First Light: Borg assimilated into Black Ops Astronomy (Night Vision)

[alanjgreen]

Date: Wed 23rd May 2345-0245am      

Scope: Borg 89ED f6.7 (fl 600mm) on Sky-tee2.   Night Vision: PVS-14 with Photonis 4g INTENS.

Eyepieces: 55mm (f3.2 x11), 35mm (f5 x17), 27mm (f6.5 x22), 18.2mm (f9.6 x33).

Filters: Baader 610nm Red, Astronomik 6nm Ha CCD.

Moon: 68%

 

First Light: Borg assimilated into Black Ops Astronomy (Night Vision)

I have owned my PVS-14 Night Vision monocular now for about a month and so far have concentrated on the climax to galaxy season by viewing the biggest galaxies in an attempt to see as many spiral arms as possible before the sky rotates them away and the darkness disappears. All my usage so far has been with my 20" Dobsonian.

With my old enemy, the Moon, also now spoiling my dark skies, it was time to get out the Borg89 and deploy some filters to defeat the moon.

 

Proof of Concept

I had setup around 9pm to make sure my red dot finder was aligned with the scope (at least the Moon is good for something ), and to test reaching focus with the Televue 55mm Plossl which needs loads of out-focus! I have been using a short 150mm tube on my Borg as I had previously been using it with Binoviewers. I have screwed an extra 50mm tube into the main scope body but even with the draw-tube fully extended, I could only reach focus by lifting the 55mm Plossl eyepiece about 5mm up & away from the diagonal (Luckily, it’s a click-lock diagonal and capable of holding the eyepiece firmly even when lifted). With the initial testing completed, I moved everything back inside to wait for it to get dark later...

 

Always Have a Plan

The plan for the night was in two parts (1) grab some Globulars & Galaxies to familiarize myself with the new setup and then (2) move onto the Milky Way later when it swings into view.

 

Part 1: Find some easy Globulars and Galaxies

I was using a manual mount (sky-tee2) and Sky Safari 5 (on ipad) where I have field of view circles on screen showing me what I should be seeing in the eyepiece and allowing me to manually jump around the sky using “2 circles up and 1 circle right” type of movements.

 

M13 – With the 55mm Plossl (x11), M13 was easily located and a tiny fuzzy ball was seen. I added the Baader 610nm Red filter which helped to darken the background but it was only when I switched to the 27mm Panoptic (x22) that the outer stars of the globular started to resolve and a decent view was had. The Globular was still tiny in size but accepting smaller scale is part of the price of "Black Ops Astronomy".

 

M51 – I moved onto the Whirlpool. After messing about on my knees with the red dot finder I got the scope to the right area and quickly located the double galaxy at the eyepiece with the 27mm & 610nm Red filter still loaded. I was impressed to see hints of a circle surrounding the galaxy! I upped the magnification to x33 with the 18.2 DeLite but the background became much darker and although the image scale improved, I felt the circle of arms was less visible that with the 27mm.

(The Night Vision device is f1.2 so it responds better to faster scope speeds, scope speed is increased by using longer focal length eyepieces – I have added some spec detail to the top of this report).

 

M51 – Right time to increase the speed. In with the 35mm Panoptic and 610nm filter. Now there was a definite circle of spiral arms twinkling around the tiny galaxy (x17 magnification). The bridge to the nearby NGC was not seen. Finally, I moved to the 55mm Plossl (x11) and was surprised to see a tiny circle surrounding the galaxy. Seems incredible that you can pull out arm structure at x11 with a 68% moon nearby!

 

M101 – Onto M101 nearby. With a bit of faffing I finally got the small-ish hazy patch centered. It was still a decent size in the 55mm with 610nm filter but with no detail seen within. I decided to remove the 610nm filter “just for a laugh”. The galaxy became brighter with fleeting glimpses of what looked like a circle arm structure (similar to M51) but thicker/chunkier. This structure was only glimpsed with averted and much concentration but an astonishing result really considering the Moon and tiny magnification.

 

Part 2: Exploring the Milky Way

I used the red dot finder to centre the scope on Antares which was pretty low to my southern horizon but easily located.

