Not seeing anything through telescope

[fifeskies]

11 minutes ago, ollypenrice said:

It can, in fact, be shown that the surface brightness of an extended object cannot be increased by a telescope. This is a rather surprising bit of science but also a misleading one since, subjectively, we don't see it that way. While it's technically correct that the surface brightness can't be increased, I've always found this to be a rather 'dry' point since, in order to see fainter objects, we need a bigger telescope. What's really happening is that a smaller telescope, in increasing the object's image size, is spreading the light out too far and dimming it. More aperture allows for the object to be spread out over a larger area without being so badly dimmed. So telescopes do make faint objects bright enough to see but they do it by making them bigger rather than brighter.

Olly

 For large extended objects there is also the interplay between rods and cones that can distort the perception of what we "think" we see since the retina is not uniformly populated with them.

Our less sensitive spot centre vision can make a small object hard to see so dodging averted vision is needed.

Once the object spreads wider into the more off centre area the brain tends to fill in the centre detail in a much more natural way than having to scan around on a small object. A kind of persistence of vision effect kicks in, though it is "learned" which is why practised observers often see more.

 

It's all just smoke and mirrors after all.

(well for certain mirrors (diagonals are mirrors 🤪)

 

Edited November 17, 2020 by fifeskies

[banjaxed]

It must be an individual preference as my eyes are fine looking at the moon in its waxing stages and I don’t need a filter, but when it approaches half moon it is far too bright for my eyes. 

[fifeskies]

I much prefer a waxing or waning Moon as I agree the need for a filter reduces away from full Moon

 

Another reason I prefer it is that either the early part of the night or the later part will be returned to darkness as the moon dips below the horizon (or is not up yet) so there is more freedom to look for the DSO objects that need the darker sky.

 

You get to enjoy the moon but also take in some of the other delights.

Its good for outreach type events too as there is the exciting wait for a moonrise, or the ability to show the fainter objects once it sets.

 

Younger audiences in particular will appreciate the bigger range of things you can show them over a session that way.

 

We need an app to allow us to scroll the moon back and forward across the sky on demand 🤡

 

Edited November 17, 2020 by fifeskies

[John]

We had an interesting discussion on moon filters last year:

 

[Padraic M]

Personally if I'm going to be viewing the moon for any period of time, I'd stick in a moon filter. I find it bright enough to dazzle but not too bright to hurt. Personal preference then as to whether you'd use a filter or not.

But from a priority point of view though, if Maryland is cold and humid like where I am, then a dew heater is a much more important purchase for a SCT. Go without a dew strap for 15 minutes and you won't need any moon filter! 🙂  I was more than a little disappointed on my first night out with a new C8 (once I'd figured out why the image was so poor).

Back to the focus/alignment issue - with long focal lengths like these, it's quite hard to line up the scope by hand. I like to find a roofline (in the city) or a mountain ridge (in the country) to reduce the problem to a single dimension; then move left or right along the line to find an identifiable point (a chimney or antenna in the city or a boulder, tree or fencepost on the mountain). Then it's a simple task to adjust the finderscope to align with that point. Once it's done, don't mess with the finder scope and you don't need to redo it every session.

There's not much point trying to do this indoors but if you just want to play with your new scope then work away!

[Witcherking10]

I havent had the chance to try my SE8 on the moon. It hasn't been in my view at all for the past few days but if I feel I need a filter, I'll certainly get one. 

I did wanna say after 3 straight days of playing with my starsense to align which it did but never perfectly, last night I looked for Mars for about 30 minutes all over the scope based on the initial alignment area and found it. After calibration, I was able to find Jupiter, its moons and Saturn. Such an amazing experience seeing these planets through your own eyes, it was well worth standing out on my deck in 30 degree weather to look at some planets. I added the 2x barlow and started playing with the zoom. For Mars, I couldnt see much red, really a bright yellow circle ball. With Jupiter I was able to see its 4 big moons but couldnt find any bands when looking at Jupiter, maybe with more practice playing with different zooms and focus? Saturn was the best, I could see it pretty clearly and its rings, truly fascinating! The one lens I got that allows me to adjust from 24mm to 4mm does make a big difference and adding the 2x barlow enhances the experience. People did say more magnification doesnt always give a better image which I also agree with. I'm in a rural area of Maryland so light pollution is high, I'm sure that's also a factor for not seeing more clearer images but it's a start. Just happy to be able to see things! 😄

[fifeskies]

You do better than me for latitude (assume you are around 38 North , I am 57) but even so Jupiter and Saturn are a long way south this year.

