Aperture fever…

[Neutrinosoup]

Really enjoying my 8 inch Celestron Starsense Dobsonian. I’ve been covering all the nightly challenge targets.

1) is a 12 inch Dob manageable by 1 person (40s male, small build, 10k/5k runner)?

2) what are the mid and upper tier manufacturers for Dobsonians in the UK?

p.s. I’m not going to immediately run out and buy a 12 inch but might as well get an idea of how much I need to save/put aside to get a decent one!!

[Mr Spock]

My StellaLyra 12" has excellent optics. It's outside right now!

I'm almost 66, have a slipped disc and other 'weaknesses', and I can move it from the shed to the patio without too much difficulty. Shed is on the patio.

[Franklin]

16 minutes ago, Mr Spock said:

I'm almost 66, have a slipped disc and other 'weaknesses', and I can move it from the shed to the patio without too much difficulty.

You can lift heavy double-glazed patio doors as well, so a 12" dob is nothing!

[Mr Spock]

3 minutes ago, Franklin said:

You can lift heavy double-glazed patio doors as well

Yes, I did do that, even though I thought I couldn't! According to what I'm told they are 53kg... 

[Astronomist]

1 hour ago, Neutrinosoup said:

what are the mid and upper tier manufacturers for Dobsonians in the UK?

You could look at orion optics UK, their products look very good, however their reputation is less than stellar.

Take Mr Spock's comments Re weight with a pinch of salt, Vulcans are much stronger than the average human... 🖖  Joking aside, Dobs are really not as heavy as they look. Most of the awkwardness comes from their large volume, which can make negotiating stairs tricky.

[John]

I had a Meade Lightbridge 12 and found it too heavy for me at 36kg in total. I later moved to a pre-owned Orion Orion optics 12 inch and found that much easier to set up and move about - it weighed around 10kg less than the Meade LB 12 !

12 inch optics are a noticeable step up from an 8 inch in performance though, whatever "flavour" you go for 🙂 

Edited January 14 by John

[ollypenrice]

You need to tell us the kind of portability you need. Stairs? Transport by car? Just rolling it out from garage or shed? For the latter, a 20 inch is no problem once you're organized.

38 minutes ago, Astronomist said:

You could look at orion optics UK, their products look very good, however their reputation is less than stellar.

'Less than stellar' is the understatement of the year in my house. Anything more must be by PM.

Olly

[Neutrinosoup]

10 hours ago, ollypenrice said:

You need to tell us the kind of portability you need. Stairs? Transport by car? Just rolling it out from garage or shed? For the latter, a 20 inch is no problem once you're organized.

'Less than stellar' is the understatement of the year in my house. Anything more must be by PM.

Olly

No stairs:

1) site 1 = front garden on concrete slab (20-30m from storage)

2) site 2 = field behind house on levelled concrete platform  ( 200m  + small incline to get there)

[Dark Vader]

I've recently had an Orion Optics UK 12" Dob delivered, the VX12L. I'm 60, bad knees, back can be a bit iffy, etc. Weight wise, moving it isn't that bad. Take the OTA off the base, move the base, come back for the OTA, and repeat when you finish. The OTA is big and awkward to move but not that heavy. 

I can't speak for OOUK's "normal" service as I went for the better mirror option. I'm guessing they had to make most of the scope from scratch as I ordered it in June and it arrived, completely unannounced, in December. An email to say it had been dispatched would have been useful, as would some progress contact from them during the 6 months from order to arrival. 

1st impressions - seems well made, some nice views of Jupiter and Orion. Collimation needed tweaking a bit, but I think it's pretty good now. Just need a clear night for a star test. Storing it vertically with OTA in the mount it stands 67 inches (1m70) high, the OTA alone is 1m55. The base is solid, and has a smaller footprint than my 200P.

Ordered with a RACI finder, friction brake, primary fan, and a 1/10pv primary mirror. Mirror came with a Zygo test report. I have no idea what any of it means 😀 but googling Strehl = 0.996 it seems pretty good.

Hope that helps

Andy

 

Edited January 15 by Dark Vader

[Mr Spock]

I could tell you of OO's customer service and a certain individual there that would make your toes curl - but not in public  Anywho...

The 10" flextube I had, I could probably move any distance. It isn't the weight, it's the bulk and ease of picking up. The 12" SL I have is huge and there's just two small azimuth knobs to pick it up with. If it had handles that would make things a lot easier.

That's one of the reasons people like the Bresser - it has huge azimuth 'wheels' you can get hold of. It also has a rotatable tube which I wish I had. Downside is the single speed focuser and unknown optical quality.

