Skywatcher ED80 upgrade path

[Messy Hair 101]

I'm flirting with the idea of upgrading from ED80DS Pro as I feel I'm getting towards the end of what I can do with it. I would like to stick with a refractor but go for a triplet. Ideally something with more aperture. Has anyone gone from my OTA to an Esprit 100 or perhaps WO 81GTI? Did you notice much of a difference given the increase in cost?

[PeterCPC]

I have mainly imaged with an ED80 but I recently acquired an Esprit 100. It has better optics and gathers light quicker but I could not say that the difference was vast. It has a much nicer focuser as well. The Esprit is now my default telescope. You will notice the difference in weight - it's much heavier.

Edited January 5, 2021 by PeterCPC

[Messy Hair 101]

2 hours ago, PeterCPC said:

I have mainly imaged with an ED80 but I recently acquired an Esprit 100. It has better optics and gathers light quicker but I could not say that the difference was vast. It has a much nicer focuser as well. The Esprit is now my default telescope. You will notice the difference in weight - it's much heavier.

Thanks for this Peter. It sounds like you have taken the path I was looking at. As I suspected, the returns are there but diminishing. I'm also aware that my ED80 is not as cheap as it sounds once you add a decent focuser (the stock one really is awful), new guide rings, FR/FF etc.

I did wonder about the weight but if you can mange it on an AVX, the HEQ5 should be OK (just about).

Hmm, more to ponder.

 

[newbie alert]

I went from a William optics 80d to a esprit 80.. far better scope..

[licho52]

I went to Esprit 80 directly as I felt that the 80ED (which I considered) wasn't such a great value especially concerning its focuser.  I exactly expected to hit the point you did with your 80ED and ending up looking to upgrade....so I just got the Esprit, no regrets.

[Messy Hair 101]

54 minutes ago, licho52 said:

I went to Esprit 80 directly as I felt that the 80ED (which I considered) wasn't such a great value especially concerning its focuser.  I exactly expected to hit the point you did with your 80ED and ending up looking to upgrade....so I just got the Esprit, no regrets.

Yes once you factor in a new focuser, you have spent nearer £800. The ED80 is great scope but I'm just checking how other people have found upgrading from it to another refractor and whether I would benefit from increasing the aperture although that then starts to push the mount capacity. Tricky. If anyone out there went from an ED80 to something other than an Esprit, it would be interesting to hear.

[tooth_dr]

7 minutes ago, Messy Hair 101 said:

Yes once you factor in a new focuser, you have spent nearer £800. The ED80 is great scope but I'm just checking how other people have found upgrading from it to another refractor and whether I would benefit from increasing the aperture although that then starts to push the mount capacity. Tricky. If anyone out there went from an ED80 to something other than an Esprit, it would be interesting to hear.

I personally havent found the focuser to be an issue on my ED80, and I have had a lot of kit hanging off it.  However my daughter wanted a gold telescope for Christmas, so I bought her a Alt-Az mount and she is now the proud owner my gold ED80.  I replaced this with a SharpStar94.  I looked at the Esprits, but the focal length, speed and the 44mm imaging circle swung it for me.  I've only used it a few nights, so hard to comment, but the biggest thing that I can see is that the RGB filters focus at the same position, and the stars seem overall smaller.  I am getting some haloes that I didnt notice before, but nothing that really upsets me.

[Messy Hair 101]

10 minutes ago, tooth_dr said:

I personally havent found the focuser to be an issue on my ED80, and I have had a lot of kit hanging off it.  However my daughter wanted a gold telescope for Christmas, so I bought her a Alt-Az mount and she is now the proud owner my gold ED80.  I replaced this with a SharpStar94.  I looked at the Esprits, but the focal length, speed and the 44mm imaging circle swung it for me.  I've only used it a few nights, so hard to comment, but the biggest thing that I can see is that the RGB filters focus at the same position, and the stars seem overall smaller.  I am getting some haloes that I didnt notice before, but nothing that really upsets me.

Hmm. I wonder if the gold ones had better focusers, or perhaps better QC? I have the black diamond. Mine was passable but it feels so much worse in hindsight after upgrading to a Baader Steel track. I think i could hang off the back of that and it wouldn't move.

I'd love to hear more on the Sharpstar as that's on my radar. A triplet with larger aperture but light and competitively priced. There's a lot to like.

