NINA & PHD2 Error, anyone else found and fixed ?

[Newforestgimp]

Hi All,

I've had love hate relationship with NINA so far, I love the concept and the front end, but I cant seem to get it to work seamlessly which is of course the whole point. I had some issues last night with APT and out of frustration i thought i would try NINA again and to my surprise it worked amazingly, made it through the problematic platesolving and slewing/centering step that i could not get beyond before only to then stall at PHD2 guiding !!!!

NINA fired up PHD2, started the looping, chose a star, started its calibration, west step east step etc, but PHD2 would then continually say "Waiting for devices, Stopping" and select a new star and repeat that loop ad-infinitum.
So i stopped NINA started PHD2 manually, and it picked a star, calibrated first time no issues, and started guiding, so i restarted the NINA Sequence minus all the automation as a glorified intervalometer. I dont believe in coincidences so NINA must be causing some comms issue I believe.

Anybody else had this and got over it ? I'm thinking some timeout variable somewhere needs changing ?

[Clarkey]

I have used NINA and PHD2 without issue - did you connect the devices in PHD2 before starting NINA?. I would suggest starting and calibrating PHD2 before getting NINA involved. I fact I normally start PHD2 guiding before getting NINA to control - as much as anything this allows the guiding to settle - I also use the predictive PEC in PHD2 and this gives it time to start guiding more accurately.

Which version of PHD2 are you using? I have been using the last 'stable' release which has been fine. I recently downloaded the multi-star which is officially still a beta version so I do not know if this will cause any problems

[Newforestgimp]

2 minutes ago, Clarkey said:

I have used NINA and PHD2 without issue - did you connect the devices in PHD2 before starting NINA?. I would suggest starting and calibrating PHD2 before getting NINA involved. I fact I normally start PHD2 guiding before getting NINA to control - as much as anything this allows the guiding to settle - I also use the predictive PEC in PHD2 and this gives it time to start guiding more accurately.

Which version of PHD2 are you using? I have been using the last 'stable' release which has been fine. I recently downloaded the multi-star which is officially still a beta version so I do not know if this will cause any problems

I cant honestly remember whether PHD2 was connected to devices prior to starting NINA. Doesnt starting and calibrating PHD2 prior to NINA cause PHD issues when slewing, platesolving/centering ? or does it just pick a new star and resume guiding when mount settles ?

[Clarkey]

I always connect PHD2 and all the kit plus calibrate before 'handing it over' to NINA. It does not necessarily need to be guiding at this point. Providing you tick the 'start guiding' box on the sequence page, once you start running your sequence it will pick a star and guide. What I tend to do it get everything set up and slew to my target using NINA and plate solving. A this point I will usually manually start PHD guiding and run the guiding assistant (although neither is necessary if you are in a hurry). Once running NINA will start and stop PHD as required.

[Newforestgimp]

I will bare this in mind next time I'm out, maybe I'm expecting too much of NINA, but I still feel its just a timeout value somewhere that isnt getting response in time back from the mount when NINA is in the loop and cancels the calibration and so starts the process again only to fail at the same waiting reply step. But will try outside of NINA as you suggest.

[CraigT82]

My own workflow with NINA is:

1) Start Nina, connect camera, filter wheel, focuser, scope and guiding. Set camera to cool

2) Go to PHD2 (which opened when I connected guider in NINA) and run calibration and GA in there. 

3) Back to NINA to set target, framing, sequence and start capture. NINA then starts, pauses and resumes guiding as and when necessary.

 

Works perfectly so far. I agree it would be good if NINA ran the calibration and GA automatically but it it think that's a step too far for it currently

[Newforestgimp]

Ok it seems my understanding is incorrect, assuming NINA allows for the calibration step in PHD2, I will have to allow for this next time as you both appear to do.

It's hard to accept giving up more nights experimenting with workflow, but hopefully this might be the last time 👍

[scotty38]

2 hours ago, Newforestgimp said:

Hi All,

I've had love hate relationship with NINA so far, I love the concept and the front end, but I cant seem to get it to work seamlessly which is of course the whole point. I had some issues last night with APT and out of frustration i thought i would try NINA again and to my surprise it worked amazingly, made it through the problematic platesolving and slewing/centering step that i could not get beyond before only to then stall at PHD2 guiding !!!!

