Eyepiece Deliberations

[Stu1smartcookie]

As i have probably the worst collection of Eyepieces imaginable i am going to , albeit slowly , build up a decent collection ... starting today !!

I have a couple in mind ... a baader Hyperion 8mm or 10mm . Having NO experience with decent EPs i hope that the Hyperions will give great views from my two small scopes , a 420mm Evo 72ed and a 102 mm Mak . Any views ( no pun intended ) much appreciated on these EPs . I also like the look of Explore SCientific EPs . 

Before everyone points me to EPs costing 500 pounds plus please acknowlwedge i am married and i want to stay that way 🤣

Stu 

[M40]

I am going to suggest the Baader Hyperion zoom, my goto eyepiece. Plus there are lots of adapters available and a matched barlow so a very flexible piece of kit

[banjaxed]

BST Starguider eyepieces have a good reputation without breaking the bank and I particularly like the OVL Nirvana.

[Stu1smartcookie]

 

3 minutes ago, M40 said:

I am going to suggest the Baader Hyperion zoom, my goto eyepiece. Plus there are lots of adapters available and a matched barlow so a very flexible piece of kit

yes its a serious consideration ... i only avoided it due to the fact that my only experience of a zoom EP wasnt a pleasant one. Although if i am honest it was a very cheap and not so cheerful EP !

 

[Stu1smartcookie]

Just now, banjaxed said:

BST Starguider eyepieces have a good reputation without breaking the bank and I particularly like the OVL Nirvana.

Yes  the BST's  get a good write up... and they would be good for planetary viewing with the Mak ... good choice and half the cost of the baader hyperions . Unfortunately the Nirvana isnt in stock at the moment ( Widescreen Centre ) although i must admit they were high on my list . 

[Tiny Clanger]

Stu, I've been tiptoeing delicately around the eyepiece minefield myself for most of this year 🙂 , I like the (inevitably well recommended , barginaceous)  BSTs, but wondered what a step up might look like , and if it would be worthwhile .

Being aware that the 15/16/17mm eps were my favourites in my dob, and that it's f5-ness made fairly big calls on low mag, wide field eps , I took a punt on an OVL Nirvana 16mm , 82 degrees , under £100. Upon using it I find it is sharper, clearer and altogether more lovely to use than anything I'd used before, (BSTs, plossls , TMB clones, some cheap zoom I bought second hand   ) and  the wide field has become, over a few sessions, something I find I really enjoy. A dangerously expensive discovery !

When there are new stocks, or a sensibly priced second hand one comes up for sale, I will buy a 7mm Nirvana. Yes, the ES 82mm would be nice , I'm sure, but at a premium. And they are out of stock too !

Heather

[Dean Hale]

Hi Stu

Views from another amateur. I have the 17mm Hyperion. It's nice, although i view F8 and above and most reviews are not favourable towards the Hyperion's for fast scopes. It's heavy too at around 400 grams.

I don't wear glasses and do like my eyeballs pressed up as close as can be nor do i mind the limited field of view some eyepieces have - in some case i prefer this. I really like the Televue plossls - stupidly sold the set and probably will purchase again.  The 10mm and 18mm Baader Classics are superb and only £50. A little wider fov are the BST's. I also have the StellaMira 25mm - £89 and to my eyes - mighty fine. All seem to be in demand so you can sell on if needs be without considerable loss.

I have the 17.5mm morpheus and it's stupendous.

I'm loathe to shell out £300+ on an eyepiece without trying first and there are some excellent bargains in the Ad section. I've just picked up an excellent condition 13mm Tele Vue Nagler for a brilliant price. 
 

[wookie1965]

The BST`s are a real jump they punch well above their weight and price. I had the all from 5mm to 25mm I still own 3 the 8mm 15mm which I think is outstanding and the 25mm I have used them in F5 scopes both a 6" and a 8" and now use them in my Fracs two of which are F10 and 1 of F9.3. They are very good I will never sell them.

[Stu1smartcookie]

9 minutes ago, Tiny Clanger said:

, (BSTs, plossls , TMB clones, some cheap zoom I bought second hand   ) and  the wide field has become, over a few sessions, something I find I really enjoy. A dangerously expensive discovery !

