Tak TOEs 👉 Jupiter 🥂

[jetstream]

21 minutes ago, John said:

There were rumours when they were launched that the Tak Abbe Orthos might be from the same manufacturer as the Fujiyama's - I'm not sure if that has been confirmed or otherwise now ?

My older Tak orthos look and perform like my Fujis but with an eyecup. I wonder if Tak switched their supplier for these new orthos? Why the new name? I have 2 18mm's ,2 12.5mm older Tak orthos and they are excellent.

[Deadlake]

A BBHS T2 mirror diagonal turned up today, so I hope the skies will clear soon and I'll be able to get the best possible view of Jupiter with a TOE 4 mind a LZOS 130mm/F6. 

Question, would it be better to get a TOE 3mm or and Q Extender and increase the focal length of my scope? I suspect the Q Extender would bring all my Vixen HR's into use...

[JeremyS]

5 minutes ago, Deadlake said:

A BBHS T2 mirror diagonal turned up today, so I hope the skies will clear soon and I'll be able to get the best possible view of Jupiter with a TOE 4 mind a LZOS 130mm/F6. 

Question, would it be better to get a TOE 3mm or and Q Extender and increase the focal length of my scope? I suspect the Q Extender would bring all my Vixen HR's into use...

I had similar thoughts about the Q with my TSA 120. Since I got the Q, I’ve actually left it installed all the time. Which means I’m not us using my shorter FL eyepieces.

The Q is transparent, I.e you don’t notice it’s there. And it’s very comfortable to use

It also works well with my Zeiss binoviewer. And the 2-inch BBHS

Edited September 28, 2021 by JeremyS

[Stu]

20 minutes ago, Deadlake said:

I suspect the Q Extender would bring all my Vixen HR's into use...

I would think pushing the power even higher if it mean the opposite? Which HRs do you have?

[Deadlake]

11 minutes ago, Stu said:

I would think pushing the power even higher if it mean the opposite? Which HRs do you have?

All of them. 😀 On the moon they work very well, on Jupiter not so well. To be honest detail in Vixen HR 3.4 is similar to TOE 4 mm using a SD103S, the 4mm has a smaller image. using LZOS Vixen HR the image is larger but start to lose belt detail on Jupiter, moon I see more detail using HR.  
I suspect moving country to get better seeing would help, I need more clear nights to get an idea of what works best....  

Edited September 28, 2021 by Deadlake

[Deadlake]

24 minutes ago, JeremyS said:

Which means I’m not us using my shorter FL eyepieces

What is the shortest EP you are now using with Q extender?

The other use of a Q extender is that for some EP's it will flatten the field at the edge, useful in a AP130GTX and hopefully a LZOS 130/F6.  

[JeremyS]

3 minutes ago, Deadlake said:

What is the shortest EP you are now using with Q extender?

The other use of a Q extender is that for some EP's it will flatten the field at the edge, useful in a AP130GTX and hopefully a LZOS 130/F6.  

On Jupiter I’ve been using a 7mm eyepiece. That’s plenty on this planet. Perhaps even a bit much.

[Deadlake]

2 minutes ago, JeremyS said:

On Jupiter I’ve been using a 7mm eyepiece. That’s plenty on this planet. Perhaps even a bit much.

Very interesting, what about on the Moon?

[John]

One interesting thing that threads like this throw up to my mind is whether some eyepieces have particular target strengths. So you test eyepieces X and Y on, say, Jupiter one evening and conclude that X is a slightly better performer on that target than Y. On another night, under similar conditions and with the same scope, Saturn is the primary target and the laurels go to eyepiece Y over X, by another small margin. Different targets have slightly different needs to get the best from them ? - I've found something along these lines when comparing eyepieces for this forum and it does lead to some challenges in drawing conclusions, I can tell you !

By the by, on Jupiter, for the past couple of sessions (which happen to have been with my LZOS 130 F/9.2) I've found the Pentax XW 5mm (240x) has been my optimum eyepiece.

