BBC - huge drop in number of stars that can be seen naked eye

[DaveL59]

Light pollution: Huge fall in stars that can be seen with naked eye - BBC News

For sure I've noticed over the past 6 years living here that the sky isn't black any more, just a grey and of course less visible stars. Quite likely I've moved down a bortle level

[The Admiral]

I think that is very sad for future populations. Problem is, it seems to be difficult enough trying to deal with global warming, it is hard to see much effort being devoted to this, even if there are in fact ramifications for energy consumption. I suppose at a national level, it should be possible to reverse the trend, but don't hold your breath!

Ian

[Carbon Brush]

Yes totally agree, the black is no longer black. Thanks LED lighting.
At least low pressure sodium orange could be filtered.

I have been trying on numerous occasions over the years to get my regional light pollution agency, Nottinghamshire County Council, to see sense.
Surplus street lights, road signs with superfluous illumination, etc. etc. They are completely bonkers when implementing a lot of their schemes.
I have thought about trying again now we are all paying much bigger electricity bills and our council tax is going up - yet again.
Then again after 20+ years of trying to make them see sense.....

[westmarch]

What with global warming,  is it not ironic that we have created our own twilight?

John

Edited January 20, 2023 by westmarch

[Mr Spock]

The LED lights here are horrific. I used to be able to see the milky way from my back garden which faced away from Sheffield. Now all I have is milky grey. Mag 4.5 on a good night 😡

[DaveL59]

At least around here the LED street lights have been dimmed somewhat, likely because they were so bright it was like going to bed with a searchlight aimed at the window. But overall the skies are a murky grey at best nowadays. Of course the brexit lorry park won't have helped me there and nowt I can do about that...

Edited January 20, 2023 by DaveL59

[GrumpiusMaximus]

4 minutes ago, DaveL59 said:

At least around here the LED street lights have been dimmed somewhat, likely because they were so bright it was like going to be with a searchlight aimed at the window. But overall the skies are a murky grey at best nowadays. Of course the brexit lorry park won't have helped me there and nowt I can do about that...

Ashford?  My condolences.  When I used to live in Charing Heath it was still good out there and there are plenty of spots up around the A20 where you could set up...

[markse68]

Good that it’s mainstream news- heard it on the radio last night- maybe something might get done 🤞

Mark

[DaveL59]

8 minutes ago, GrumpiusMaximus said:

Ashford?  My condolences.  When I used to live in Charing Heath it was still good out there and there are plenty of spots up around the A20 where you could set up...

that's a distance to my SE so not on my doorstep, thankfully, but I can see the light dome esp on nights where there's moisture in the air. I'm a couple miles north of the M2 so of course those lights don't help either.

[Jonk]

14 minutes ago, markse68 said:

Good that it’s mainstream news- heard it on the radio last night- maybe something might get done 🤞

Mark

Highly unlikely, this story is repeated annually.

[wulfrun]

Depressing isn’t it. We make lighting more efficient, so we use more of it instead of utilising the efficiency to cut power & cost. Maybe we ought to have banned outdoor LED lighting rather than banning the old-fashioned "bulbs"?

I've had local streetlighting largely replaced with LED. I'd say it's overall slightly better-aimed but it's brighter, not filterable and the point-source LEDs have worse glare.

Time for some standards to be introduced for ALL oudoor lighting? Not holding my breath!

[Franklin]

Bring back power-cuts!

[Mr Spock]

I remember the power cuts from the '70s. I looked up at Orion and was totally gobsmacked. A lot of constellations were almost unrecognisable there were so many stars. That's what Bortle 1 looks like - zero light from anywhere.

[Pixies]

I feel in the minority to say that around here, the skies have darkened since the LED streetlights went in. They are very well aimed and shielded.

That is assuming you aren't under one! Otherwise they are blinding.

 

I'm going to contact one of our green councillors to see if the council still has any plans to dim them or switch-off later in the night. The central control of the lamps was being touted as a great benefit when they were originally going in.