NINA fired up PHD2, started the looping, chose a star, started its calibration, west step east step etc, but PHD2 would then continually say "Waiting for devices, Stopping" and select a new star and repeat that loop ad-infinitum.
So i stopped NINA started PHD2 manually, and it picked a star, calibrated first time no issues, and started guiding, so i restarted the NINA Sequence minus all the automation as a glorified intervalometer. I dont believe in coincidences so NINA must be causing some comms issue I believe.

Anybody else had this and got over it ? I'm thinking some timeout variable somewhere needs changing ?

Subsequent posts taken on board here but I have had pretty much this exact situation. Posted about it in another thread somewhere.....

[scotty38]

This was my issue, pretty similar I think....

 

[dannybgoode]

*cough* Try Astroberry/EKOS *cough*.  To steal a well known advertising phrase or saying; it just works.  Has it's own in-built guiding system as well as in-built plate solver etc

[scotty38]

Oh I am sure it does but having said that I bet I can find instances where it doesn't 🤣🤣. Now that I have "learned" to start PHD2 first mine just works too.

Let's be honest though none of this is foolproof or ridiculously easy is it? 🙂

[Newforestgimp]

Its just such a shame, as i thought the whole point of NINA to be a one app controls all ?

So must admit Im still a little confused, when people are saying they start PHD2 first, are we auto/manual selecting guide star in order to start guiding or just opening the app ?

[CraigT82]

15 minutes ago, Newforestgimp said:

Its just such a shame, as i thought the whole point of NINA to be a one app controls all ?

So must admit Im still a little confused, when people are saying they start PHD2 first, are we auto/manual selecting guide star in order to start guiding or just opening the app ?

I connect the camera and mount in PHD2, check right profile is selected, complete the calib and GA, run a test guide for a couple of mins to see if there is nay obvious issues and to check what guide exposures I want (if seeing looks poor I'll increase the exposure from my default 2s).

Then I stop the guiding test and leave PDH2 open and go back to nina, when I start the sequence in nina it automatically selects the star and starts guiding, and the pauses/resumes guiding during autofocus routines, slewing etc.

Would be awesome if NINA did all that but remember we are talking about a free application that one bloke built in his spare time.

[scotty38]

2 hours ago, Newforestgimp said:

Its just such a shame, as i thought the whole point of NINA to be a one app controls all ?

So must admit Im still a little confused, when people are saying they start PHD2 first, are we auto/manual selecting guide star in order to start guiding or just opening the app ?

I'm with you to be fair and up until the point I had my issue I was using NINA just as you describe, fire it up and connect everything - all good. Then I had my hiccup that "fixed" itself by me starting PHD2 before NINA. I haven't had enough time since then to really try and work out what the issue is, just that during the session PHD2 first worked out ok.

[david_taurus83]

You sure you've not selected the Experimental PHD in the guide tab? The one used for syncing 2 instances of NINA for dithering?

Can't say I've had any issues with it myself. I usually connect everything with the power on button in NINA. The only bug I've come across is if I clear the calibration within PHD, it gets ignored if following the sequence in NINA and will usually just start guiding regardless. I have to manually reset and start calibration from within PHD if I want it.

[Clarkey]

4 hours ago, CraigT82 said:

I connect the camera and mount in PHD2, check right profile is selected, complete the calib and GA, run a test guide for a couple of mins to see if there is nay obvious issues and to check what guide exposures I want (if seeing looks poor I'll increase the exposure from my default 2s).

Then I stop the guiding test and leave PDH2 open and go back to nina, when I start the sequence in nina it automatically selects the star and starts guiding, and the pauses/resumes guiding during autofocus routines, slewing etc.

This is pretty well my approach and I have had no issues.

The only problem I have with NINA is that the flats for multi-filters seems to default to 50% of ADU regardless of what I choose. If anyone knows a way round this it would be good.

