The best 4 inch/5inch achro!

[Nair al Saif]

Hello all,

Im really looking to get a 4/5 inch achro (don’t mind CA) refractor (sorry dobsonian fans). Max budget is 580pounds.
 

The three main contestants:

Skywatcher evostar 120mm eq3-2 395 pounds. Tripod upgrade costs 99pounds and new Crayford focuser costs 130 pounds (yikes)!

Bresser ar102/1000 and an eq3-2 380 pounds.

Bresser 127/1200 eq5 ofc 580.

The skywatcher will need a new tripod and a new focuser unless someone can give me valuable input.

So the question is do I sacrifice a bit of the optical quality to get the most stable, focuser good telescope aka the Bresser 102, or go for the long run and get the Bresser 127/1200 or does the evostar have a chance at success?

Thank You for your Time!

Clear skies!

Edited August 31, 2020 by Nair al Saif

[Dippy]

1 hour ago, Nair al Saif said:

Hello all,

Im really looking to get a 4/5 inch achro (don’t mind CA) refractor (sorry dobsonian fans). Max budget is 580pounds.
 

The three main contestants:

Skywatcher evostar 120mm eq3-2 395 pounds. Tripod upgrade costs 99pounds and new Crayford focuser costs 130 pounds (yikes)!

Bresser ar102/1000 and an eq3-2 380 pounds.

Bresser 127/1200 eq5 ofc 580.

The skywatcher will need a new tripod and a new focuser unless someone can give me valuable input.

So the question is do I sacrifice a bit of the optical quality to get the most stable, focuser good telescope aka the Bresser 102, or go for the long run and get the Bresser 127/1200 or does the evostar have a chance at success?

Thank You for your Time!

Clear skies!

I have the Lyra 102 f/11 which is this one:

https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/language/en/info/p1958_TS-Optics-102-mm-f-11-Fraunhofer-Refractor---Optical-Tube-Assembly.html

 

Since have bought it, I have stopped using my 8 inch Meade LX200 . The Lyra is such a quality equipment, optically and mechanically. It is a Fraunhofer achromatic which means practically it has not much chromatic aberration. The focuser and tube rings are superb, the best I have seen.

[GazOC]

I've owned a Skywatcher 120 and a clone of the Bresser 127, the latter was by far the better scope.

[Robindonne]

Why not enter the used market?    Or “like new” used market?   
 

Why prefer new less quality over used better quality?   
In the end its actually cheaper. When you sell that used one without losing money.

if you look good and have some patience, you will find a 100 ed and a good eq3/5 mount for that budget.  

[Nair al Saif]

Yes I have been scouring eBay and Facebook marketplace and many more looking for a good deal

[Nair al Saif]

1 hour ago, GazOC said:

I've owned a Skywatcher 120 and a clone of the Bresser 127, the latter was by far the better scope.

Why was the Bresser better?

[Timebandit]

 

 

I see you say you don't mind CA. But CA can grow very annoying over a period of time, especially if the CA is not semi controlled. Try Luna for example and badly controlled CA just totally detracts from a beautiful sharp crisp image IMO,that is achievable in a good scope on a sensible budget.

I would suggest that you look for a ED doublet and the one that I would suggest is the ED100 from skywatcher . The second hand market on this site and I am sure you will get a cracking little SW100ED for your budget. Why put up with visual CA? when you can buy a nice used SW 100ED refractor.

 

 

[dweller25]

I agree with Timebandit.

Personally I dislike any level of CA, so I would also suggest the SW 100ED.

[Louis D]

6 hours ago, GazOC said:

I've owned a Skywatcher 120 and a clone of the Bresser 127, the latter was by far the better scope.

I'm assuming based on the title of the thread that it wasn't the Skywatcher EvoStar 120ED.  I've often wondered if a long focal ratio 150 achro would outperform such a 120ED on some objects.  I wouldn't expect a 127 achro to outperform it in any respect except perhaps mechanically.

[Nair al Saif]

Some clarifications, I don’t mean ed versions of anything lol. So the evostar is only the air spaced doublet!

is the Bresser an air spaced doublet or not?

[Nair al Saif]

6 hours ago, GazOC said:

I've owned a Skywatcher 120 and a clone of the Bresser 127, the latter was by far the better scope.

The evostar was it an achro or an ed and why was it better?

[RT65CB-SWL]

5 hours ago, Nair al Saif said:

Yes I have been scouring eBay and Facebook marketplace and many more looking for a good deal

I would forget eBay (apart from ENS Optical and Sky's the Limit/Skies Unlimited). I am not on Facebook, so unable comment on 'marketplace'. 
AstroBoot... https://www.astroboot.co.uk/AstroBoot and UKAB&S... https://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/ plus the classifieds section here on SGL are your friends!

Edited August 31, 2020 by Philip R

[rl]

It's not just CA you have to worry about...the large cheap achros also suffer from varying levels of spherical aberration as well. CA is at least designed in given the glass type and focal ratio. SA is as much a feature of how spherical the figuring really is. I've owned 2 examples of the ST120 one of which was far better in this regard than the other. Other people have similar stories about the 120mm f/8 variants. All the optical aberrations seem to get better with longer focal ratios; the Lyra 102 f/11 is probably a good choice in this respect. 

