Any idea when Skywatcher will resume supplying the UK?

[RobH2020]

Looks like everywhere is out of stock of Skywatcher scopes, which are of course made in China. 

Anyone heard anything about when we might see this around again? 

Many thanks

Rob

[Nakedgun]

Backorders are the norm in practically any arena, now. Been waiting for some motorcycle parts for months....

[discardedastro]

To be blunt, speaking as someone with a good view of logistics in another industry that imports considerable stock from the far east and Europe, don't bet on anything showing up till July at the earliest. Normal service might start to resume sometime towards the end of 2021.

We're working on the basis that Brexit will break most ports for at least 3-6mo while everyone figures out how to do the paperwork and the UK side builds all the infrastructure we're missing (the EU side has, broadly, got it all in place by now). Anything we needed to get in for our business, we got in months ago (and we have a new warehouse as a result).

I'm sure FLO and others are doing their best but even non-EU imports are going to be heavily disrupted coming into the UK. Sea freight is already Interesting - we've had some shipments rerouted twice to different ports in hopes of capacity for the carrier - and air freight is far too expensive for astro stuff, by and large.

To add to the Brexit fun, China is also swamped in a lot of its hub freight terminals, shipping PPE for COVID-19 all over the globe. We're still seeing major disruption at far east air and sea ports because of that, with month-long delays now common - it's so slow that it's actually been faster for some of our suppliers to expand their EU manufacturing facilities and produce items for us "locally".

Lastly, some goods are affected by factory shutdowns and slowdowns due to COVID-19; this is probably the minority of causes of disruptions right now, but is absolutely still happening. Plenty of manufacturers - especially smaller outfits - don't have space to achieve social distancing in plants, or can only do it with a skeleton crew, so actual production throughput is pretty limited. China is doing quite well on this front but plenty of other places aren't. Sky-watcher in particular are probably OK on this front but products made in the EU or Americas are liable to be hit by this.

By Nov-Dec '21 I'd anticipate vaccine deployment in EMEA to be progressing (though far from complete) and ports/hauliers/importers to have largely got on top of Brexit-related procedure changes and paperwork, as well as most of the Brexit-related backlog having caught up. So maybe early '22 we'll be "back to normal".

[pete_l]

5 hours ago, discardedastro said:

So maybe early '22 we'll be "back to normal".

Which brings up the next question: how will retailers get through the "lean times" when they can't sell anything because they haven't got anything to sell?

[RobH2020]

Thanks for your thoughts! 

I spoke to Skywatcher USA (couldn't find any contact details for any other location) and they said:

"The factory is running and producing normally. The hard part is that many people have taken to astronomy due to the lock downs across the globe. Astronomy is one of the industries that has exploded in interest as it is something people can do from home with their family. Due to the massive increase in demand it has increased buying beyond the normal amount for telescope equipment globally. This and the fact that COVID has hit the raw material suppliers hard means its difficult to keep up with the sudden surge in demand."

I also spoke to FLO and they said they're regularly getting Skyliners in (I'm after the 200 dob) but that they typically sell out ahead of receiving the delivery - i.e. demand is ahead of supply. There's also a detailed note on their site about the whole disruption.

Interestingly the second-hand market is pretty robust at the moment, I've seen a Skyliner 150 dob currently on £300 and rising on ebay, and that's retail priced at around £220 usually.

So a good time if you want to get rid of kit!

Edited December 23, 2020 by RobH2020

[Louis D]

6 minutes ago, RobH2020 said:

Interestingly the second-hand market is pretty robust at the moment, I've seen a Skyliner 150 dob currently on £300 and rising on ebay, and that's retail priced at around £220 usually.

So a good time if you want to get rid of kit!

I've seen this in the US as well.  Ads on CN have been running double to triple the typical volume, and asking prices are at near new prices on desirable items.  When you figure in actual shipping and online payment charges, they're often well above new prices that typically don't charge for these two conveniences.

[RobH2020]

3 minutes ago, Louis D said:

I've seen this in the US as well.  Ads on CN have been running double to triple the typical volume, and asking prices are at near new prices on desirable items.  When you figure in actual shipping and online payment charges, they're often well above new prices that typically don't charge for these two conveniences.

Yeah it's nuts what posting something costs to the average Joe on the street, especially something massive and bulky like a telescope! Amazingly FLO can charge £8 for courier delivery whether it's a 30kg, two-box telescope setup, or just an envelope with a filter. Shows the bargaining power a business has with the express couriers vs one person!

If I do get hold of the 200mm I'd be intending to sell the 150mm, but I don't think I'd bother offering postage (collection only), too much hassle and risk of breakage!

