Time to get a 4” APO?

[Franklin]

9 minutes ago, LDW1 said:

A Porta II or even a Twilight I is all you need for most 100mm refractors for visual use

Yes, the single fork arm design of these types of mounts will handle scopes around the 5kg mark but personally I like to go easy on my mounts and only load them up around 1/2 the payload specs. That way I get a rock solid view with practically zero vibrations when focusing. I've read folks talking about a mounts dampening down time, 1 or 2 seconds or sometimes more and that's fine and I've lived with that over the years, but now I just try and overmount my scopes a little, so when the wind blows or the tripod takes a knock I don't get any shaking especially at high powers.

[LDW1]

2 hours ago, Franklin said:

Yes, the single fork arm design of these types of mounts will handle scopes around the 5kg mark but personally I like to go easy on my mounts and only load them up around 1/2 the payload specs. That way I get a rock solid view with practically zero vibrations when focusing. I've read folks talking about a mounts dampening down time, 1 or 2 seconds or sometimes more and that's fine and I've lived with that over the years, but now I just try and overmount my scopes a little, so when the wind blows or the tripod takes a knock I don't get any shaking especially at high powers.

I ev

Edited February 6, 2023 by LDW1

[Highburymark]

45 minutes ago, LDW1 said:

I have owned an 80mm Equinox with its FPL53 glass and I would love to have a Starfield if I was younger even though I have an NP101 and a half dozen other good refractors, some over 30 yrs. old others newer. That Equinox will hold its own with the best of them save for the 101. Its a nice, nice very capable scope and maybe better for solar WL than most larger refractors, 80mm is a sweet spot for many solar astronomers.

I had an Equinox 80 for a long time. Excellent scope, but I saw a considerable improvement in white light views when I moved to a slower 4” apo.

[LDW1]

2 hours ago, Highburymark said:

I had an Equinox 80 for a long time. Excellent scope, but I saw a considerable improvement in white light views when I moved to a slower 4” apo.

Were y

Edited February 6, 2023 by LDW1

[JeremyS]

1 hour ago, mikeDnight said:

 manhandle lots of refractors 

A man with a handle or a Tak with a handle?

Either way, I like your thinking 😊👍🏻

[LDW1]

6 hours ago, mikeDnight said:

 Takahashi are the premier off the shelf telescope manufacturer that all others desire to emulate. With Takahashi it's all about the optics, which are not actually made by Takahashi but by Canon Optron, but to Takahashi's specifications. Tak themselves are an engineering company, and although they have frozen in time with their style and focuser designs, their thermally compensating lens cells are superb and stand out from most other cell designs. And in a sense you are right - if you can afford a Tak, why not go for it as they are top tier. However, the difference in performance in a side by side comparison might not be as great as you might imagine. The way to look at it is that Takahashi produce some of the best refractors in the world, and so if a Starfield will run alongside a Tak and keep pace with it 95% of the time, then the Starfield is a seriously class act. The planet's are the hardest test for a refractor and will separate the good from the not so good. Several years ago, my friend Paulasto had an earlier version of the Starfield ED with which we did a side by side comparison with a FC100DC. His ED played very happily alongside the Tak on stellar, nebulous, and planetary targets. We observed Mercury low in the east and both scopes showed albedo features with relative ease, while Jupiter was dynamic in both. For me the real killer is Saturn's rings which should appear laser etched and highly detailed in a good 4" on a steady night. I can't remember observing Saturn through Paul's scope but I'd be pretty confident it wouldn't disappoint.

So

Edited February 6, 2023 by LDW1

[Highburymark]

26 minutes ago, LDW1 said:

Were you using a Baader Solar Film filter or a Solar Wedge ? In what way was it better ? I find that with anything over 80mm the glare causes me to use a variable polarizing filter or a no.56-58 green filter and the constantly changing air currents distorting are more noticible in an over 80mm scope.

Baader wedge. Binoviewers, pairs of orthoscopics, GPC and Barcon, mostly. Used same kit for all my scopes. The 80ED was great for 80-140x in mediocre seeing, but the extra grasp of a well figured 4” really delivers WL definition when conditions allow. I tend to do white light at 160x-240x now. You need minimal levels of SA and CA to resolve penumbra detail and granulation to provide sharp views at those powers. And in my environment, you get a lot more out of  a 100mm scope.    
Seeing is different everywhere - what works in one place might not work in another.

[LDW1]

1 hour ago, Highburymark said:

Baader wedge. Binoviewers, pairs of orthoscopics, GPC and Barcon, mostly. Used same kit for all my scopes. The 80ED was great for 80-140x in mediocre seeing, but the extra grasp of a well figured 4” really delivers WL definition when conditions allow. I tend to do white light at 160x-240x now. You need minimal levels of SA and CA to resolve penumbra detail and granulation to provide sharp views at those powers. And in my environment, you get a lot more out of  a 100mm scope.    
Seeing is different everywhere - what works in one place might not work in another.