[tooth_dr]

4 minutes ago, Messy Hair 101 said:

Hmm. I wonder if the gold ones had better focusers, or perhaps better QC? I have the black diamond. Mine was passable but it feels so much worse in hindsight after upgrading to a Baader Steel track. I think i could hang off the back of that and it wouldn't move.

I'd love to hear more on the Sharpstar as that's on my radar. A triplet with larger aperture but light and competitively priced. There's a lot to like.

I had a black one too, no issues with it either (I ran them both side by side on a dual setup).  I know you say you feel like you are getting to the end of the ED80.  I kinda felt too that an upgrade was an inevitable right of passage, but yet I still havent really surpassed my old images despite investing in 'better' kit

This is one of my favourites, cropped heavily, taken with the ED80 dual rig.  Not terrible for 80mm aperture

[Messy Hair 101]

53 minutes ago, tooth_dr said:

I kinda felt too that an upgrade was an inevitable right of passage, but yet I still havent really surpassed my old images despite investing in 'better' kit

This is one of my favourites, cropped heavily, taken with the ED80 dual rig.  Not terrible for 80mm aperture

Fantastic image. You're right of course. Perhaps I'm just after some retail therapy. There's certainly more I can do with this rig, improving my focussing and post processing for starters. I need to master it all before I need to upgrade the ED80. Maybe I go back to looking for a longer focal length scope to compliment my setup. Thanks for your input.

[Shimrod]

1 hour ago, Messy Hair 101 said:

Yes once you factor in a new focuser, you have spent nearer £800. The ED80 is great scope but I'm just checking how other people have found upgrading from it to another refractor and whether I would benefit from increasing the aperture although that then starts to push the mount capacity. Tricky. If anyone out there went from an ED80 to something other than an Esprit, it would be interesting to hear.

 

Not quite sure of the mathematics on that - you can get the Ed80 for £379, and a Baader Steeltrack is £305 (that's with addtional adapter ring and finder shoe). You can then sell the original focuser for around £80 (mine sold on ebay) - that's gives a total of just under £600.

[Messy Hair 101]

16 minutes ago, Shimrod said:

 

Not quite sure of the mathematics on that - you can get the Ed80 for £379, and a Baader Steeltrack is £305 (that's with addtional adapter ring and finder shoe). You can then sell the original focuser for around £80 (mine sold on ebay) - that's gives a total of just under £600.

True but the DS Pro Outfit (which is what I have) is £499, plus the Steeltrack and other odds and sods is over £800. You get the idea. I hadn't factored in selling off any parts. Did you sell your old focuser with screws or not? I had to drill mine out in the end as they're glued in which would effect resale value.

[tooth_dr]

1 hour ago, Messy Hair 101 said:

Fantastic image. You're right of course. Perhaps I'm just after some retail therapy. There's certainly more I can do with this rig, improving my focussing and post processing for starters. I need to master it all before I need to upgrade the ED80. Maybe I go back to looking for a longer focal length scope to compliment my setup. Thanks for your input.

Thank you.  I like a bit of retail therapy too

Can I share an image I took of the same object at a longer FL?  Same cameras, but at 1200mm instead of the 522mm (that is what my reduced ED80 plate solved to.   I always like having the longer focal length to go to for galaxy season.

 

[Messy Hair 101]

24 minutes ago, tooth_dr said:

Thank you.  I like a bit of retail therapy too

Can I share an image I took of the same object at a longer FL?  Same cameras, but at 1200mm instead of the 522mm (that is what my reduced ED80 plate solved to.   I always like having the longer focal length to go to for galaxy season.

 

Another cracker! You can see the increased detial at the longer fl but the ed80 isn't a million miles away. I would probably go more extreme fl wise with maybe a skymax 180 for planetary work which I miss 

[Shimrod]

3 hours ago, Messy Hair 101 said:

True but the DS Pro Outfit (which is what I have) is £499, plus the Steeltrack and other odds and sods is over £800. You get the idea. I hadn't factored in selling off any parts. Did you sell your old focuser with screws or not? I had to drill mine out in the end as they're glued in which would effect resale value.

I've taken the price as the 'bare' 80ed on offer at FLO on the assumption accessories would not be required - it would be higher if you need/want to buy the full kit.