Edited December 23, 2020 by RobH2020

[Louis D]

9 minutes ago, RobH2020 said:

If I do get hold of the 200mm I'd be intending to sell the 150mm, but I don't think I'd bother offering postage (collection only), too much hassle and risk of breakage!

Most Dobs and tripods are typically pickup only in the US simply due to the bulk.  However, people are shipping SCTs, Maks, APOs/EDs, and mount heads, and even those get expensive.  It comes down to supply and demand.  While no one might want to shell out $1000 to $5000 on a particular item locally, someone in the US more than likely will (we're like the whole EU as a market).  When they're in it for that kind of money, tossing in another $50 to $200 for shipping is peanuts.

As far as the really big and expensive items (20"+ Obsession Dobs, etc.) that you really can't safely ship at any price, people tend to agree to meet up at some intermediate point for exchange and make a short vacation out of it.  They used to meet up at big star parties or NEAF for these exchanges, but they've all been cancelled.

[Tiny Clanger]

16 hours ago, discardedastro said:

To be blunt, speaking as someone with a good view of logistics in another industry that imports considerable stock from the far east and Europe, don't bet on anything showing up till July at the earliest. Normal service might start to resume sometime towards the end of 2021.

We're working on the basis that Brexit will break most ports for at least 3-6mo while everyone figures out how to do the paperwork and the UK side builds all the infrastructure we're missing (the EU side has, broadly, got it all in place by now). Anything we needed to get in for our business, we got in months ago (and we have a new warehouse as a result).

I'm sure FLO and others are doing their best but even non-EU imports are going to be heavily disrupted coming into the UK. Sea freight is already Interesting - we've had some shipments rerouted twice to different ports in hopes of capacity for the carrier - and air freight is far too expensive for astro stuff, by and large.

To add to the Brexit fun, China is also swamped in a lot of its hub freight terminals, shipping PPE for COVID-19 all over the globe. We're still seeing major disruption at far east air and sea ports because of that, with month-long delays now common - it's so slow that it's actually been faster for some of our suppliers to expand their EU manufacturing facilities and produce items for us "locally".

Lastly, some goods are affected by factory shutdowns and slowdowns due to COVID-19; this is probably the minority of causes of disruptions right now, but is absolutely still happening. Plenty of manufacturers - especially smaller outfits - don't have space to achieve social distancing in plants, or can only do it with a skeleton crew, so actual production throughput is pretty limited. China is doing quite well on this front but plenty of other places aren't. Sky-watcher in particular are probably OK on this front but products made in the EU or Americas are liable to be hit by this.

By Nov-Dec '21 I'd anticipate vaccine deployment in EMEA to be progressing (though far from complete) and ports/hauliers/importers to have largely got on top of Brexit-related procedure changes and paperwork, as well as most of the Brexit-related backlog having caught up. So maybe early '22 we'll be "back to normal".

All accords with what I expect, apart from the vaccine roll out going smoothly and swiftly , which I'm less than sanguine about, despite the sterling work of the NHS .

Keeping up with the news, (not the pap from the BBC or most newspapers)  and predictions of knowledgeable people about the likely effects of brexit and the general official unpreparedness shambles with added covid difficulties is exactly why, rather than saving up for it to buy in the new year as I'd intended, I raided the rainy day fund and ordered my second telescope at the start of October. It was delivered at the end of October. The current lead time estimate for that 'scope is 30-40 working days.

I expect prices will increase as well , partly supply & demand, but also what will be going on with the £.  Not just astro kit will be hit .

[Seelive]

I remember the days when decent scopes were actually manufactured in the UK. If this goes on, could their be an opening in the market?

[Nik271]

There are actually very good consumer telescopes still made in the UK, e.g. here:

https://www.orionoptics.co.uk/aboutus.html

 

The problem is can we afford their prices? Those who have the money certainly can get top UK made quality if they want it. Then there is a lot to be said in favour of the cheap and decent telescopes from Synta and similar Asian companies which have given an affordable start into astronomy for so many people. The difference in the cost of living between UK and China makes it impossible to compete on price. I suppose we can tax them more to boost home production but there are so many downsides that it may not be worth it. By the time a production line is set up all the pandemic/brexit disruption probably will be resolved. What makes more sense strategically is specialising in professional high precision equipment, but that is definitely not going to reach the masses. So I guess it will be Synta for me for some time at least... 