[The Admiral]

37 minutes ago, wulfrun said:

standards

Yeah, so that they can be relaxed later by the government to aid profitability. Just look at the lip-service paid by the water authorities when it comes to sewage discharge. Don't get me started 🤐. I'll get me coat.

Ian

[UKDiver]

12 minutes ago, The Admiral said:

Yeah, so that they can be relaxed later by the government to aid profitability. Just look at the lip-service paid by the water authorities when it comes to sewage discharge. Don't get me started 🤐. I'll get me coat.

Ian

The UK water industry is regulated to be cheap yet keep the companies financially healthy. You're getting what the regulators will let you pay for and are resourced to enforce.

Edited January 20, 2023 by UKDiver

[Andy ES]

I think Basildon council are contemplating turning off the street lights at midnight again, like they did a few years ago to save money.

It made a big difference for a while, until everyone complained that they were frightened of being mugged or burgled.

Thats Basildon for you....☹️

[DaveS]

Yep, it's the monkey brain. As soon as it gets dark it starts running around in little circles gibbering about leopards.

[Andy ES]

42 minutes ago, Franklin said:

Bring back power-cuts!

Or just turn the street lights off for a bit when all the “normal” folk have gone to bed 😂

[Mr H in Yorkshire]

I am entirely pessimistic about any return to darkness. When I moved to my small Dales town in 1988, getting home from work I could get out of the car and see the milky way! Now all I see is the stark shadows and glare from the all night security lighting on the school opposite, the social hall next below me on the hill and worst of all, the AONB office across and up the road. This area of outstanding natural beauty is not so at night but my polite letter, after they had installed the lights, never even got a reply. The policies that result in these lighting installations are stupid and insensitive - security lights in an area that literally has no crime.

My only good fortune is having a very good dark site 30 minutes drive away but I do regret the way things are.

[DaveS]

It doesn't help that certain "newspapers" (Gutter rags more like) have long known that fear sells papers and pump out headlines cranking up the fear.

"We'll all be murdered in our beds" by the current bogeymen.

[Carbon Brush]

We are, as expected, concentrating on the (minority of odd people) astronomy viewpoint and touching on (fashionable) energy waste.

But there is so much more......

Some on SGL have asked (individually) for councils to put shields on street lights.
On the north side of Cambridge I remember seeing a whole road with shields to keep light out of bedroom windows. Incompetents specifying light fittings?

Recently while leaving work after dark, I heard unexpected birdsong from outside the farm buildings next door.
The (don't get me started) farmer has ultra bright insecurity lights easily visible from 2 miles away. What a way to advertise stuff worth nicking🙄
Nobody had told the birds in the hedges and trees it was way past their bedtime.

Going back a long time I was in one of the big squares in London. It had a lot of trees containing incandescent lights.
Yes late at night there was a lot of bird noise.
How much was 'aren't these lights lovely and warm on a cold night' and how much 'It is a long day today' I have no idea.

In my area, where LED lights have been fitted it has been new heads on existing posts, or new posts in the existing locations. No thought to actual requirements.
The narrower angle of LED fittings means bright pools of light with dimmer (but still adequate) regions between.
How long before some numpty at county hall thinks we need to fill the gaps?

 

 

[geoflewis]

Citizen scientists report global rapid reductions in the visibility of stars from 2011 to 2022 | Science

Here's a more detailed report in Science mag, which I think, amongst other things, shows that LEDs, however well directed, aren't going to be the solution to LP that some anticipated.....

[Andy ES]

57 minutes ago, Carbon Brush said:

Recently while leaving work after dark, I heard unexpected birdsong from outside the farm buildings next door.

The Robins sing all night every night thanks to my neighbours security light

[Jules Tohpipi]

I had a complete break from observing for 10 years and coming back noticed I could barely see the Pleiades unaided anymore from the same location. Whereas before it really stood out. Thought it was solely due to my ageing eyes. But maybe the LP is the bigger effect, even though there's been no expansion to the town. As much as I like looking through telescopes, I equally like marvelling at the wonder of it all with just my eyes - but that pleasure has now mostly disappeared from my garden.