 

 

 

Edited September 28, 2021 by John

[Highburymark]

Jupiter’s colours have been so muted this year - that’s meant keeping powers at or under 200x has brought out the bands more. But it’s well worth trying higher mags if the image stays sharp 

[JeremyS]

31 minutes ago, Deadlake said:

Very interesting, what about on the Moon?

I don’t look at the Moon 😳

[jetstream]

33 minutes ago, John said:

is whether some eyepieces have particular target strengths

I think this is true and I reach for certain eyepieces for Jupiter vs Saturn for instance. I like a bit warmer tone on Jupiter vs Saturn for some reason.  Mind you the TSA120 seems to not care about this- which brings something else up. After hearing many high end frac talks ie this frac is better than that one on Jupiter (for instance) etc I think the scope (and diag) can play a major role in what eyepiece is reached for.

[markse68]

3 hours ago, Highburymark said:

Fujis might be the safer bet ortho-wise at the moment. Thread on CN showing quality control problems with some recent Tak abbes. Although both Tak and Fujiyama lines appear to be made in the same factory, haven’t seen any complaints about the quality of Fujiyamas.

Check your fujiyamas  though when you get them- my 7mm i only noticed too late has a chipped eye lens- doesn’t seem to affect performance as it’s at the edge but it got through qc and bugs me

Mark

Edited September 28, 2021 by markse68

[John]

15 hours ago, markse68 said:

Check your fujiyamas  though when you get them- my 7mm i only noticed too late has a chipped eye lens- doesn’t seem to affect performance as it’s at the edge but it got through qc and bugs me

Mark

I got a new Baader Genuine Ortho a few years back which had touching lens elements. This only showed itsef as the target object passed through a small central zone of the field of view when it suddenly went blurred and then went back to sharp again. Took me a while to work out what was wrong there

Luckily the eyepiece was a "loaner" from FLO for testing so was quickly exchanged.

[Stu]

8 minutes ago, John said:

I got a new Baader Genuine Ortho a few years back which had touching lens elements. This only showed itsef as the target object passed through a small central zone of the field of view when it suddenly went blurred and then went back to sharp again. Took me a while to work out what was wrong there

Luckily the eyepiece was a "loaner" from FLO for testing so was quickly exchanged.

I have a 7mm just like this John, need to take it apart and see if I can improve it. I think I bought it used, can’t recall.

[Highburymark]

Lots of atmospheric colour on Jupiter this evening. 
Is anyone using an ADC successfully? They look like another great lump of metal to add to the eyepiece stack, but are they effective for the planets?

[jetstream]

1 hour ago, Highburymark said:

Lots of atmospheric colour on Jupiter this evening. 
Is anyone using an ADC successfully? They look like another great lump of metal to add to the eyepiece stack, but are they effective for the planets?

An eyepiece with a built in barlow or the use of a barlow  might make things worse when conditions are like this.

[Louis D]

16 hours ago, Highburymark said:

Lots of atmospheric colour on Jupiter this evening. 
Is anyone using an ADC successfully? They look like another great lump of metal to add to the eyepiece stack, but are they effective for the planets?

I've not used one myself since I'm about 22 degrees latitude south of you, so planets generally get high enough for AD to be a non-issue if I wait for them to be due south.  However, I've read many reports that they work really well.  Keep in mind that they require a fair amount of in-focus, so check how much you have left with your favorite eyepieces at best focus before buying an ADC.

[John]

Interesting post on the CN forum from @Don Pensack which included this:

"If you're a planetary observer, worry less about the eyepiece and more about seeing.  There are ways you can maximize seeing, and it's ironic that so few planetary observers pay attention to them.