N

Edited February 6, 2023 by LDW1

[LDW1]

Is 

Edited February 6, 2023 by LDW1

[Highburymark]

5 minutes ago, LDW1 said:

Is the OP getting the info they are looking for ?

Not from you they’re not.  I’m out.

[Littleguy80]

15 minutes ago, LDW1 said:

Is the OP getting the info they are looking for ?

Feel free to share your own experiences with equipment that may be useful but it would be better if you didn’t question the validity of others experiences. I’m sure it’s not your intention but it is taking the fun out of the discussion and ultimately moving the discussion away from my original intent. Hope you understand. 

[Stu]

1 minute ago, LDW1 said:

Not according to the Solar experts, the quality of the views are mainly dependent on the time of day, time of year, heat / air currents etc, etc. not your place or my place. I use several Baader filters and a couple of top notch wedges. 160-240x, resolve penumbra / granulation, you are talking visual, right ? Using a 100mm scope ?  The OP should be very interested on their airline travels.

I can only back up what Highburymark is saying. When seeing is good, the views through a good 4” apo with decent wedge and eyepieces is amazing, almost shocking at times. I use a CoolWedge, GPC, AP Barcon, binoviewers and 25mm converted microscope Zeiss Orthos to get to powers around x200, and the granulation cells become clearly visible with decent seeing and a decent objective low in SA. You can watch them change and evolve over a period of 15 mins or so. The difference in resolution/detail between 80mm and 100mm is quite plain; I have a 76mm as well and whilst granulation is visible, it doesn’t pop like it does in the 100mm.

Location is part of the equation, some places have regular good seeing, others less so, but yes, time of day, height of sun, convection currents etc all play a part.

Finally, I do get saddened by the negative views expressed towards Tak owners. We are enthusiastic about our scopes because we love how they perform, but I haven’t seen one comment saying ‘you MUST have a Tak, everything else is rubbish’, quite the opposite in fact.

I bought mine based on Mike’s reports and have never had reason to regret it. It has been my most used scope since I had it and will likely remain so. Other members who expressed cynicism about reported views of Jupiter through my FC100 quietened down once they had purchased similar scopes.

I have a Vixen Fluorite 102mm f8.8 which is optically its equal, if anything slightly better for high power work, but it is significantly longer and heavier so is impractical for travel and needs a heavier mount.

I’ve also regularly praised the likes of the Heritage 130p and 150p and the fact that they have, on occasion, outperformed the Tak on the likes of Zeta Herc.

So, let’s play nice, value all scopes cheap and expensive and just enjoy the hobby, please.

[LDW1]

31 minutes ago, Stu said:

I can only back up what Highburymark is saying. When seeing is good, the views through a good 4” apo with decent wedge and eyepieces is amazing, almost shocking at times. I use a CoolWedge, GPC, AP Barcon, binoviewers and 25mm converted microscope Zeiss Orthos to get to powers around x200, and the granulation cells become clearly visible with decent seeing and a decent objective low in SA. You can watch them change and evolve over a period of 15 mins or so. The difference in resolution/detail between 80mm and 100mm is quite plain; I have a 76mm as well and whilst granulation is visible, it doesn’t pop like it does in the 100mm.

Location is part of the equation, some places have regular good seeing, others less so, but yes, time of day, height of sun, convection currents etc all play a part.

Finally, I do get saddened by the negative views expressed towards Tak owners. We are enthusiastic about our scopes because we love how they perform, but I haven’t seen one comment saying ‘you MUST have a Tak, everything else is rubbish’, quite the opposite in fact.

I bought mine based on Mike’s reports and have never had reason to regret it. It has been my most used scope since I had it and will likely remain so. Other members who expressed cynicism about reported views of Jupiter through my FC100 quietened down once they had purchased similar scopes.

I have a Vixen Fluorite 102mm f8.8 which is optically its equal, if anything slightly better for high power work, but it is significantly longer and heavier so is impractical for travel and needs a heavier mount.

I’ve also regularly praised the likes of the Heritage 130p and 150p and the fact that they have, on occasion, outperformed the Tak on the likes of Zeta Herc.

So, let’s play nice, value all scopes cheap and expensive and just enjoy the hobby, please.

Please feel free to disagree with all of my experience, I am just putting it out there along with everybody else. I hope in the end the OP gets exactly what they want, they need, they deserve. I was hoping my answers answered what they asked in their original post, nothing more, nothing less but I can try and delete some of my posts. Why talk of solar came to be is beyond me ??

Edited February 6, 2023 by LDW1

[LDW1]

1 hour ago, Littleguy80 said:

Feel free to share your own experiences with equipment that may be useful but it would be better if you didn’t question the validity of others experiences. I’m sure it’s not your intention but it is taking the fun out of the discussion and ultimately moving the discussion away from my original intent. Hope you understand. 

Sorry, I have come to realize I am an outsider to these great forums ! I will gracefully bow out and just observe.

[Littleguy80]

4 hours ago, LDW1 said:

Sorry, I have come to realize I am an outsider to these great forums ! I will gracefully bow out and just observe.