[CraigT82]

14 minutes ago, Clarkey said:

The only problem I have with NINA is that the flats for multi-filters seems to default to 50% of ADU regardless of what I choose. If anyone knows a way round this it would be good

I don't actually use the flats wizard in nina as I already know the exposures required for each filter from using the flats aid in APT (from before I switched to nina for it's autofocusing capability).

I just set an empty target sequence in nina with the correct exposures for what I need for the filters used and run that. Sorry not much help! 

[Clarkey]

2 minutes ago, CraigT82 said:

I don't actually use the flats wizard in nina as I already know the exposures required for each filter from using the flats aid in APT (from before I switched to nina for it's autofocusing capability).

I just set an empty target sequence in nina with the correct exposures for what I need for the filters used and run that. Sorry not much help! 

I did the same switch for the same autofocus reason.

I didn't think about using the standard sequence - I'll run some test shots with the different scopes and filters and store each as a sequence. Obvious really. I think age is catching up with me!

Thanks for the tip.

[Viktiste]

20 hours ago, Newforestgimp said:

"Waiting for devices, Stopping" and select a new star and repeat that loop ad-infinitum.

In PHD2 try to set your guide camera to 8 bits instead of 16 bits. That fixed the issue for me (with a ZWO ASI 120MC).

[Newforestgimp]

2 hours ago, Viktiste said:

In PHD2 try to set your guide camera to 8 bits instead of 16 bits. That fixed the issue for me (with a ZWO ASI 120MC).

Thankyou I'll check that, probably in a months time looking at the weather coming in 😞

[tomato]

I connect PHD, calibrate etc, before connecting to NINA, I have a few issues with NINA, but PHD isn’t one of them.

Re taking flats, I thought you could set the target %ADU, exposure time etc, with the sliders in the Flats Wizard? I suppose if the software cannot satisfy all of the target criteria, it is perhaps working to a hierarchy, hence that is why it won’t meet your set %ADU?

[AnakChan]

I haven't tried with the latest N.I.N.A. nightly but 2-3 weeks back, I had flawless interaction between N.I.N.A and PHD2 Dev4. In fact I had everything scripted in the Advance Sequencer 2.0 where I, set up my scope, polar align, and with the scope still parked I would run the sequencer routine which automatically cooled camera, unparked, slew, autofocus, centre, start up autoguiding (with forced calibration enabled) and started snapping away my subs till dawn, then park the mount and warm the camera. For now I can't ask for a smoother operation.

When N.I.N.A starts up PHD2, is that starting the same profile as when you start PHD2 manually? I think in the very first PHD2 setup, there is some setting to ensure that you start it in server mode - which is what N.I.N.A uses after that.

[Viktiste]

10 hours ago, Newforestgimp said:

Thankyou I'll check that, probably in a months time looking at the weather coming in 😞

I tested this again indoors tonight.

Not exactly the error you describe, but still worth a shot:

 

If selecting 16 bits here:

Then I repeatedly get this error after "looping exposers for frame and focusing": 

 

Selecting 8 bits does not give the error.

 

 

[xs4allan]

If you have trouble with NINA interrupting PHD2 calibration when using a sequence or whatever schedule.  Be careful you don't have your NINA guiding start timeout too LOW in combination with Guiding start retry. NINA will think PHD2 is not guiding when it is calibrating if this timeout is set too low. Subsequently it will tell PHD2 to RESTART guiding. Causing it never to start guiding because PHD2 will first start calibrating.

I dont know if this fixes the issue for some people but my sequences are looping good with this in mind.

[Newforestgimp]

9 hours ago, xs4allan said:

If you have trouble with NINA interrupting PHD2 calibration when using a sequence or whatever schedule.  Be careful you don't have your NINA guiding start timeout too LOW in combination with Guiding start retry. NINA will think PHD2 is not guiding when it is calibrating if this timeout is set too low. Subsequently it will tell PHD2 to RESTART guiding. Causing it never to start guiding because PHD2 will first start calibrating.

I dont know if this fixes the issue for some people but my sequences are looping good with this in mind.

Interesting & thank you, if I ever get the will power to try again I will change that, it kind of makes sense with the issue I’d been seeing. But having just paid for the full version of APT it might be a while with the lighter evenings now in uk not so much opportunity for experimentation.