Is Astro Pixel Processor still being developed?

[GeekTeacher]

 

Hi everyone.

I want to bite the bullet on some serious astro processing software and APP is my current choice.  I've seen some great images from people who use it and it seems generally well regarded. 

However, after running the trial several things worry me about it.  The first is the lack of an available manual which has been requested many times over the last four years but which still doesn't seem to have appeared.  For a commercial product costing so much it is unthinkable that there should be no documentation for it.  Yes there are a few video tutorials on the website and others scattered around the internet, but surely there should be a proper PDF manual for such a relatively high priced piece of software.  I might expect this of a free program but it's fair to say that many open source programs are much better documented than this commercial product. And it's OK to say that people never read the manual and that it's easy to work out for yourself and to a point that's true, but there are so many options available in the program which I don't understand and want to know more about but I can't find the info.

The next thing is that the main developer, Mabula, doesn't seem very active in the group forums any more. Is APP still being developed? Has someone else taken the lead? I know some other admins/moderators have been appointed so are they they main point of contact now?

Finally, where are Tabs 7 and 8 in the preprocessing section?  It sort of smacks of space for future development but makes the program seem unfinished.  Or do they magically appear at some point?

So I'm asking you all which tutorial do you find the best for a good introduction to APP and then some very basic processing using just a DSLR with OSC lights, darks, flats and bias frames to stack.  Nothing too complicated.

Any thoughts and help appreciated.

Martyn

[Adreneline]

40 minutes ago, GeekTeacher said:

Any thoughts and help appreciated.

I use three pieces of software to help me process my images (a) APP for all pre-processing, (b) PixInsight for most post-processing, and (c) Affinity for final cosmetic tinkering. If I could only keep one it would be PixInsight .

I rent APP and like the ease with which I can carry out pre-processing and, the main reason for buying in the first place, the ease with which it handles mosaics. APP is regularly updated with enhancements and improvements as is PI and Affinity. One advantage of PI is the lifetime free updates once you've paid the initial cost; the same is true for Affinity but not for APP unless you rent.

Personally I haven't missed the lack of manual - there is plenty of help online and in published magazine articles. PI benefits from a wealth of printed and online material, in particular the excellent online Light Vortex tutorials. Affinity is in the same category as APP - search and ye will find.

I presume you have already tried DeeSkyStacker (free) and the likes of GIMP (free) for pre and post-processing.

Adrian

Edited February 13, 2021 by Adreneline

[Tomatobro]

Take a look at EP12 - Sunday, 26th July 2020 7:30pm BST - Introduction to Astro Pixel Processor by Mabula Haverkamp

[GeekTeacher]

Thanks, that's a start.

 

[PeterCPC]

@Adreneline

"I rent APP and like the ease with which I can carry out pre-processing and, the main reason for buying in the first place, the ease with which it handles mosaics. APP is regularly updated with enhancements and improvements as is PI and Affinity. One advantage of PI is the lifetime free updates once you've paid the initial cost; the same is true for Affinity but not for APP unless you rent."

Not strictly true. If you own (like me) you still get updates. The documentation says that you may have to pay for major updates but not been my experience so far.

[GeekTeacher]

On 13/02/2021 at 11:29, Adreneline said:

I use three pieces of software to help me process my images (a) APP for all pre-processing, (b) PixInsight for most post-processing, and (c) Affinity for final cosmetic tinkering. If I could only keep one it would be PixInsight .

I rent APP and like the ease with which I can carry out pre-processing and, the main reason for buying in the first place, the ease with which it handles mosaics. APP is regularly updated with enhancements and improvements as is PI and Affinity. One advantage of PI is the lifetime free updates once you've paid the initial cost; the same is true for Affinity but not for APP unless you rent.

Personally I haven't missed the lack of manual - there is plenty of help online and in published magazine articles. PI benefits from a wealth of printed and online material, in particular the excellent online Light Vortex tutorials. Affinity is in the same category as APP - search and ye will find.

I presume you have already tried DeeSkyStacker (free) and the likes of GIMP (free) for pre and post-processing.

Adrian

Yes, I've got DSS, AS!3, PIPP and Registax as well as PhotoShop. But I work mainly on a Mac and I want an all-in-one processing solution for it, rather than to need to use several packages and still end up needing to do the final work in PS.  APP fits the bill nicely and I'm slowly learning it but in a very inefficient way, fumbling through it like many people already have.  A manual would help me be more efficient and Mabula has said several times that he is working on one, but it's been four years now, so where is it?  This is a commercial product, not someone's hobbyist freeware. You wouldn't expect to pay 198 euros for other software without any instructions from the company you bought it off.  Siril is free, works on a Mac and is good in parts, but still a little clunky and not as slick as APP.  PixInsight is too expensive and too complicated for me - I don't want to spend hours trying to understand the maths and processes. APP with a manual would be perfect. I mean, can you tell me what the lanczos-3 filter does for pixel interpolation?

