My first scope, a little advice to see if I'm on the right track

[Thor92]

Hello all,

Just joined after a lot of lurking around.

I'm wanting to purchase my first proper telescope (had some small stuff when younger but nothing serious) initially I'm not wanting to do astrophotography but rather visual astronomy specifically deep sky (I know running before walking) possibly with a small bit of planetary.

 I've done a fair bit of research and it seems I want a large ish Dobsonian of about 8-10" . I would like one that I could possibly attach a camera to at a later date not necessarily for fantastic astrophotography shots just a few quick snaps/very short long exposures :) 

I'm wanting a manual base to start with and not a go-to or auto tracker. As from what I've read and watched it's a good way to learn the nights sky and general stargazing.

I've seen alot of US ones are popular like the Orion series and the Apertura but I they don't seem popular in the UK.

 Where do you think is the best place in the UK to purchase a decent one and any recommendations on brand. I have a decent budget but would still like to keep it relatively reasonable for the first scope under £400 would be good under £300 would be even better but I realise not always possible.

Also anyone know a shop around the Leeds/Bradford area.

 

Many thanks all

J

[Thor92]

So small update seems I may have been slightly off with wanting a DOB. After doing more research and talking to a few people it seems Sky-Watcher Explorer 150P EQ3 would be something that fits the bill more. Especially as the go to mount could come later.

[banjaxed]

Hi and welcome to SGL. A good place to start your research is by tapping on the First Light Optics title at the top of this home page which takes you to their store where all the information you need will be readily available to you .

[Carbon Brush]

Hello and welcome to SGL.

I would not recommend giving up on a dob just yet.
At this stage, being able to set up and view easily is quite important.
An 8" dob, like the SW200, will give you the 'wow' views of deep sky objects, and take the magnification for the planets.

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-skyliner-200p-dobsonian.html

This size is a good compromise between light gather and portability. It is within your budget.

I would not bother with thrying to use an EQ3 mount for any phtography.
Think in terms of a small scope on EQ5 or HEQ5 upwards for anything weighty.

Bear in mind the scope/mount/eyepeice packages are made to meet a price point.
It is fair to say the mount/tripod are usually the smallest the manufacturer can use.

I think that your nearest shop is going to be Rother Valley Optics, near Sheffield.
They are a reputable dealer who have been around for a long time.
First Light Optics tends to get first go at my wallet for online new purchases - excellent service.

Hope this helps and Keep asking on SGL and at a local astronomy club.

David.

Edited September 4, 2019 by Carbon Brush

[Thor92]

1 minute ago, Carbon Brush said:

Hello and welcome to SGL.

I would not recommend giving up on a dob just yet.
At this stage, being able to set up and view easily is quite important.
An 8" dob, like the SW200, will give you the 'wow' views of deep sky objects, and take the magnification for the planets.

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-skyliner-200p-dobsonian.html

This size is a good compromise between light gather and portability. It is within your budget.

I would not bother with thrying to use an EQ3 mount for any phtography.
Think in terms of a small scope on EQ5 or HEQ5 upwards for anything weighty.

Bear in mind the scope/mount/eyepeice packages are made to meet a price point.
It is fair to say the mount/tripod are usually the smallest the manufacturer can use.

Hope this helps and Keep asking.

David.

Thanks for your lengthy reply David, it is genuinely appreciated, I run a group for fish keepers with 15k members and I know how frustrating it can be with all the new people asking the same questions. 

One of the reasons that put my off a Dob and onto something like the 150P or a 150PDS is the fact that it is slightly future proof for what I'm possibly wanting to do. They have the possibility of attaching a SLR and doing a small bit of astrophotography. The options to upgrade the mounts to something like an EQ5 or even a go-to mount.

Something that I am lead to believe is very difficult with a DOB? 

Also I realise this is a slippery slope. Would there be a huge difference between a 130 and a 150? From what I've seen so far it seems to be a fairly decent difference but then the difference between the 150 and a 200 not so much atleast so the YouTube reviews seems to suggest.

 

Many thanks for everyone's replies

Jonjoe

[Mr niall]

Hello there

Lots of people will give you opinions about what would suit your needs - but you are right in that dobs are visual only really with very limited future upgrade potential.

However if you are looking for a visual only scope with the potential to upgrade later I would personally try to steer you away from the 150p on an EQ. Logically you are right in that it "ticks the boxes" but the problem I found was that starting off in astronomy with a manually controlled EQ mount was an absolute nightmare and a very frustrating experience. You'd be better going straight to the GOTO option I think if you wanted to do that (budget allowing).They're great once you've found your object but scanning the skies looking for something can be an exceptionally frustrating experience as they don't have the up/down/left/right movement that a standard alt/az mount has.