 

M4 – I had the 55mm Plossl loaded with no filter. When I looked in the eyepiece I could see a large bright well resolved patch of stars next to Antares. “What’s that?”. Consulting Sky Safari, it was M4. It appeared much larger and more resolved than M13. I have never viewed M4 before (it’s too low for my Dob from my Obsy/Shed) so that’s a new Messier for my list!

 

M80 – I navigated over to M80 which turned out to be a disappointment after M4. It was just a tiny fuzzy star at this low magnification.

Right, onto the main event. I decided to just pan up through the sky until I bumped into some Nebula. I attached the Astronomik 6nm Ha CCD filter to the diagonal.

 

M17 Swan – 55mm. The first nebula that I happened upon was M17. Although, I did not recognize it as M17. I had to consult Sky Safari to try to work out what I was looking at! (I have viewed the Swan many times and I know what it looks like – or I thought that I did until now. Wow!) It appeared as a white hot upside down “V” surrounded by nebula on all sides (So much more than the usual “tick”). The familiar circle of nebula to one side was there if you looked but it was lost in the full (previously unseen by me) nebula structure.

M17 – 35mm. Image scale improved and a second lovely view of this nebula. Maybe it was slightly dimmer with the loss of focal ratio but memorable for sure.

(this is the nearest image I can find to what I saw)

Now, knowing where I was in the sky meant that a quick pan over to M16 Eagle was next…

 

M16 Eagle - 55mm. “I can see an Eagle”. What more can I say, it looks like an image! I can see the head, the outstretched wings and a very bright body.

M16 – 35mm. "I can see the Pillars of Creation". Admittedly, they were tiny! But black gaps in the bright body are there. Never thought I would see them and definitely not with an 89mm scope!

(this is the nearest image I can find to what I saw)

 

What could beat that? Well, I only had a few minutes to wait before I stumbled onto the M8 Lagoon nebula. Wow, that just beat the Eagle nebula hands down. I was mesmerized! The view was so good that I am struggling to find an image on the internet to match the view!

 

M8 Lagoon – 55mm. Wow, the nebula is so bright and thick that it stands out and punches you in the face. It looks like you are looking into a swirling black hole. Plenty of variations is brightness within the thick nebula help to give the view real depth.

M8 – 35mm. The detail is breath-taking, lovely long dark lanes revealing lovely shapes and structures within the very bright nebula. I could not tire of this view!

(this is the nearest image I can find to what I saw)

 

M20 Triffid – 55mm. Seen in the same field of view as M8. It was a poor second to the Lagoon mainly due to its small physical size at the eyepiece (Remember this is x11 magnification). However, the 3 pronged black lanes within were clearly visible.

M20 – 35mm. View much improved with larger scale. Lost some brightness from the nebula due to loss of focal ratio but the inner detail was easy to see.

 (this is the nearest image I can find to what I saw)

 

Beaten back by the Dew

I moved onto Cygnus and the North American nebula but the view seemed poor in comparison to what had come before. This surprised me as I can see the bright North American nebula naked eye at x1 magnification using Night Vision and a 1.25” Astronomik 12nm Ha filter. A quick look with my torch down the front on the scope showed that the Borg had succumbed to Dew

 

Final Thoughts

I had a great night. The view of the Lagoon will stay with me forever! The weather is set fair here in the UK so I know that it won’t be too long before I get outside again. I still can’t get over the fact that Night Vision can defeat the Moon. I live in a dark place, SQM 21.6 and when the Moon is up then I am forced to stay indoors – NOT ANYMORE!

 

Clear Skies,

Alan

 

Note: The images that I added are not mine. They are the closest I can find to what I saw, although I only observed them in black and white (no colours) but with varying shades & brightnesses in-between.

[Littleguy80]

Really enjoyable report, Alan. No black ops here but really enjoyed my views of M16 and M17 earlier in the month. M8 was probably my favourite target last summer. Did the massive drop in aperture make much of a difference to the NV besides image scale?

[alanjgreen]

14 minutes ago, Littleguy80 said:

Really enjoyable report, Alan. No black ops here but really enjoyed my views of M16 and M17 earlier in the month. M8 was probably my favourite target last summer. Did the massive drop in aperture make much of a difference to the NV besides image scale?