[bosun21]

I also owned the SL 12" but sold it in favour of a 10" go to dobsonian. I found that the optics on the SL were excellent and the scope was easy to move and manoeuvre around on a sack barrow. I just had to fit longer feet on the base to allow the sack barrow to easily slide underneath the base. I now use the same process with my 10" go to. I agree that the SL 12" would benefit from having handles which I would have no doubt added had I kept it.

[ollypenrice]

5 hours ago, Neutrinosoup said:

No stairs:

1) site 1 = front garden on concrete slab (20-30m from storage)

2) site 2 = field behind house on levelled concrete platform  ( 200m  + small incline to get there)

The classic wheelbarrow handles might work for you, then.  https://www.google.com/search?q=dobsobnian+wheelbarrow+handles&rlz=1C1CHBF_enFR821FR821&oq=dobsobnian+wheelbarrow+handles&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIJCAEQIRgKGKAB0gEKMTE5MTFqMGoxNagCALACAA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#vhid=aue2pqn7Umgm0M&vssid=l&ip=1

Olly

[Elp]

Your site 1 shouldn't present any issues whatsoever, site 2 however... Have you tried carrying an excess 10-20kg that distance? And to add to that something unwieldy in size and volume? I'd think you'd struggle immensely, you mentioned your cardio fitness level, carrying weight over distance is another level of fitness entirely. If you could adapt it to carry it on your back it might be an easier endeavour, but maybe best left to site 1 use.

[bosun21]

A sack barrow makes moving a 12” a piece of cake even over a distance. As long as you don’t encounter any considerable obstacles.

[Elp]

Guess it also depends on the area, if it's quiet enough then it'd be easier for sure.

[John]

Dealing with the weight and bulk of a 12 inch aperture optical tube is one thing, but there is a degree of stress caused by the knowledge that bumping it will mean re-collimating and may even dent the tube or, in the case of a bad bump, damage the optics. Moving a dob mount around has much less stress associated with it although they can still be awkward.

Of course the first few times you do it, you are fuelled with anticipation and excitement of a new, bigger scope. As time goes by, the lighter, smaller setups seem to become more attractive though 🙄

The further that the scope needs to be carried and the more obstacles that need to be overcome, before reaching the setup place, the more the chance of an accident.

My Orion Optics 12 inch weighed around the same as a chinese 10 inch but even so I rarely carried it more than a few metres on my own. 

[scarp15]

Had a 12" Skywatcher Flextube the manual version, which was, at a dark sky site, very impactful, following on from being accustomed to using an 8" SCT. It was by its nature, when collapsed quite portable, though I would not had wished for the 14" version, as was still a bit hefty. It was OK to store it within an upstairs bedroom, thus up and down the stairs was just about fine, due to its more compact profile. However the base was bulky, quite heavy and I remade a part in seasoned ply. A consideration though.

Then I had a 14" OOUK (VX14) with the dob base. A solid tube that was manageable and I had often taken it to dark sky sites. A VX12 would be quite reasonable to manoeuvre. The OOUK dob bases are excellent. 

Alternatively consider a truss design perhaps. 

[Ludd]

I made the jump up to a 17.5” dobsonian a while ago and it is just about manageable by a mildly unfit 56 year old with coronary artery disease, short legs and minimal upper body strength (I am a cyclist). I have a few steps in the garden but the main challenge is the width of the base, which almost matches the width of my shed door.  The jump from an 8” aperture was astonishing but it’s not really ideal for quick observing sessions as it requires a bit of setting up, including a stepladder to reach the eyepiece.  I do wonder if 12” would have been more sensible (and cheaper)

[wookie1965]

I regret buying the 10" celestron starsense its too heavy for me with my spine. I have had it up for sale for months I'm going to use the money for a easier mount something like a Ioptron AZ pro I believe I can make it fit my EQ5 extension tube so I can easily use my F10 refractors. 

Once I have saved up I will look for a carbon fibre tripod with a extension.

[Second Time Around]

The OOUK Dob bases are absolutely superb.  They're all aluminium and so don't rot.  More importantly they're lighter and, even more importantly, have a very much smaller footprint than any mass market Dob.

I have 2 OOUK Dobs, an 8 inch and a 10 inch.  Despite having an hereditary muscle condition, on my good days I can manage either size - the 10 inch takes 2 trips whereas with the 8 inch I can carry the OTA in one hand and the base in the other. 

An able-bodied person would have no problem carrying a 10 inch OOUK in 2 hands because, as has been mentioned, the altitude rings make a great carrying handle.  The Bresser has similar altitude rings although the OTA is somewhat heavier.  However, the Bresser mount is not only heavier but most of all has a much bigger footprint, the latter making it much more difficult to carry than the OOUK.

The 10 inch OOUK Dob base is just about the same width as my hips, and that means it stays still when I carry it.  This makes it very much easier to carry, especially after fitting kitchen door handles to each side.