Edited February 14, 2021 by GeekTeacher

[Adreneline]

1 hour ago, PeterCPC said:

Not strictly true. If you own (like me) you still get updates. The documentation says that you may have to pay for major updates but not been my experience so far.

Thanks for telling me that Peter - I hadn't registered the "may".

I may switch one day but in the grand scheme of things - compared with the cost of all the gear - it's a modest price to pay each year. For me PixInsight represents about 4% of the cost of all of my imaging gear - Affinity is less than 1% - APP just over 1% per year. I can live with that. I understand the figures can look very different for others though. You pay what seems right for you and you take your pick of what's available!

Adrian

[Stuart1971]

2 hours ago, PeterCPC said:

@Adreneline

"I rent APP and like the ease with which I can carry out pre-processing and, the main reason for buying in the first place, the ease with which it handles mosaics. APP is regularly updated with enhancements and improvements as is PI and Affinity. One advantage of PI is the lifetime free updates once you've paid the initial cost; the same is true for Affinity but not for APP unless you rent."

Not strictly true. If you own (like me) you still get updates. The documentation says that you may have to pay for major updates but not been my experience so far.

How long have you owned...? as there has been major updates that owners have not got....the last one was approx 2 years ago if memory serves....the best option is to rent.... 👍🏼

[tooth_dr]

4 hours ago, GeekTeacher said:

I want an all-in-one processing solution

Unfortunately APP doesn’t offer that, it’s not an all in one solution for processing.  

[Stuart1971]

Just now, tooth_dr said:

Unfortunately APP doesn’t offer that, it’s not an all in one solution for processing.  

Hmmm, it is, it’s just not quite on par with PI...but it can all be done, to a certain level....👍🏼

[tooth_dr]

5 minutes ago, Stuart1971 said:

Hmmm, it is, it’s just not quite on par with PI...but it can all be done, to a certain level....👍🏼

I know what you are saying, but you can also manually stack data in GIMP so you could say the same about it. I don’t think you will find anyone serious about astrophotography who only uses APP.  

Edited February 14, 2021 by tooth_dr

[Stuart1971]

3 minutes ago, tooth_dr said:

I know what you are saying, but you can also manually stack data in GIMP so you could say the same about it. I don’t think you will find anyone serious about astrophotography who only uses APP.  

So in your opinion what can’t APP do..? as in my opinion  it’s the best out there for stacking and calibration....

[tooth_dr]

1 hour ago, Stuart1971 said:

So in your opinion what can’t APP do..? as in my opinion  it’s the best out there for stacking and calibration....

I use APP for stacking and calibration, it's fantastic at this.  But then the data gets moved into PS (or more recently I bought PI so trying out that too).   I think you are arguing for the sake of it, it's pretty well accepted that APP isnt a complete image processing package, but it's very good at stacking and calibrating, and correcting gradients too.  PI may well be a complete image processing product, I just dont know enough about it to recommend it.

[Stuart1971]

4 minutes ago, tooth_dr said:

I use APP for stacking and calibration, it's fantastic at this.  But then the data gets moved into PS (or more recently I bought PI so trying out that too).   I think you are arguing for the sake of it, it's pretty well accepted that APP isnt a complete image processing package, but it's very good at stacking and calibrating, and correcting gradients too.  PI may well be a complete image processing product, I just dont know enough about it to recommend it.

Not arguing at all, for the sake of it, or otherwise, why would you even say that..??  just because I have the audacity to disagree, I know people on this forum don’t like that, I was just asking for your opinion on the subject....nothing more...

[GeekTeacher]

I am all

1 hour ago, tooth_dr said:

Unfortunately APP doesn’t offer that, it’s not an all in one solution for processing.  

When I said 'all-in-one' I meant not having to go down the PIPP-A!S3-Registax route or similar.  I meant using just one package for converting, calibration and stacking before finishing in PS , GIMP or Affinity etc.  

However, I do believe that some people with the right skills could just use APP on its own, without the need for further processing in another package.

And I am always astounded to hear of people who say they use both APP and PI - are these people made of money? They are not cheap software packages. Shouldn't an either / or be sufficient?

PI is not all-in-one either which amazes me for such an expensive package. Why should it be necessary to need to use PhotoShop, GIMP or Affinity after using PI? But most people do.
 

But all this is getting away from the main point of my topic - where's the manual for APP or at least some comprehensive and well-organised tutorials that cover the all the possible settings buried in the menus?

There's not even a third-party book on it as far as I can see.

[Stuart1971]

1 minute ago, GeekTeacher said:

I am all

When I said 'all-in-one' I meant not having to go down the PIPP-A!S3-Registax route or similar.  I meant using just one package for converting, calibration and stacking before finishing in PS , GIMP or Affinity etc.  