• don't set up the scope on concrete or asphalt.  Choose dirt or grass.
• use external cooling to cool the instrument and optics to the ambient temperature BEFORE viewing.
• make sure the instrument is collimated.
• never look at a planet above the roof of a house or building.  Heat waves rise and distort the image.
• never observe on the lee side of a mountain.  If in the mountains, choose the windward side.
• choose a period about 2-3 days after the passage of a front so the air movement is slow and the air a big stagnant.
• never look at a planet below 30° off the horizon if possible.  Wait for it to rise.  If it never gets that high, look only when it crosses the meridian.
• if in a very broad valley, try the middle of the valley over the edges.  Air flow will be smoother and more laminar.
• in most places, observe later in the night.  The midnight to dawn period is usually more stable.
• observe often to catch good seeing conditions.
• watch for more than just a few minutes when looking through the eyepiece.  You may get short periods of much better seeing.
• you needn't bother much with dark adaptation, but it is helpful to shield both the eye and the eyepiece from peripheral light.
• Fog on the optics will destroy detail, so take steps to prevent optics fogging.
• dust on the optics will destroy detail by scattering more light, so be sure the optics are clean.  Especially eyepieces.
• take steps to maximize contrast in the scope, which includes a shroud on a truss scope and a light shield extension at the top on most newtonians.

By maximizing your options, you will get better seeing and see more planetary detail."

Here is the link to the whole post in the thread on that forum for completeness:

https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/783415-best-tele-vue-for-planets/?p=11389399

 

Edited October 1, 2021 by John

[Alan White]

10 hours ago, John said:

Interesting post on the CN forum from @Don Pensack which included this:

"If you're a planetary observer, worry less about the eyepiece and more about seeing.  There are ways you can maximize seeing, and it's ironic that so few planetary observers pay attention to them.

• don't set up the scope on concrete or asphalt.  Choose dirt or grass.
• use external cooling to cool the instrument and optics to the ambient temperature BEFORE viewing.
• make sure the instrument is collimated.
• never look at a planet above the roof of a house or building.  Heat waves rise and distort the image.
• never observe on the lee side of a mountain.  If in the mountains, choose the windward side.
• choose a period about 2-3 days after the passage of a front so the air movement is slow and the air a big stagnant.
• never look at a planet below 30° off the horizon if possible.  Wait for it to rise.  If it never gets that high, look only when it crosses the meridian.
• if in a very broad valley, try the middle of the valley over the edges.  Air flow will be smoother and more laminar.
• in most places, observe later in the night.  The midnight to dawn period is usually more stable.
• observe often to catch good seeing conditions.
• watch for more than just a few minutes when looking through the eyepiece.  You may get short periods of much better seeing.
• you needn't bother much with dark adaptation, but it is helpful to shield both the eye and the eyepiece from peripheral light.
• Fog on the optics will destroy detail, so take steps to prevent optics fogging.
• dust on the optics will destroy detail by scattering more light, so be sure the optics are clean.  Especially eyepieces.
• take steps to maximize contrast in the scope, which includes a shroud on a truss scope and a light shield extension at the top on most newtonians.

By maximizing your options, you will get better seeing and see more planetary detail."

Here is the link to the whole post in the thread on that forum for completeness:

https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/783415-best-tele-vue-for-planets/?p=11389399

 

I am sure that all Don says is correct,
but If I do these things, then I could only observe about 1 night per year!
 

[Louis D]

1 hour ago, Alan White said:

I am sure that all Don says is correct,
but If I do these things, then I could only observe about 1 night per year!
 

Unless you move to a more optimal place to observe to increase your chances.

[F15Rules]

On 28/09/2021 at 22:00, Deadlake said:

I suspect moving country to get better seeing would help

..er, don't move to the UK then!😂🤣😂

Dave

[Alan White]

14 minutes ago, Louis D said:

Unless you move to a more optimal place to observe to increase your chances.

I plan to but not until I retire, and even then it is a maybe.

[Don Pensack]

One of the main points is:

• observe often to catch good seeing conditions.

And 11 or 12 of those things I mentioned can be done if you live in a city.

Traveling to get to better seeing may not be likely, but most of those things people pay little attention to, yet they affect seeing.

[Alan White]

3 minutes ago, Don Pensack said:

One of the main points is:

• observe often to catch good seeing conditions.

And 11 or 12 of those things I mentioned can be done if you live in a city.

Traveling to get to better seeing may not be likely, but most of those things people pay little attention to, yet they affect seeing.

Don, now that is something I do try and do.