Yeah that cheap zoom wasn't the best , was it , Heather ?... I am so "over " the cheap EPs ... when one thinks how important decent EPs are i should have been "over " it a long time ago . Having said that , i am sure there are less expensive ones that punch way above their weight . 

[Stu1smartcookie]

13 minutes ago, Dean Hale said:

Views from another amateur. I have the 17mm Hyperion. It's nice, although i view F8 and above and most reviews are not favourable towards the Hyperion's for fast scopes.

Thats an interesting thought , Dean ... i suppose my Mak would be ok with the hyperion . 

 

7 minutes ago, wookie1965 said:

The BST`s are a real jump they punch well above their weight and price. I had the all from 5mm to 25mm I still own 3 the 8mm 15mm which I think is outstanding and the 25mm I have used them in F5 scopes both a 6" and a 8" and now use them in my Fracs two of which are F10 and 1 of F9.3. They are very good I will never sell them.

Another vote for the BST's ... Wookie . To be honest though i am even more confused now than when i started the thread . lol . 

 

[HiveIndustries]

I kind of approached "wanting to stay married" a bit differently. A single purchase that lasts forever is way less stressful I feel than trying to convince my wife to always let me barter and trade always spending in the process over the longer term. I'm currently sporting a 12" Lightbridge (1524mm, 305mm, F5) so my personal choices are going to be very personal and different than yours and also my seeing conditions. I wound up springing for a TeleVue 17mm Type 4 Nagler which in non-yank monies is probably way over your budget and a PowerMate 2x to go with it. I can keep everything 2" and zoom in as far as I'd ever want to with my seeing conditions and never feel wanting for better glass. (just more!)

If I had gone out and spent hundreds on a bunch of used Meade QX 4000 series or something based on what others have to say I knew I'd be pretty unhappy with them relatively quickly and then trying to go the next step, then the next step, it's just a never ending symphony that winds up costing (me at least) a lot more money in every hobby I ever get into.

Took a lot of trying to bargain-hobby salt water aquariums, drones, etc. for me to understand investing in the right things that hold their value and that you won't want to swap is probably the way to go. For me that brought me to the cheapest 12" dob I could find while buying what I consider to be top quality glass that can cover 2 different mags on a quality barlow.

If you're at all like me, I'd consider springing for whatever piece you know you'll keep the longest. (hopefully it doesn't wind up as much as mine!!! lol)

Edited October 20, 2021 by HiveIndustries

[Dean Hale]

6 minutes ago, Stu1smartcookie said:

Thats an interesting thought , Dean ... i suppose my Mak would be ok with the hyperion . 

 

Should be. Some recent comments here. For my use it's fine and extremely well built and adaptable - although i've never taken advantage of this.

As you probably know FLO offer a discount on the BST's  when you purchase more than 1.

[Stu1smartcookie]

Actually Dean has brought up a really good point about EPs that are better for longer focal length scopes and vice versa ... looks like i could be in for another night of YouTube reviews !!!!

The wife is already fed up of British TV ... i'm sure she thinks Astronomy videos are the only programs we have .lol

[Stu1smartcookie]

2 minutes ago, HiveIndustries said:

If you're at all like me, I'd consider springing for whatever piece you know you'll keep the longest. (hopefully it doesn't wind up as much as mine!!! lol)

LOL thats the idea ! i saw the words Tele Vue and shuddered . 

[Dean Hale]

1 minute ago, Stu1smartcookie said:

a really good point about EPs that are better for longer focal length scopes and vice versa

at the limit of my knowledge now. I'll let the experts chip in. 🙂
 

[wookie1965]

12 minutes ago, Stu1smartcookie said:

Thats an interesting thought , Dean ... i suppose my Mak would be ok with the hyperion . 

 

Another vote for the BST's ... Wookie . To be honest though i am even more confused now than when i started the thread . lol . 

 

Maybe this will help a bit.

[Tiny Clanger]

1 minute ago, Stu1smartcookie said:

Yeah that cheap zoom wasn't the best , was it , Heather ?... I am so "over " the cheap EPs ... when one thinks how important decent EPs are i should have been "over " it a long time ago . Having said that , i am sure there are less expensive ones that punch way above their weight . 

It's an adequate paperweight ....