It may suit you better to consider getting your big dob now - and then re-visiting whether you want to move into astrophotography further down the line; possibly with the investment in other kit. They're quite different disciplines and it's really difficult to get a "one scope for all" type setup that doesn't compromise you on something. But its quite subjective and others may disagree.

As a note - Orion and Skywatcher are the same company basically. Once you start shopping around you'll notice that many scopes look suspiciously similar; Orion focus mainly on the US market that's all; so its cheaper to buy Orion in the US and Skywatcher in the UK. The Orion XT series and the Skywatcher Skyliner series are the same thing.

[Peter Drew]

I totally agree with Mr Niall's post. It's natural to want to do everything immediately during the initial enthusiasm but visual and imaging are two very different paths. If you start with a suitable Dobsonian it will give you the best views for the financial outlay and if you eventually need something more specialised it can easily be sold on at little loss or none at all if bought second hand.   😀

[StarryEyed]

A GSO 8" Dob.  There's plenty to photograph without using a mount. A good camera tripod and a fast wide lens. You could add a small goto camera sized mount when you feel ready. There's lots to choose from. Keep the telescope and camera separate for as long as you can.

[Nigella Bryant]

Az gti in eq mode plus an 70mm ed or ed80mm refractor and later add guider if wanting to image. Good also for taking to dark sky.

[Cosmic Geoff]

I agree with the comments made by Mr Niall in particular.  Even if we are talking visual only, scopes fulfill specialized functions and trying to buy one scope to cover all bases is hopeless. I have five scopes and four mounts, and I still  don't have anything optimized for deep-space astrophotography.

I suggest that you don't agonise overmuch over what scope to buy.  Just get something small, easy to handle and within budget and see how you get on with that.  Later you can buy with the benefit of practical experience, and perhaps having decided what kind of kit you don't like.

[Thor92]

Thank you all very much for the replies, I'm almost blown away with the number of detailed replies for a beginner especially on a weekday! .
They are all appreciated and am very thankful for the varying comments but all with very similar advice. This helps a lot.

From talking to friends, one of whom is on here i believe, reading through what feels like the entire forum including other beginners experiences, and reading your comments I have come up with a few options;

*Start with a 200mm dob but be limited with upgrades or future photography so I'm slowly starting to rule this out as I think it would be more limiting than I would like. I am a tad on the edge with this because I feel this could teach me the night sky in a very manual way, if that makes sense.

*Purchase a 115-130mm on a go to mount. This is an option I initially looked at with interested however I could only find 115mm or 130mm within my budget there may be 200mm out there but I can't seem to find them and they certainly won't be in my budget. My advice so far and what I've read elsewhere in the forum recommends trying to get at least 150mm for any deep sky observing as it helps massively to have a larger 'light bucket' something that as an engineer makes a lot of sense. 

*Purchase a 200mm on a EQ3 mount with dual axis motors (Possibly EQ5 mount if I can stretch that far) I have looked around and the one that seems to stand out is the Skywatcher 200P-DS as this seems to be a decent visual telescope but also optimised for attaching my DSLR at a later date (Possibly sooner than I thought seeing some of the absolutely incredible images on this fourm!) I beleive there are also addon kits that can make the QE3/EQ5 a "go to" system or a semi "go to" system whatever one of those is!
I am very much leaning towards this option, there seems to be some great deals out there as well, I'm finding FLO very interesting, my bank account not so much. My hobbies are all cheap..... Not (Flying, both full scale and rc, Boating, Cars and woodwork) 

 

Thank you all very much again for your replies. As always open to advice and views. I'm finding that choosing a telescope especially the first (likely of many, yes already figured that bit out) seems to be a very personal experience and what you specifically want to get out of it.

Jonjoe

[Thor92]

Also, I've seen a few older blue tubed sky watchers around, is there a major difference between the newer black tubed and the older black tubed scopes?

[nightfisher]

6 minutes ago, Thor92 said:

Also, I've seen a few older blue tubed sky watchers around, is there a major difference between the newer black tubed and the older black tubed scopes?

optics are pretty much same on blue and black tubes, focusers might be better on newer black diamond

[Steve Clay]

Have you considered a 150pds reflector on an AZ4  or skytee2 mount. This will give you that manual dob like experience to start with and is very portable. Then later when you're ready add an Eq mount. Look on astrobuy and sell as you can get really good secondhand bargains there. 

Steve

[Thor92]

1 minute ago, Steve Clay said:

Have you considered a 150pds reflector on an AZ4  or skytee2 mount. This will give you that manual dob like experience to start with and is very portable. Then later when you're ready add an Eq mount. Look on astrobuy and sell as you can get really good secondhand bargains there. 