However, I do believe that some people with the right skills could just use APP on its own, without the need for further processing in another package.

And I am always astounded to hear of people who say they use both APP and PI - are these people made of money? They are not cheap software packages. Shouldn't an either / or be sufficient?

PI is not all-in-one either which amazes me for such an expensive package. Why should it be necessary to need to use PhotoShop, GIMP or Affinity after using PI? But most people do.
 

But all this is getting away from the main point of my topic - where's the manual for APP or at least some comprehensive and well-organised tutorials that cover the all the possible settings buried in the menus?

There's not even a third-party book on it as far as I can see.

You can use APP for it all, I have done many times, it’s a bit more of a learning curve, and the tools are not as powerful as PI, but it can be done, and anyone who says that it can’t, does not know how to use APP, and to assume you can’t is just ignorant....

I agree, I would never pay for both and why would you, I use APP all the time, and on “some” images I do move to PS for a final levels and curves but that’s it, only because I have an old copy of PS and because on some images it’s easier.....

these were done purely in APP, and I am fairly happy with them...

 

[Stuart1971]

@GeekTeacher have you read this, it’s very good..

https://digitalstars.files.wordpress.com/2020/09/app-quick-start-guide-v1.1.pdf

Edited February 14, 2021 by Stuart1971

[Clarkey]

Just to give my opinion. (Trying not to offend anyone😀)

APP can do the complete processing - and in some cases I do use it for this. It seems to work very well for certain images. However, generally I use it for stacking and calibration plus gradient removal. I also use Star Tools sometimes - I find it good for getting detail out of images with very good data, but not so good if there is too much noise. My main processing tool is Affinity which is now even better as it has some new astrophotography tools for stacking (which I have not tried yet). Also there are some macro's that James Ritson has produced which can help with some workflow.

As a rule I nearly always use a combination. I would say that I think the stacking in APP very good - albeit slow.

[GeekTeacher]

18 hours ago, Stuart1971 said:

@GeekTeacher have you read this, it’s very good..

https://digitalstars.files.wordpress.com/2020/09/app-quick-start-guide-v1.1.pdf

Yes, it was suggested by someone the other day for me, but thanks. However, the point still is that I shouldn’t need to go trawling the internet for basic instructions and info like this. There should be a manual for a high priced commercial product like APP.

[Stuart1971]

5 minutes ago, GeekTeacher said:

Yes, it was suggested by someone the other day for me, but thanks. However, the point still is that I shouldn’t need to go trawling the internet for basic instructions and info like this. There should be a manual for a high priced commercial product like APP.

Totally agree....👍🏼

[tomato]

If you want one AP package to rule them all, that’s a big ask, as the many discussions on this topic here on SGL demonstrate. Also, even if you buy them all, it’s still wouldn’t  make a dent in what can be spent on the hardware.

I agree a proper APP manual is long overdue, I suspect the enthusiastic users community has steered the creator to develop the software features rather than a manual, but that’s for Mabula to comment on.

A newcomer coming up on the rails so to speak is Affinity Photo, it was a cheaper alternative to PS a year or so ago, but now it has built in dedicated Astro functionality including calibration and stacking, who can say what other Astro features it might have in another 12 months?

[Frank the Troll]

18 minutes ago, tomato said:

A newcomer coming up on the rails so to speak is Affinity Photo, it was a cheaper alternative to PS a year or so ago, but now it has built in dedicated Astro functionality including calibration and stacking, who can say what other Astro features it might have in another 12 months?

Affinity photo is the new kid on the block, it has only just release their new astro tools, give it some time to develop, and it will be the main goto progam to use. IMO I find it user frendly, all it really needs now is PS plug-in combatibility, , and it will be the main goto app.  As for the price, its as cheap as chips, so grab it while you can

[Stuart1971]

5 minutes ago, Frank the Troll said:

Affinity photo is the new kid on the block, it has only just release their new astro tools, give it some time to develop, and it will be the main goto progam to use. IMO I find it user frendly, all it really needs now is PS plug-in combatibility, , and it will be the main goto app.  As for the price, its as cheap as chips, so grab it while you can

It seems it has got PS plug-in capability..

below text taken from there web site....

Plug-ins

Use 64-bit Adobe® Photoshop® compatible plug-ins

Installed plug-ins are detected and checked for compatibility

LAB plugin support

Edit in 32-bit RGB documents

Support is growing, more plug-ins to be supported over time

[PeterCPC]

Yes I use some PS plug ins quite happily.

[Frank the Troll]

2 hours ago, PeterCPC said:

Yes I use some PS plug ins quite happily.

 Any chance that this would plug in ?  https://www.prodigitalsoftware.com/AstronomyToolsActions.html