Not sure how you feel about wide field (and I suspect it's one of  those, 'never had it, never missed it' things ) but if a plossl-ish FOV doesn't bother you, the Baader orthos are £50 each , or a set of 3 plus extras (plossl, barlow, turret thingy) for under £200. They get a lot of good reviews from some folk, but having acquired a 6mm and used it a fair bit, I don't think they are ideal for me. The 10mm has had some rave reviews , I might give one a try if the opportunity presents itself , you never know.

I've been looking around to see if there is anything in stock new at a comparable price and FOV and quality to the Nirvana for the 7/8/9mm ish sort of range (my next most used ep )  and .... there isn't.  My BST 8mm  and 12mm are going nowhere, mind, they are good in my 127mak, the heritage dob and 'frac.s , but I do hanker after some more of that 82 degree viewing window ...

If you are thinking  just of a long focal length 'scope , and in 1.25" barrel, then had you considered the Celestron Luminos range ? https://www.firstlightoptics.com/celestron-eyepieces/celestron-luminos-eyepieces.html

I'd not read much reference to them, and only noticed when amazon suggested them to me ( with an instalment plan ! ) . I spent an evening searching out reviews , which in the end came down to 'nice in a long focal length mak , edge brightening on the 2" barrel ones, unfashionably large, a bit cheaper than ES . Not something I'll be buying, as it needs to work in the f5 dob as well as the mak. , but interesting.

Heather

[Dean Hale]

16 minutes ago, Tiny Clanger said:

If you are thinking  just of a long focal length 'scope , and in 1.25" barrel, then had you considered the Celestron Luminos range ? https://www.firstlightoptics.com/celestron-eyepieces/celestron-luminos-eyepieces.html

I'd not read much reference to them, and only noticed when amazon suggested them to me ( with an instalment plan ! ) . I spent an evening searching out reviews , which in the end came down to 'nice in a long focal length mak , edge brightening on the 2" barrel ones, unfashionably large, a bit cheaper than ES . Not something I'll be buying, as it needs to work in the f5 dob as well as the mak. , but interesting.

I also got the same offer from Amazon in June. A good price at £105 (seems to fluctuate between £100 - £140) for the 15mm so went ahead and purchased. They are massive but the sliding action of the retractable eyecup is a delight. I find it rather good and haven't sold it on. Yes some edge brightness if viewing the moon but for the price i'm happy.

[Dean Hale]

Forgot about these. APM flat fields. Next on my list and reasonable prices and very good reviews

https://astrograph.net/epages/www_astrograph_net.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/www_astrograph_net/Categories/Shop/Eyepieces__Accessories/Binocular_Eyepieces

[Zermelo]

If you haven't tried the Starguiders yet, I suggest borrowing/buying one. They will outperform most others at that price and will set the bar for your next upgrade. If you got the 8mm or 12mm, you could get reasonable magnifications in your Mak and still get wider fields in the frac, so you could assess it on a variety of targets. Or if you have a decent 2x barlow, the 12mm will be good with that too.

I bought four of the Starguiders and then started experimented a bit. I filled the gap between 8mm and 12mm with a 10mm Celestron Ultima Edge. I like it; I've found it to perform very like the BST range - it's also a 60 degree, five element design - so in that respect it did the job - but it costs well over twice the price of a Starguider. To my (admittedly not-that-experienced) eye, I can't see any visual difference to warrant even half the extra money. It's also possible, of course, that my scopes aren't good enough to show up any additional quality in the Ultima. With limited kit/experience, it can be hard to identify the weakest link in the optical train.

I've also tried an ES 82° 6.7mm, partly to see how the wider field feels, and partly to see if the ES premium is manifested visibly. I do like the wider field, both in terms of the apparent view and the larger amount of sky it delivers. I do find the eye relief to be quite tight, in the sense that I need to have my eye right against the EP, with the cup folded back, in order to see to the edges. I get the impression from reviews that other extrawide EPs are a bit more forgiving in that respect. Does the ES give a superior image to the Starguiders? I've spent at least twenty sessions comparing them, and in some cases I found that it did. It can sometimes deliver a little more contrast, with a little less scatter. I've found that the ES 6.7mm will sometimes split tight, brighter doubles that the Starguider 5mm doesn't - it seems to bring the starlight to a slightly tighter focus at higher magnifications. But the odd thing is that it's not entirely consistent. Sometimes the BSTs will perform slightly better. Is the ES worth the extra money? I'm not decided.