Steve

I haven't but am literally talking with a friend at the moment about AZ mounts. I think that is definitely something to look at. Interesting you say 150mm is that just for portability? or am I missing something there

Thanks  

[Marvin Jenkins]

I think the only option is to get all of the above! Only joking. I don’t like commenting on Dobs as I do not have one, but it is unanimous that they are the best value for money for aperture. The downside is very limited for photography.

I chose the Newtonian on an EQ mount thinking I could do astrophotography. EQ2!!!!!! A smallish newt is a remarkable instrument, but needs a good mount EQ5 and beyond. My personal jump to EQ5 has made me very happy for the time being with the small newt I have 130.

Took my breath away what can be seen by a 130 under dark skies on a decent mount. Could probably say the same for a small frac but the cost is somewhat higher. No truer statement, no mount, no scope.

Dobs on the other hand have little if no mount issues and for cost give you way bigger apertures. If you are happy with visual only get a Dob, if you want go to with Astro photography possibilities get a Newt or Frac on a decent EQ. 

Marv

[Steve Clay]

1 hour ago, Thor92 said:

I haven't but am literally talking with a friend at the moment about AZ mounts. I think that is definitely something to look at. Interesting you say 150mm is that just for portability? or am I missing something there

Thanks  

150 mm very portable and not as demanding on any future eq mount. I have a skyyee2 with a 150 PDS on it and a 127 Mak which I really like. 

There is a sky tee on astrobuyand sell now for £180 and a used 150 PDS for £120.

Steve

[Cosmic Geoff]

3 hours ago, Thor92 said:

*Purchase a 115-130mm on a go to mount. This is an option I initially looked at with interested however I could only find 115mm or 130mm within my budget there may be 200mm out there but I can't seem to find them and they certainly won't be in my budget. My advice so far and what I've read elsewhere in the forum recommends trying to get at least 150mm for any deep sky observing as it helps massively to have a larger 'light bucket' something that as an engineer makes a lot of sense. 

*Purchase a 200mm on a EQ3 mount with dual axis motors (Possibly EQ5 mount if I can stretch that far) I have looked around and the one that seems to stand out is the Skywatcher 200P-DS as this seems to be a decent visual telescope but also optimised for attaching my DSLR at a later date (Possibly sooner than I thought seeing some of the absolutely incredible images on this fourm!) I beleive there are also addon kits that can make the QE3/EQ5 a "go to" system or a semi "go to" system whatever one of those is!

A 115mm or 130mm Newtonian on a Goto mount would be a sound choice for a starter scope or permanent 2nd scope for grab'n go or portable field use.

You could have a 200mm Newtonian on a GoTo mount but it will be a German Equatorial GoTo unless you separately buy one of the less known makes of mount.

Don't put a 200mm Newtonian on an EQ-3 mount as it will overload it even for visual use.  If you are determined to have a 200P-DS and use it for deep space astrophotography it is recommended that one uses a EQ-6. 

Yes, you can get upgrade kits to convert an all-manual EQ-3 or EQ-5 to full GoTo. These kits cost about £300. 

I have personally used a 200mm Newtonian on a EQ-5 mount and found the usability very poor. This setup is surprisingly large when erected and it is possible to get the eyepiece about 7 feet off the ground and in a angled position hard to reach even with a step-up.

Yes if you want to see faint fuzzy objects an aperture of 8 inches or more is highly desirable.

Choosing a telescope is full of compromises.🙁

[Aramcheck]

Hi Jonjoe,

I'd suggest hooking up with the Leeds Astronomical Society. They hold public observation sessions at the New Inn in Eccup, where you can see different scopes up close. They also have regular meetings at the Quakers Meeting House, near The Eldon pub / Leeds Uni and there's plenty of friendly/knowledgeable folk there. (Next is on the 11th Sept) - see http://www.astronomyleeds.org.uk/index.php for more info.

My wife and I started observing last year, with a 130mm Newt. on EQ2. Light pollution here is pretty bad as we're close to the airport and I found it a pretty steep learning curve. We've just upgraded to a 200mm/EQ6... which on our first viewing enabled us to see much fainter objects like M57 & M13, both of which had  previously eluded us under the similar conditions (probably from the difficulty of locating objects via star-hopping rather than light pollution?).

Over the last year, I've found that just sitting out with binoculars and a copy of Sky & Telescope's "Pocket Sky Atlas" was an easier method of learning where things are in the sky.

Cheers
Ivor

[Thor92]

Hello everyone!

So I have narrowed it down to either a skywatcher 150PDS or a 200PDS mounted on a AZ mount, for the reasons discussed above, (AZ5 I think) or If i can pick up a good deal on a go to mount then to go for that one however this seems difficult as all the scopes that seem to come with go to mounts are only 117-130mm and I'm led to believe these wont be very good at viewing deep sky objects especially with a bit of light pollution.