They will be moving North over the next few years so views will improve.  (Jupiter faster than Saturn)

You should manage to see the banding on Jupiter easily with your 8se, just needs a better night , and in a couple of years you will see it much nearer the zenith where the air is better.

[Witcherking10]

I'm latitude 39 so very close to what you said! For first try what I saw I was satisfied with when it came to Jupiter but will continue to play with the focus and the different maginifications now that my alignment is all good and the clear sky with as little light as possible would be nice. I am glad to hear Jupiter and Saturn will be moving north so it will be a lot easier. I must admit I knew it would be fun to have a telescope but I didnt know it would be so much fun! I'm definitely enjoying stargazing and looking at planets. Eventually will try out DSO. The HC on the SE alone has sky tours, solar system, DSO, and then the sky portal allows you to find what you are interested in. I know I would have a hard time if I had to do it manually especially sitting out in 30 degree weather looking for planets haha 

[fifeskies]

Jupiter and Saturn Declinations over next few years

Both are on their way back North  😎

 

 

Edited November 18, 2020 by fifeskies

[fifeskies]

48 minutes ago, Witcherking10 said:

 Eventually will try out DSO. The HC on the SE alone has sky tours, solar system, DSO, and then the sky portal allows you to find what you are interested in. I know I would have a hard time if I had to do it manually especially sitting out in 30 degree weather looking for planets haha 

Stellarium , a free download programme is very handy for sitting in the warm looking at what will be in view from your location so you can plan out your session before you go out in the cold.

[Starwatcher2001]

56 minutes ago, Witcherking10 said:

I must admit I knew it would be fun to have a telescope but I didnt know it would be so much fun!

I've got some bad news for you - you're hooked 😂

Seriously though, you've made a good start and you'll start seeing much more with time and experience.

With the StarSense, make sure you've done the alignment procedure to line up the camera and tube axis. I also discovered (by playing with the same type of mount with my finder), that it's possible for the camera to be put on the mount at slightly different angles each time. If you slide the camera on then fully tighten the screw at the rear, and then the one at the front, but the following night tighten the screws in a different order, the angle's not always the same. That explained why some nights objects would be dead centre and other nights off by a margin. Either do the alignment each night (which is a bit of a pain), or try to be consistent with the way you screw it to the mount.

You can also add an alignment point at any time. This means it takes another photo and adjusts when it's in that area of the sky. If you're spending a bit of time in one constellation or nearby, it's worth doing for the extra bit of accuracy.

[Witcherking10]

Stellarium, I'll definitely download it and check it out, thanks! But yeah I'm hooked to this haha my wife was looking for me around the house last night and I was outside with the telescope 😂

thanks for the pointers about the mount and the camera. So far it seemed to work really well and pinpointed the planets with pinpoint accuracy after I did the initial alignment but will keep the tips you provided handy. Now I just look up at the sky and hope for clear skies every night haha 

[Nicola Hannah Butterfield]

On 18/11/2020 at 12:13, Witcherking10 said:

For Mars, I couldnt see much red, really a bright yellow circle ball. With Jupiter I was able to see its 4 big moons but couldnt find any bands when looking at Jupiter, maybe with more practice playing with different zooms and focus? Saturn was the best, I could see it pretty clearly and its rings, truly fascinating!

This is what hooks many.

I viewed Jupiter through my Skywatcher 200p with both the 25mm 10mm and barlow 2x all kit lenses (I mainly do A.P. these days), but had a few mechanicals this week, and it was an opportunity to show the lady I care for both of these planets, as the scope angle was at an angle her disability allowed her to view for a few moments. I digress, but we could see the clouds on Jupiter, and the rings of Saturn, but as both are low on our horizon I guess as good as could be, also in a bortle 7 sky, but this doesn't have much influence on the brighter objects.

Once the steep learning curve is somewhat overcome things will get a little easier.