And then there's a different direction - simpler design, possibly sharper details and contrast - but at the expense of field of view. I've had a BCO 10mm and 6mm for a short time, not long enough to compare them properly against the others. They're around the same price as the Starguiders, and may yet outperform them for on-axis details, but I'm still happy to have started with the BSTs.

[Stu]

2 hours ago, Stu1smartcookie said:

Actually Dean has brought up a really good point about EPs that are better for longer focal length scopes and vice versa

There’s no real vice versa. Some eyepieces are well corrected at fast focal ratios (and it’s the focal ratio that’s important, not necessarily the focal length), and some aren’t. An eyepiece that’s good in a fast scope will be good in a slow scope too generally.

With short focal length scopes you can struggle with field curvature in wide field eyepieces. It’s quite a confusing area as some eyepieces seem to correct for field curvature and others accentuate it, depending on whether their own curvature cancels or reinforces that of the scope.

I wouldn’t get sucked into the Televue/Pentax etc straight away. I think it’s great to build up to these things over time, so that you appreciate the improvements. Buying and selling used kit minimises losses and allows you to try out lots of different types. Some suit some people but not others, so it’s a very personal thing; there’s no right or wrong answer a lot of the time, if sometime works for you, that’s what counts.

I would echo the thoughts on the Hyperionsnin that according to all the reviews I’ve seen they don’t perform well in terms of edge correction in faster scopes.

BSTs do get great reviews and are excellent value. If you wanted to try a decent zoom, the Hyperflex 7.2mm to 21.5mm is good quality and not silly expensive.

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/ovl-eyepieces/hyperflex-72mm-215mm-eyepiece.html

[Stu1smartcookie]

2 hours ago, Tiny Clanger said:

Not sure how you feel about wide field

I really do want a nice widefield eyepiece ... But that can wait as I really would like to get a high power and mid range first. Thanks for the suggestion for the celestron. I have just seen a rather good review of it, Dean and Heather 

1 hour ago, Zermelo said:

I've also tried an ES 82° 6.7mm, partly to see how the wider field feels

Hi, thanks for the heads up on the ES 82...I am seriously looking at one of those.

It really does look like the BST have a good following.

 

[Stu1smartcookie]

43 minutes ago, Stu said:

I wouldn’t get sucked into the Televue/Pentax etc straight away

Stu, I certainly won't be doing that🤣.... Thank you for the advice

[ScouseSpaceCadet]

Eyepieces costing less than £100 I have not replaced over the last few years and don't feel a desperate need to swap. Although after my experience with the Vixen SLV 4mm, replacing the BST 5mm with a Vixen is tempting...

All used in f5-f7 refractors and a 102 maksutov:

BST 5mm

BST 8mm

BST 12mm

OVL Nirvana ES 7mm

OVL Nirvana ES 16mm

The Nirvana 7mm is my Mak (realistic) high power eyepiece. Lunar observing at 185x is a treat with that ep and the little Mak.

The 16mm is a nice medium power DSO ep. It replaced a BST 15mm.

 

Edited October 20, 2021 by ScouseSpaceCadet
SLV

[badhex]

One more vote here for the BSTs Stu. I have the 5mm and 3.2mm (although the 3.2mm gets way less use). Primary use case is good quality but lightweight for travel kit and not breaking the bank - they do very well on all three counts. Strongly considering picking up a few more in the range.

Aaaalll of that said though..... I will give 100 votes to the Morpheus range, in particular the 17.5mm which is my favourite eyepiece of all time. It is in constant use and I wouldn't observe without it. Bit more on the pricey side but I genuinely cannot see you regretting the purchase, and it seems that they should work very well at all F ratios up to about F4 (according to many SGL experts). Can't remember if I've seen you post in the Morpheus thread but it's worth reading for more details on specific FLs.

I also recently purchased the 4.5mm although I have not had much time with it yet. I wanted a high power, good quality EP for my ZS73 when not travelling, for which it works very well. Crystal clear views of Jupiter last week at around 96x.

Edited October 20, 2021 by badhex