 

    

[Tiny Clanger]

8 minutes ago, Nik271 said:

There are actually very good consumer telescopes still made in the UK, e.g. here:

https://www.orionoptics.co.uk/aboutus.html

 

The problem is can we afford their prices? Those who have the money certainly can get top UK made quality if they want it. Then there is a lot to be said in favour of the cheap and decent telescopes from Synta and similar Asian companies which have given an affordable start into astronomy for so many people. The difference in the cost of living between UK and China makes it impossible to compete on price. I suppose we can tax them more to boost home production but there are so many downsides that it may not be worth it. By the time a production line is set up all the pandemic/brexit disruption probably will be resolved. What makes more sense strategically is specialising in professional high precision equipment, but that is definitely not going to reach the masses. So I guess it will be Synta for me for some time at least... 

 

    

Yes, also the economies of scale keep the Synta prices down, a small scale producer simply isn't going to be able to compete on price for a telescope of similar quality.

Heather

[DaveS]

5 hours ago, Nik271 said:

There are actually very good consumer telescopes still made in the UK, e.g. here:

https://www.orionoptics.co.uk/aboutus.html

 

The problem is can we afford their prices? Those who have the money certainly can get top UK made quality if they want it. Then there is a lot to be said in favour of the cheap and decent telescopes from Synta and similar Asian companies which have given an affordable start into astronomy for so many people. The difference in the cost of living between UK and China makes it impossible to compete on price. I suppose we can tax them more to boost home production but there are so many downsides that it may not be worth it. By the time a production line is set up all the pandemic/brexit disruption probably will be resolved. What makes more sense strategically is specialising in professional high precision equipment, but that is definitely not going to reach the masses. So I guess it will be Synta for me for some time at least... 

 

    

OOUK are premium optics and priced accordingly. They also have long lead times, I ordered my ODK12 at Astrofest in Feb '19, and received it in Oct.

[John]

Fortunately the prices of Orion Optics scopes are (usually) somewhat more reasonable bought used. You can avoid that wait time and their "customer service" as well by buying used. 

 

 

[Kon]

I think the backorders outstrip the supply, but that's true with many industries at the moment. I ordered my SW 200P Dob back in end-September and was delivered to me this week (FLO made me aware that there was a 45-60 days wait).  If you are ordering from FLO their estimated delivery is pretty good.

[Kimboman]

It's good for astronomy that the  present climate is giving the science a boost and that other manufacturers may appear.

Things will improve given time

[Louis D]

On 23/12/2020 at 10:39, Nik271 said:

What makes more sense strategically is specializing in professional high precision equipment, but that is definitely not going to reach the masses.

That's pretty much what PerkinElmer and Corning have done in the US.  They now only work at the high end on industrial, academic, and governmental contracts.  I'm sure they could make awesome amateur telescopes and eyepieces, but at what price?

[Your Star Will Shine]

In my line of work we import some products from China and during the last 12 months things have obviously been crazy.

We had to charter flights which meant the transport cost was 3 times more than the value of the goods but our customers need it so paid the fee's.

In normal times if we did fly goods in it took 7 to10 days now its 6 weeks.

I'm assuming the telescope retailers are not 150m turnover business like where I work so will go down the container route which is 2 months give or take in normal times from factory to front door so to speak.

We have very good fright and shiping agents with long standing relationships and they've said shipping is now around 3 months.

Our goods are high volume low cost goods that only have 3 to 5 weeks manufacture process I have no idea what the time is for a telespcope or the number of factory's making these but you could imagine based on the demand in the UK its huge where our retailers sit in that que will only add to the lead time. It could be weeks or months.

Looking online for the last few months and the sold out messages on most items I'd suggest orders went in around late summer so I wouldn't be supprise if you see some land late Jan Feb but these may only clear back orders as they continue to mount.

If you're really need to know phone the supplier they'll give you the exacts.

I will wait to later into 2021 to upgrade unless something second hand pops up at a sensible price and condition

Edited January 1, 2021 by Your Star Will Shine

[Spile]

To give you an idea, the 200P ordered at the end of October arrived in the last week of December. 

[mikeDnight]

May be there'll be a return of the amateur telescope maker. Their skill of many and their ingenuity was an endless source of amazement to me. 

[ShinyTwelve]

On 23/12/2020 at 14:14, RobH2020 said:

Yeah it's nuts what posting something costs to the average Joe on the street, especially something massive and bulky like a telescope! Amazingly FLO can charge £8 for courier delivery whether it's a 30kg, two-box telescope setup, or just an envelope with a filter. Shows the bargaining power a business has with the express couriers vs one person!

Have a look at https://www.parcelmonkey.co.uk/

I use them a lot. They have bulk purchase power and pass it on to the little man. You can get the parcel collected from your location as well.