So I am on the lookout for a 150PDS or a 200PDS and a AZ5 mount (or goto that can handle a 150pds)  There is a few on astrobuysell but unfortunately the closest one is a 3 hr drive each way.

There are several around that come with EQ5 mounts, am I best picking one of these up and selling the EQ5 and getting a decent AZ mount?
These are well well within my budget and will allow purchasing of some accessories etc from FLO.
Its either that or buy new, but obviously I'd like to have a look around first, no point buying it new if a nice package can be had for £££ less.

On another note, thinking forward is there any specific DSLR that would be good for starting out in astrophotography I do have one however it would be nice to have a dedicated cam

One other question I have here is, are the PDS much much better than the P for when I eventually start the photography side of things? Given how it explains how its better for focusing im going to guess yes.

Thanks again everyone for your responses so far, they are much appreciated and no doubt I will be spamming the forum with many many more questions.

J

Edited September 5, 2019 by Thor92

[Steve Clay]

1 hour ago, Thor92 said:

Hello everyone!

So I have narrowed it down to either a skywatcher 150PDS or a 200PDS mounted on a AZ mount, for the reasons discussed above, (AZ5 I think) or If i can pick up a good deal on a go to mount then to go for that one however this seems difficult as all the scopes that seem to come with go to mounts are only 117-130mm and I'm led to believe these wont be very good at viewing deep sky objects especially with a bit of light pollution.

So I am on the lookout for a 150PDS or a 200PDS and a AZ5 mount (or goto that can handle a 150pds)  There is a few on astrobuysell but unfortunately the closest one is a 3 hr drive each way.

There are several around that come with EQ5 mounts, am I best picking one of these up and selling the EQ5 and getting a decent AZ mount?
These are well well within my budget and will allow purchasing of some accessories etc from FLO.
Its either that or buy new, but obviously I'd like to have a look around first, no point buying it new if a nice package can be had for £££ less.

On another note, thinking forward is there any specific DSLR that would be good for starting out in astrophotography I do have one however it would be nice to have a dedicated cam

One other question I have here is, are the PDS much much better than the P for when I eventually start the photography side of things? Given how it explains how its better for focusing im going to guess yes.

Thanks again everyone for your responses so far, they are much appreciated and no doubt I will be spamming the forum with many many more questions.

J

AZ5 and 200 pds wont work as the ota is too heavy. A 150 would be ok but the tripod is the weak link so you would be better off getting the steel tripod.

Or go heavy duty AZ with the skytee. There is one.on astro buy and sell with steel tripod for £180. Also there is a 150PDS for £120.

The PDS has a dual speed focuser which is handy and the focal length is slightly shorter to allow focus with a DSLR. It also comes with a nice 28mm 2inch eyepiece.

Steve

[Thor92]

21 minutes ago, Steve Clay said:

AZ5 and 200 pds wont work as the ota is too heavy. A 150 would be ok but the tripod is the weak link so you would be better off getting the steel tripod.

Or go heavy duty AZ with the skytee. There is one.on astro buy and sell with steel tripod for £180. Also there is a 150PDS for £120.

The PDS has a dual speed focuser which is handy and the focal length is slightly shorter to allow focus with a DSLR. It also comes with a nice 28mm 2inch eyepiece.

Steve

Just picked up the 150PDS with coma corrector and Cannon T ring  for £200 so very happy with that. Hopefully that was an okay deal

Just the mount now!  

So you think a AZ5 would be okay then?

[Steve Clay]

If the az5 and if It were me I think I would get just the head and mate it to the 1.75 inch steel tripod.  The az5 has the same tripod as bundled with the azgti which I have and its quite wobbly even with.the short 127 mak.

Sounds a good deal on the 150. You've roughly got it at 1/2 new price.

Steve

[Thor92]

14 minutes ago, Steve Clay said:

If the az5 and if It were me I think I would get just the head and mate it to the 1.75 inch steel tripod.  The az5 has the same tripod as bundled with the azgti which I have and its quite wobbly even with.the short 127 mak.

Sounds a good deal on the 150. You've roughly got it at 1/2 new price.

Steve

Thanks.

I'm looking at mounts now. I'm a little confused as the AZ4 mount has a higher weight capacity than the AZ5 mount and comes with a steel tripod. Am I missing something here.

Ah i think I've spotted something with regards to the AZ4 lacking the slow motion controls? 

Edited September 5, 2019 by Thor92

[cletrac1922]

J, welcome from Land down under

My first scope was SW 10'' flex dob

Has given me many years of faithful service, and I am also out a couple times per month with my club, doing presentations in schools and scout groups

The hard cover also has a detachable cap, and if you sticky tape visual baader film on the underside, can use for solar viewing

Ensure have finderscope removed

John