Takahashi FC-100 and FC-76 advice

[JeremyS]

20 minutes ago, mikeDnight said:

I'm not a fan of retractable dew shields. If the shield is retracted over a cold wet tube, it can potentially introduce moisture into the lens cell if the shield is capped. So I'll often bring the fully extended DZ back into the house, allowing it to dry off naturally. Retractable shields aren't a game changer for me at least. And even the superb DZ, for me at least, isn't world's apart from any of the other FC's in the series. The best scope out of the bunch will be the one that's used most. They're all brilliant!

Retractable dew shields have revolutionised my cloudy nights, though. 
Great for Tak OCD.

😊

[Commanderfish]

I think I'd prefer the slightly shorter FL of the DC over the DZ as the fields are that little bit wider. I do prefer the look and feel of the feather touch too. So I think these scopes are all good solutions but I'll probably go for the DC and Feathertouch.

I also suspect the DC and FT is going to be a little lighter and slightly easier to mount stably.

Really for portability they should have made a 100dcu!

[JeremyS]

2 hours ago, Commanderfish said:

I think I'd prefer the slightly shorter FL of the DC over the DZ as the fields are that little bit wider. I do prefer the look and feel of the feather touch too. So I think these scopes are all good solutions but I'll probably go for the DC and Feathertouch.

I also suspect the DC and FT is going to be a little lighter and slightly easier to mount stably.

Really for portability they should have made a 100dcu!

Hacksaw?

Actually, John Handleby is handy with hacking off bits off scope tubes. 😊

[Commanderfish]

Now here's a question for you; does M42 Orion Neb look better in an FC76 or an FC100?

I'd have assumed the 100, but reading reviews, am I wrong?

[John]

7 minutes ago, Commanderfish said:

Now here's a question for you; does M42 Orion Neb look better in an FC76 or an FC100?

I'd have assumed the 100, but reading reviews, am I wrong?

Why would it look better with a smaller aperture and less light gathering power ?

M42 is a deep sky nebula. A £250 200mm chinese newtonian will show it better than a Tak 76mm or 100mm.

 

 

[Commanderfish]

I do have an 8" CC and a 10" dob but they do take time to cool. The dob doesn't have the contrast of a CC or a frac, even when cooled.

[John]

14 minutes ago, Commanderfish said:

I do have an 8" CC and a 10" dob but they do take time to cool....

Assuming they are properly collimated, they will show M42 better than a 76mm or 100mm Tak , even when not fully cooled down.

There is nothing "magical" about Taks or other premium refractors. They are really excellent though and perform 100% as you would expect a premium scope of their aperture to perform, maybe even 110%

I love my Tak FC100-DL (the F/9 version of the FC100 series) but my 12 inch dob has always been the scope that has given me my "firsts" and my biggest "wows". I think the dob cost me around £450-£500 to put together.

I'm not knocking these wonderful refractors (I own 4 of the things ) but just being realistic on the basis of my experience

 

Edited April 4, 2021 by John

[Piero]

^^^ I agree!

My refractors are used on solar observing or grab and go, mostly. For proper DSO observing, the cannon is out 95% of the time.

[Stu]

Whilst agreeing with John and Piero, I think widefield observing and grab and go ability was the main purpose for the frac, so it would certainly fit that bill.

[HollyHound]

8 hours ago, John said:

Assuming they are properly collimated, they will show M42 better than a 76mm or 100mm Tak , even when not fully cooled down.

Agree with John here... I’ve observed M42 through every scope I’ve had and aperture here does make a huge difference.

M42 with the F-76DCU, FS-60CB and StellaMira 80mm ED f/10 is enjoyable, but the nebulosity requires averted vision to see much... admittedly M42 isn’t visible for long right now and is quite low though.

Through any of my 5”... ST120 (I’ve sold now), C5 or Mak127, it’s much more visible, with more structure.

StellaLyra 6” (which I think you have too), tiny bit more detail, although this is a slow scope.