No need to bow out, you clearly have lots of great experience to share. The perils of posting online can often include that our great sense of humours don’t come across as we’d hope. I’ve learnt this lesson the hard way myself. Using emojis can help sometimes. I try to moderate myself by rereading my posts to see if they’re saying what I really intend them to say. I certainly don’t always get it right. 

As I said in my original comment, I don’t think you were intending to upset anyone but unfortunately that did happen. That was the only reason I commented as I did. I hope you can continue to enjoy and participate on SGL. It’s one of the nicest places on the internet in my experience. 

Edited February 7, 2023 by Littleguy80

[jetstream]

36 minutes ago, Littleguy80 said:

Using emojis can help sometimes

Hi Neil!

😀

[jetstream]

Given equal optics a 4" scope will show more detail (planets, moon) than an 80mm scope, seeing considered. Many consider the 4" APO the " goldilocks" scope and with good reason as it can provide excellent views through many conditions that might limit larger scopes IMHO.

With regard to WL solar, aperture rules IMHO but seeing and thermals will hurt relatively minor aperture increases ie 100mm vs 120mm. Under top conditions the 120mm is king- however- there is more time the extra aperture hurts than helps (my thoughts).

Day in and day out a 100mm frac is the best option for WL solar, giving incredible views.

The Quark likes a short FL scope but around f7... this really needs a separate thread to discuss and there are many advanced Ha imagers and viewers here that could offer excellent advice on observing in Ha.

Many good refractors out there and the consistency of many are solid. It appears Tak owners demand performance with little to no sample to sample variation- what I see through mine, you will see through yours, conditions considered. To me a Tak is just a scope, its not magic but it does deliver excellent views of everything, from Barnards Loop to the planets.

Some AP and Tec owners might considered a Tak a bit lower on the food chain... but who cares. Good views are good views, regardless of the name on the telescope.

Gerry

 

[Stu]

10 minutes ago, jetstream said:

Given equal optics a 4" scope will show more detail (planets, moon) than an 80mm scope, seeing considered. Many consider the 4" APO the " goldilocks" scope and with good reason as it can provide excellent views through many conditions that might limit larger scopes IMHO.

With regard to WL solar, aperture rules IMHO but seeing and thermals will hurt relatively minor aperture increases ie 100mm vs 120mm. Under top conditions the 120mm is king- however- there is more time the extra aperture hurts than helps (my thoughts).

Day in and day out a 100mm frac is the best option for WL solar, giving incredible views.

The Quark likes a short FL scope but around f7... this really needs a separate thread to discuss and there are many advanced Ha imagers and viewers here that could offer excellent advice on observing in Ha.

Many good refractors out there and the consistency of many are solid. It appears Tak owners demand performance with little to no sample to sample variation- what I see through mine, you will see through yours, conditions considered. To me a Tak is just a scope, its not magic but it does deliver excellent views of everything, from Barnards Loop to the planets.

Some AP and Tec owners might considered a Tak a bit lower on the food chain... but who cares. Good views are good views, regardless of the name on the telescope.

Gerry

 

Hello Gerry! Welcome back! 👍

[Stu]

5 hours ago, LDW1 said:

Please feel free to disagree with all of my experience

It would be interesting to know what you are disagreeing with, I’m a little confused.

[jetstream]

3 minutes ago, Stu said:

Hello Gerry! Welcome back! 👍

Thanks Stu!

Lots of snowmobiling and fishing happening and at the end of the day a nice outdoor hot tub lol

[Stu]

8 minutes ago, jetstream said:

Thanks Stu!

Lots of snowmobiling and fishing happening and at the end of the day a nice outdoor hot tub lol

What’s not to like? Sounds fabulous 😀

[Moonlit Knight]

9 hours ago, Highburymark said:

Not from you they’re not.  I’m out.

Me too. I was a lurker for a long time, I don’t do social media as I can’t deal with conflict, there is too much of it in the world. Some great advice, mostly I think, but it’s just too much like Facebook or Twitter or something.

Be kind to each other. 

Clear Skies to you all.

[Stu]

1 hour ago, Moonlit Knight said:

Me too. I was a lurker for a long time, I don’t do social media as I can’t deal with conflict, there is too much of it in the world. Some great advice, mostly I think, but it’s just too much like Facebook or Twitter or something.

Be kind to each other. 

Clear Skies to you all.

Whilst some threads do get a little heated, we are very much NOT like other social media platforms. SGL is a nice place to be according to most of our members 👍

[900SL]

Compared to all the other forums I frequent, SGL is a haven of considered opinion and good manners.

The Moto Guzzi forum, by way of example, reduced Chuck Norris to tears in less than a minute and he kicked the door on the way out.

SGL however is akin to floating down the river on a raft woven from dandelions and daisies, listening to a choral ensemble and having ones brow massaged with jasmine. Or by Jasmine, I'm hazy on the details  

[RobertI]

5 hours ago, jetstream said:

Thanks Stu!

Lots of snowmobiling and fishing happening and at the end of the day a nice outdoor hot tub lol

Good to see you posting again Gerry. 🙂