[Franklin]

Skywatcher Evostar 120 weighing in at 5.5kg needs to be on an EQ5 in my opinion. Ota @ £269 new, one went on ebay the other week for £100 ( Omni 120 ) they are very similar synta scopes.

The Bresser 127 has a much better focuser, ota @ £312, but is heavier @ 7.5kg, it's a bigger longer scope as well. On the limit for an EQ5 really. The TS Optics is better yet again @ £499 but for another £100 you can get the 102ED f11. I've had all these achro's and for your budget I would agree with the guys above and go for a used Skywatcher 100ED or get a new one @ £555 and then pick up a used EQ5/GP.

[si@nite]

I have an old Bresser 127l achro, Fantastic lunar scope for visual & imaging, also very little ca with it being at F10!

Good veiws of the Planets can be had , i would also reccomend  the Baader semi apo filter which eliminates  most of the ca too!

[xtreemchaos]

My old faithful is a AR127L f9.5 its a wonderful old scope ive had it about 20 years must of been one of the first ones. its great on the moon and planets but do show a little ca on bright stuff. takes lovely moon images. cons its heavy and dos catch the wind. i allso have a starwave 102 f11 but mainly use it for solar Ha with a quark but its also a very nice vis scope and a lot lighter than the ar127l but again a little ca on the bright stuff. goodluck. charl.

[omo]

31 minutes ago, Philip R said:

I would forget eBay (apart from ENS Optical and Sky's the Limit/Skies Unlimited). I am not on Facebook, so unable comment on 'marketplace'. 
AstroBoot... https://www.astroboot.co.uk/AstroBoot and UKAB&S... https://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/ plus the classifieds section here on SGL are your friends!

I would forget ENS Optical on ebay, maybe best speaking to Mr Asbury / ENS away from ebays fee structure that over inflates his prices 👍

[Nair al Saif]

Does anyone have any experience with the 102/1000 from Bresser. I’m thinking that would be my best choice. Stable mount, good focuser, cheap: yes I know that I will sacrifice some aperture but I just don’t justify paying another 200 for the 127/1200. Heck at the 200 pound mark I could get a 6 inch dobsonian too with my 4 inch refractor. But if there is any dire reason that someone tells me I will be open to change. Yes the evostar has more aperture for the price, but it has a terrible mount on eq3-2 and a terrible focuser. But again all input is welcome.

So now the question is the smaller Bresser or the apeture only bonus on the skywatcher evostar 120. I have thought about buying the ed but if I’m paying 500 pounds I need a Mount too lol. Yes the second market is good but you never know why they are selling it at a low price!

[Franklin]

Bresser 102/1000 has the hexfocuser which is good, you can get it on the exos1 or exos2 mount. Exos2 is the more capable mount. Another option is the Bresser 102/1350 on an exos2, at f13.2 ca will be kept to a minimum.

[Timebandit]

1 hour ago, Nair al Saif said:

 I have thought about buying the ed but if I’m paying 500 pounds I need a Mount too lol. Yes the second market is good but you never know why they are selling it at a low price!

 

Firstly if you are after a good mount at sensible money. Then a AZ4 are very sensible cost second hand. I have mounted my 120ed on a AZ4 and more than happy with it.

As for being nervous about the used market , You risk getting good and bad persons in all types on transaction I suppose. But when it comes to Astro gear then from my experience most fellow astro chaps/ladies are usually decent people who look after their gear. Probably around 95% of my astro gear has been purchased used with no real problems. If you are still a bit nervous then keep to the SGL sales site, probably the best used gear site available👍🔭

 

 

 

[Alkaid]

21 minutes ago, Timebandit said:

 

Firstly if you are after a good mount at sensible money. Then a AZ4 are very sensible cost second hand. I have mounted my 120ed on a AZ4 and more than happy with it.

 

 

 

 

Really? I think I’d be alright with that set-up for casual DSO hunting, but for Luna or Planetary I’m thinking a bit shaky shaky...

I’ve mounted a heavy 4” (TAL) frac on an AZ4 and it was too much for detailed work.

[GazOC]

3 hours ago, Nair al Saif said:

The evostar was it an achro or an ed and why was it better?

It was the achromat. I didn't have them both side by side but I'm pretty sure I had them at the same Jupiter opposition (it was ~15 years ago so I can't be sure). 

The 127 gave clearly better views of Jupiter than the 120 and I've always regarded the planet as the acid test for refractors.

Ironically, given the question, I sold the 127 when I bought an ED120 which rendered the achromat a bit redundant

[SiriusB]

Happy with my Evostar 120,(actually an omni xlt) sold first evostar  years ago, recently bought another.

IF you could find one~ an old Vixen 102 f10. I briefly owned the lens in a rather heath robinson tube assembly( I wouldn't have put my name to that one, but someone had!).

Thought the optics were spot on,minimal CA,

I wish i hadn't sold it now but the rest of the DIY package was naff & i didn't at the time

have the knowledge or skills or tools to make a better tube for it.

[SiriusB]

Ps, don't buy an evostar 120 with eq3-2, needs a eq5 minimum IMO.

[Nair al Saif]

I think I will get the Bresser 102/1000 on an eq3-2 Mount.  380 pounds. The Bresser 127/1200 is too heavy and expensive. The evostar 120 has a bad focuser and is heavy on an eq3-2 Mount.  Unless  the evostar is better because it has better optics but I doubt so?

Edited August 31, 2020 by Nair al Saif