Perhaps there could have been a thin cloud as others have suggested.

[RobertI]

2 hours ago, quasar117 said:

Perhaps there could have been a thin cloud as others have suggested.

I think it must have been something like that; if you saw no belts on Jupiter, something was seriously amiss! 

[quasar117]

12 minutes ago, RobertI said:

I think it must have been something like that; if you saw no belts on Jupiter, something was seriously amiss! 

Hopefully I get a chance for another session this week - as it's playing on my mind a lot now haha.

[Alan White]

I expect your issue was that last night the Jet Stream would have been playing havoc with the seeing.

To check the jet stream try using the following site: https://www.meteoblue.com/en/weather

You need to click on Outdoor Sports and select Astronomy to get to this data.

Hope that helps.

[quasar117]

6 minutes ago, Alan White said:

I expect your issue was that last night the Jet Stream would have been playing havoc with the seeing.

To check the jet stream try using the following site: https://www.meteoblue.com/en/weather

You need to click on Outdoor Sports and select Astronomy to get to this data.

Hope that helps.

Thanks Alan, will definitely check that out!

[Rob]

I agree with Alan and the others. This has to be down to seeing & the jet stream. Its not great over the UK at the moment. 

[Naughty Neal]

Use it on some far away landscape dayight targets to put your mind at rest regarding clarity and then one can simply put down last nights poor seeing down to atmospheric conditions , whether  that be thinly veiled clouds or the jetstream.

[Mr Spock]

If the seeing is good you should be able to see the GRS, ovals, knots and festoons. If the seeing is poor it could well be blank.

[mikeDnight]

 When looking at Polaris, did you look at the rings both inside and outside of focus? It's often the case that on one side you'll see a softer outer ring while on the other it will be sharper. It doesn't sound like your scope has astigmatism if the rings are concentric. Often a low power wide field eyepiece might reveal astigmatism in your eye as stars may have a spike or look like seagulls. The higher power eyepieces would show errors with the optics such as triangular rings or the rings not being concentric. So basically, if the rings are concentric and when in focus at high power you can see the Airy disc and may be the first diffraction ring, the scope is perfect. If you can't see an Airy disc then it's almost certainly the seeing conditions putting the breaks on.

[dweller25]

The seeing on Tuesday evening was VERY poor.

Even Jupiter was twinkling to the naked eye 😱

Edited April 10 by dweller25

[Coco]

I had a peep through my Vixen 90M (Japan) and gave up after 20 minutes, seeing was awful.. Id describe what I saw as the same. High winds have whipped up the muck.. 

[quasar117]

To put me at ease somewhat, I have carried out an observation of a far away conifer tree branch from the kitchen - with patio doors open as it was drizzling outside a bit.

At 238x magnification the small leaves and branches were sharp - however, appeared  to oscillate in and out of focus to my eye. 

I assume the oscillation of focus was due to warm air currents inside the kitchen being drawn outside to the patio causing disturbance. Either that or my eye was having trouble keeping focus.

In summary though, I'm more confident that last night's observation, or lack of.... was due to the poor seeing conditions and not the optics, which is a relief.

Eager for another clear night now though!

On another note - I'm loving the Baader SF III. It really makes target acquisition a breeze. The Vixen GP is also really a joy to operate, slo mos are definitely for me.

 

 

[Captain Scarlet]

Definitely it sounds like bad seeing. And observing from inside a warmer room, you’re looking through a stream of warm air pouring out of your door or window, that’s a well-known effect even amongst birders.

I have a fabulous 140mm refractor with which I’ve seen Saturn’s small moon Mimas on a very good night. But the last time I took it out, the seeing was really bad, yielding views similar to what you describe, so I just abandoned and came in after a few minutes.

It’s just bad luck you had one of those nights for your Starfield’s First Light. Don’t lose heart, it’ll be fine I’m quite certain.

Cheers Magnus

Edited April 10 by Captain Scarlet

[Naughty Neal]

1 hour ago, quasar117 said:

To put me at ease somewhat, I have carried out an observation of a far away conifer tree branch from the kitchen - with patio doors open as it was drizzling outside a bit.

At 238x magnification the small leaves and branches were sharp - however, appeared  to oscillate in and out of focus to my eye. 

I assume the oscillation of focus was due to warm air currents inside the kitchen being drawn outside to the patio causing disturbance. Either that or my eye was having trouble keeping focus.

In summary though, I'm more confident that last night's observation, or lack of.... was due to the poor seeing conditions and not the optics, which is a relief.

Eager for another clear night now though!

On another note - I'm loving the Baader SF III. It really makes target acquisition a breeze. The Vixen GP is also really a joy to operate, slo mos are definitely for me.

 

 

Oh dear, even daylight is working against you . 

At least somewhat one can rule out any issue with the new SF and of course your EP's , which of course you know are fine.

[Louis D]

Try highly defocusing a bright star or planet next time to examine the image for wobbling and bubbling due to atmospheric distortion.

[quasar117]

Managed to get out for a couple of hours last night. There was a thin cloud but with some breaks.

The young moon looked stunning. Crater rims along the terminator were very sharp. No complaints there.

Using the ZVbony zoom and 12.5mm Ortho - I observed Capella and Polaris. Again as before the Star appeared to be 'hairy' around the circumference and not pinpoint like the stars in the background starfield. Also if my eye was not perfectly centered the star would distort and create a spike.

In-focus revealed concentric rings. However, out-focus I could not discern any rings it just appeared as a solid white circle. Is this normal?

For comparison I dusted off my old department store "toy' refractor. I was surprised that when focused on a star, the star appeared more pinpoint than viewing through the Starfield 102. Very strange.

Whilst I'm happy with the lunar views, I still felt something is not quite right when viewing stars. Could it be just the seeing again?

 

 

[dweller25]

Moving thin clouds = not the best conditions.

It may be better tonight, I plan to take out my 4”……….

[Mr Spock]

I saw some pics of the moon on my local fb group from last night. However they were hazy. I might have tried the scope If I'd have known there was a chance. CO was red 100% all the way 

[John]

Edit: posted in wrong section. Sorry.

 

Edited April 13 by John