I had to drill out my screws as well but had bought a small bag of 20 replacements. I sold for £80 and included three screws from the bag - I have seen them go for slightly more on ebay if you are prepared to wait a bit for the right buyer - there's a couple that sold for over £100 ebay sold 80ed focusers

[StevieDvd]

If you plan on imaging and adding a motor to the focuser, the need to upgrade the focuser deminishes as some stepper motors can hold the camera train weight. I say some as the trend now is for smaller motors, with the usb electronics encased in one unit, and some allow manual focusing to be done (others don't).

[Messy Hair 101]

3 hours ago, StevieDvd said:

If you plan on imaging and adding a motor to the focuser, the need to upgrade the focuser deminishes as some stepper motors can hold the camera train weight. I say some as the trend now is for smaller motors, with the usb electronics encased in one unit, and some allow manual focusing to be done (others don't).

Yes I have an EAF and that does help with one issue I had with the focuser i.e. when I did up the lock nut, it moved the focus point away from where I wanted to set it which was infuriating. I did also do some work on the friction material on the drawtube to flatten that and give it greater purchase although it would sometimes still slip under weight which a focuser wouldn't stop. I must have just had a really bad one.

I feel like this thread is turning into me ragging on Skywatcher ED80 stock focusers!

[StevieDvd]

2 hours ago, Messy Hair 101 said:

Yes I have an EAF and that does help with one issue I had with the focuser i.e. when I did up the lock nut, it moved the focus point away from where I wanted to set it which was infuriating. I did also do some work on the friction material on the drawtube to flatten that and give it greater purchase although it would sometimes still slip under weight which a focuser wouldn't stop. I must have just had a really bad one.

I feel like this thread is turning into me ragging on Skywatcher ED80 stock focusers!

Sorry if came across like that it was more intended for any reader contemplating updating the standard focuser then adding a stepper motor that does hold the camera in place well even on the standard focuser. I did want to name and shame any of the other focus motors that don't keep the focus set (without the locking screw being needed), seems like the ones which allow manual focus would need a decent focuser for that option to work.

[KP82]

Personally I wouldn't bother switching to anything with a similar focal length for imaging unless the current scope had very poor colour correction or was way too slow. If I were to choose something different from ED80, I'd go with either Esprit 120 (840mm FL) for smaller targets or ZS61 (360mm FL) for wide field. Another path would be a 1000 - 1250mm fast newt but this will require skills, a good mount and good seeing condition for high res imaging.

Edited January 12, 2021 by KP82

[Messy Hair 101]

2 hours ago, KP82 said:

Personally I wouldn't bother switching to anything with a similar focal length for imaging unless the current scope had very poor colour correction or was way too slow. If I were to choose something different from ED80, I'd go with either Esprit 120 (840mm FL) for smaller targets or ZS61 (360mm FL) for wide field. Another path would be a 1000 - 1250mm fast newt but this will require skills, a good mount and good seeing condition for high res imaging.

You're right of course. I haven't outgrown the ED80 yet and got to the point where CA is the limiting factor. An Esprit 80 is hard to justify, better but not drastically. The 120 would necessitate an eq6 or the like which my wife is BOUND to notice. Might be back to a secondary Mak for planets and galaxies (if I can guide well enough).

Edited January 12, 2021 by Messy Hair 101

[KP82]

20 minutes ago, Messy Hair 101 said:

You're right of course. I haven't outgrown the ED80 yet and got to the point where CA is the limiting factor. An Esprit 80 is hard to justify, better but not drastically. The 120 would necessitate an eq6 or the like which my wife is BOUND to notice. Might be back to a secondary Mak for planets and galaxies (if I can guide will enough).

Mak would be too slow for galaxies. A C8 with a 0.7x reducer would be a far better choice for small distant DSOs.

[Messy Hair 101]

32 minutes ago, KP82 said:

Mak would be too slow for galaxies. A C8 with a 0.7x reducer would be a far better choice for small distant DSOs.

Good shout. Longer FL but not crazy long, can do planets and small DSO's, not too heavy and the price is reasonable. By jove old chap, I think you've cracked it! 

Day 367 of regretting selling my 6se 🙄🙄

[MattJenko]

I went from my ED80 to an Altair 115 triplet. As mentioned above, I saw no point in upgrading to a similar FL system, as the difference would not really justify the leap in cost, and I wanted something different. I really haven't regretted it. I do switch between reducer and a flattener to give me FL options, but actually prefer native FL. Its all about image scale at the end of the day with pairing it with a suitable camera and I find the FL with thin scope marries really well with the newer CMOS chips and the skies that I image under.