Bresser 10” dob though is like looking at a different object... Tons of visible structure, extending much further out and also the only scope (yet) through which I can easily see both the E and F Trapezium stars, when seeing is good 👍

However... I spent a fantastic three hours last night, with both Taks out and just cruised around double stars, clusters and just generally looked around... really fun and enjoyable session. FC-76 for some higher mag and the FS-60 with a Pantoptic 24 for widefield cruising... awesome 😃

[HollyHound]

I’d also add that whilst setting up the finders properly yesterday afternoon on both Taks, I realised they are both perfect for observing wildlife in the fields around us and woodland that starts about 100 yards away... particularly the FS-60... mounted binoculars effectively 👍

[Commanderfish]

Yep I always have a CC6 or 8 alongside a frac for.aperture, the CC8 is.great on M42.

My 10" dob has a slightly brighter view than the CC8 but less contrast, and seems more suscepitble to lght pollution. However I find it much harder to find objects in the dob. Or rather, it's so much easier to.find objects in a wide field frac mounted coaxially with a big scope like the the CC8, which then gives the aperture.

 

[Commanderfish]

4 hours ago, Stu said:

Whilst agreeing with John and Piero, I think widefield observing and grab and go ability was the main purpose for the frac, so it would certainly fit that bill.

Yep this scope woild.maimly be for wide field and grab and go.

Generally speaking there's a balance between aperture and portability/cool down time. Big scopes need time to cool and are harder to move about during the session (dodging terrestrial objects).

I think 4" scopes have a great balance of this, whilst CCs give a lot of aperture in a portable package.

[mikeDnight]

10 hours ago, Commanderfish said:

Now here's a question for you; does M42 Orion Neb look better in an FC76 or an FC100?

I'd have assumed the 100, but reading reviews, am I wrong?

This might give you an idea of how brighter DSO's appear through an FC100, when you get dark adapted and really soak up the subtle detail.

[Stu]

9 minutes ago, mikeDnight said:

This might give you an idea of how brighter DSO's appear through an FC100, when you get dark adapted and really soak up the subtle detail.

@Commanderfish, have you ever met @mikeDnight? 😉🤣

 

[Commanderfish]

Slight hitch in the plan - the guy who is selling me the Feathertouch 2015 is including and adapter for my CC 6 and CC8, and the CC8 focuser in particular winds me up, not that it is in any way bad, in fact it's very good for a stock focuser, but because it is geared too low; it moves too slowly and somehow this makes it harder for me to get to perfect focus. Remember what I was saying earlier about me not using the microfocus wheel?!

So once it's arrived and installed, if I like it I'm back to square one on the Tak focuser 😄

[Nicola Fletcher]

On 04/04/2021 at 02:07, John said:

Why would it look better with a smaller aperture and less light gathering power ?

M42 is a deep sky nebula. A £250 200mm chinese newtonian will show it better than a Tak 76mm or 100mm.

 

 

I think it might have been my comparison of M42 with the FC76-DCU vs other scopes that originally raised this?
Maybe it was just Tak-bias but it seemed to me that the perfection of the view through the FC76 was so pleasing, I enjoyed it more than the other scopes I have used. Of course the bigger scopes showed more detail, but there was something about the Tak’s quality that I fear I may become addicted to!

Edited April 5, 2021 by Nicola Fletcher

[John]

1 hour ago, Nicola Fletcher said:

I think it might have been my comparison of M42 with the FC76-DCU vs other scopes that originally raised this?
Maybe it was just Tak-bias but it seemed to me that the perfection of the view through the FC76 was so pleasing, I enjoyed it more than the other scopes I have used. Of course the bigger scopes showed more detail, but there was something about the Tak’s quality that I fear I may become addicted to!

I'm glad you are enjoying your Tak Nicola. I've enjoyed my FC100 since I bought it in 2016

When I use my refractors (I have 4 between 100mm and 130mm in aperture) I enjoy the feeling that the views I'm getting are probably as good as any scope of that aperture can give.

When I want to go deeper, fainter, tease out more detail or see something that I've never been able to see before, I go to larger apertures and I can't afford / manage a 8 inch plus refractor so it's a newtonian on a dobsonian mount that I turn to. A good one, as it happens.