I tried a 12 inch at a fair last year, and for me that was a step too far.  Talking of steps, I have to carry my scopes up 2 steps so an ordinary sack barrow wouldn't work.

OOUK will make any size Dob base to order and so they can be fitted to other makes of OTAs.  They're not cheap though.  But this may be something well worth considering.

Both my OOUK Dobs were bought used and any problems, if there had been any, had already been sorted out by the previous owners.  Although they're expensive new they depreciate a lot and so make very good used buys.

Edited January 16 by Second Time Around
Grammar

[Neutrinosoup]

On 15/01/2024 at 20:01, Second Time Around said:

The OOUK Dob bases are absolutely superb.  They're all aluminium and so don't rot.  More importantly they're lighter and, even more importantly, have a very much smaller footprint than any mass market Dob.

I have 2 OOUK Dobs, an 8 inch and a 10 inch.  Despite having an hereditary muscle condition, on my good days I can manage either size - the 10 inch takes 2 trips whereas with the 8 inch I can carry the OTA in one hand and the base in the other. 

An able-bodied person would have no problem carrying a 10 inch OOUK in 2 hands because, as has been mentioned, the altitude rings make a great carrying handle.  The Bresser has similar altitude rings although the OTA is somewhat heavier.  However, the Bresser mount is not only heavier but most of all has a much bigger footprint, the latter making it much more difficult to carry than the OOUK.

The 10 inch OOUK Dob base is just about the same width as my hips, and that means it stays still when I carry it.  This makes it very much easier to carry, especially after fitting kitchen door handles to each side.

I tried a 12 inch at a fair last year, and for me that was a step too far.  Talking of steps, I have to carry my scopes up 2 steps so an ordinary sack barrow wouldn't work.

OOUK will make any size Dob base to order and so they can be fitted to other makes of OTAs.  They're not cheap though.  But this may be something well worth considering.

Both my OOUK Dobs were bought used and any problems, if there had been any, had already been sorted out by the previous owners.  Although they're expensive new they depreciate a lot and so make very good used buys.

Sorry, for the delayed response to your informative post!

Are the mirrors better than the entry level Celestron/skywatcher dobs? And do Orion Optics have any rivals that  FLO might sell? I guess my ideal would be a 12 inch Dob that I can manage to lift in two parts by myself (46 and reasonably fit), with dual speed focuser and higher quality mirrors.

Edited January 30 by Neutrinosoup

[Deadlake]

30 minutes ago, Neutrinosoup said:

Sorry, for the delayed response to your informative post!

Are the mirrors better than the entry level Celestron/skywatcher dobs? And do Orion Optics have any rivals that  FLO might sell? I guess my ideal would be a 12 inch Dob that I can manage to lift in two parts by myself (46 and reasonably fit), with dual speed focuser and higher quality mirrors.

TS optics does have comparable mirrors on their ONTC line or if you have a mirror they will build a scope around it.
TS also sell Orion, so you do not have to deal with them....... 

[paulastro]

On 15/01/2024 at 18:50, wookie1965 said:

I regret buying the 10" celestron starsense its too heavy for me with my spine. I have had it up for sale for months I'm going to use the money for a easier mount something like a Ioptron AZ pro I believe I can make it fit my EQ5 extension tube so I can easily use my F10 refractors. 

Once I have saved up I will look for a carbon fibre tripod with a extension.

  As my diseased hip got worse  ( I had it replaced with a new one on Jan 9th!) I too struggled with my 10inch SS Dob.  Quite by accident I came across the device below on FLOs website.  When I read about it, I was very doubtful  and so I was when it arrived - at first it just looked like a jumble of wide Velcro.

However, it works extremely well, at least for me.  It works very well even if you just use the two straps, the harness round the neck makes it easier if you have to carry the scope any distance.  The harness bit can be detached by two clips when you have the scope in position.

 

Edited January 30 by paulastro

[CraigT82]

3 hours ago, paulastro said:

  As my diseased hip got worse  ( I had it replaced with a new one on Jan 9th!) I too struggled with my 10inch SS Dob.  Quite by accident I came across the device below on FLOs website.  When I read about it, I was very doubtful  and so it did when it arrived - at first it just looked like a jumble of wide Velcro.

However, it works extremely well, at least for me.  It works very well even if you just use the two straps, the harness round the neck makes it easier if you have to carry the scope any distance.  The harness bit can be detached by two clips when you have the scope in position.

 

Excellent… think I’ll order one of them to aid the manhandling of my 300p. Thanks for posting 

[Alan White]

Sounds like many of us, me included, are falling apart.

Pondering my future way of doing things with 5 ruined discs and a curved spine, not allowing for my two messed up knees.
But having read this thread, it’s clearly a case of finding what works for me, so cheered me up no end.