For me, seeing things that I have seen before, exquisitely nicely, is one part of the hobby but what keeps me personally in it is being able to occasionally see things that I've never managed to see before.

We all have different motivations, of course

 

 

[Nicola Fletcher]

16 minutes ago, John said:

I'm glad you are enjoying your Tak Nicola. I've enjoyed my FC100 since I bought it in 2016

When I use my refractors (I have 4 between 100mm and 130mm in aperture) I enjoy the feeling that the views I'm getting are probably as good as any scope of that aperture can give.

When I want to go deeper, fainter, tease out more detail or see something that I've never been able to see before, I go to larger apertures and I can't afford / manage a 8 inch plus refractor so it's a newtonian on a dobsonian mount that I turn to. A good one, as it happens.

For me, seeing things that I have seen before, exquisitely nicely, is one part of the hobby but what keeps me personally in it is being able to occasionally see things that I've never managed to see before.

We all have different motivations, of course

 

 

Absolutely John, instead of ‘aperture fever’ I have gone backwards- from the 10” SCT all the way down to the FC76! 
This was because I really love having lightweight setups, and being able to put something very lightweight in the car or take it on a plane is the reason I went for the FC76-DCU. The 10” almost put me off the hobby entirely, it was such a hassle setting up and was my first scope, given to me as a gift. 
However, I’m much less experienced than most others on this forum and as you said, everyone has their own motivation 😊

It seems to me that having the best of both worlds, i.e. a small, high quality refractor (or a range of them like you have!) with a bigger setup like a Dob would be ideal. And a permanent setup would be the dream!

[mikeDnight]

1 hour ago, John said:

We all have different motivations, of course

 

 

That's a point that can be so easily overlooked, especially when were passionate about a particular telescope. My passion for refractors used to send my late friend Philip nuts. He was passionate about Schmidt Cassegrains, I suppose because somebody has to be. However, when he looked through any of my refractors, it didn't have to be a Tak, he'd end up selling his SCT because it couldn't produce such perfect star images. Then after a while he'd buy another SCT, then sell it, and the vicious circle continued. Eventually he did settle with a very nice Meade 127mm Triplet and discovered he was actually quite a keen eyed planetary observer - something that came late in his life, as he was too caught up in chasing telescopes rather than observing with them.

For me, my motivation at the moment is to see as much as I can possibly see through my 100mm refractor, which is probably something that will keep me pleasently occupied for the rest of my life. Meanwhile, the 250mm F6 Dob looks on from the sidelines.

My late friend Phil with his 127mm Triplet. A beautiful scope!

 

And my humble little FC100DC and mighty 10" Dob.

Edited April 5, 2021 by mikeDnight

[John]

11 minutes ago, mikeDnight said:

That's a point that can be so easily overlooked, especially when were passionate about a particular telescope.........

 

 I try in keep in mind that the scope is a means to an end and not the end itself

 

 

 

[Commanderfish]

1 hour ago, mikeDnight said:

He was passionate about Schmidt Cassegrains, I suppose because somebody has to be.

😄😄😁

I'm sure that's a lovely 127 your friend had. My 127 ED Apo triplet must be my most used scope of all time. A real keeper 👍

 

Edited April 5, 2021 by Commanderfish

[JeremyS]

1 hour ago, John said:

 

 I try in keep in mind that the scope is a means to an end and not the end itself

 

 

 

Very true. Difficult to remember at times 😊

[Marki]

I don' know, some scopes are truely beautiful things to look at and to feel and handle.... . May has well have a nice one to look at given that here in the UK the clouds will generally mean I'll not be looking through it anyway ;).

Edited April 5, 2021 by Marki

[Nicola Fletcher]

2 hours ago, mikeDnight said:

My late friend Phil with his 127mm Triplet. A beautiful scope!

 

What a beautiful scope and a great photo!

A good reminder to enjoy the scopes we have - I also tend to get a bit obsessive about chasing them. Meanwhile I have packed the Tak and its lightweight mount onto my quad and taken it to a part of the farm with magnificent 360 degree unimpeded views. Hopefully those clouds will disappear later!