I have never viewed the stated Sagittarius targets in the big dob but I have for example viewed the Crescent nebula with the 6nm Ha filter in big dob and the difference in brightness is HUGE. The Crescent was better than an image, so bright and so much detail, plus the long focal length of big dob gives me scale too.

I can only assume from my own personal use of NV that these Sagittarius targets would move to another level with all the extra brightness and scale on offer from big dob. The detail would be astounding I am sure.

The smaller aperture and smaller focal length offers a wider field of view and this is where I struggled with big dob the other night on North American nebula and Gamma Cygni - they are just too big! You may have a very bright image but you cannot get the whole nebula into the view.

I have viewed all Sagittarius targets in a C11 SCT and I can say that the M16 Eagle for example was a "puff of dust" at best. The M8 Lagoon was too low to get more than a black lane between two bright patches. Now we are into a whole new ball game...

I am lucky to have the best of both worlds.

Alan

[scarp15]

6 hours ago, alanjgreen said:

I was mesmerized! The view was so good that I am struggling to find an image on the internet to match the view!

 

Say's it all Alan, fabulous session and good referencing with images. I look forward to NV accounts on the Veil, as this is an example of a nebula, that is capable of equalling if not potentially superior visually to that of images.  

[cloudsweeper]

Great, informative report Alan.  Who needs huge apertures and a new Moon??  ?

Doug.

[GavStar]

8 hours ago, alanjgreen said:

 

Right, onto the main event. I decided to just pan up through the sky until I bumped into some Nebula. I attached the Astronomik 6nm Ha CCD filter to the diagonal.

 

M17 Swan – 55mm. The first nebula that I happened upon was M17. Although, I did not recognize it as M17. I had to consult Sky Safari to try to work out what I was looking at! (I have viewed the Swan many times and I know what it looks like – or I thought that I did until now. Wow!) It appeared as a white hot upside down “V” surrounded by nebula on all sides (So much more than the usual “tick”). The familiar circle of nebula to one side was there if you looked but it was lost in the full (previously unseen by me) nebula structure.

M17 – 35mm. Image scale improved and a second lovely view of this nebula. Maybe it was slightly dimmer with the loss of focal ratio but memorable for sure.

(this is the nearest image I can find to what I saw)

Now, knowing where I was in the sky meant that a quick pan over to M16 Eagle was next…

 

M16 Eagle - 55mm. “I can see an Eagle”. What more can I say, it looks like an image! I can see the head, the outstretched wings and a very bright body.

M16 – 35mm. "I can see the Pillars of Creation". Admittedly, they were tiny! But black gaps in the bright body are there. Never thought I would see them and definitely not with an 89mm scope!

(this is the nearest image I can find to what I saw)

 

What could beat that? Well, I only had a few minutes to wait before I stumbled onto the M8 Lagoon nebula. Wow, that just beat the Eagle nebula hands down. I was mesmerized! The view was so good that I am struggling to find an image on the internet to match the view!

 

M8 Lagoon – 55mm. Wow, the nebula is so bright and thick that it stands out and punches you in the face. It looks like you are looking into a swirling black hole. Plenty of variations is brightness within the thick nebula help to give the view real depth.

M8 – 35mm. The detail is breath-taking, lovely long dark lanes revealing lovely shapes and structures within the very bright nebula. I could not tire of this view!

(this is the nearest image I can find to what I saw)

Alan

These are phone photos I took a couple of weeks ago of the swan, eagle and lagoon nebulae in sqm 21+ skies with no moon, using a 100mm Tak, 32mm plossl, 6nm Ha filter and photonis NV 4g monoculars.

So very similar situation and kit to yours. Did your views look like these photos? My views did.??

 

[GavStar]

1 hour ago, scarp15 said:

Say's it all Alan, fabulous session and good referencing with images. I look forward to NV accounts on the Veil, as this is an example of a nebula, that is capable of equalling if not potentially superior visually to that of images.  

NV doesn’t seem to work that well on the Veil in my experience. Here is a photo from sqm 21+ dark skies. The eastern part is decent but the western part isn’t that clear.

 

[scarp15]

39 minutes ago, GavStar said:

NV doesn’t seem to work that well on the Veil in my experience. Here is a photo from sqm 21+ dark skies. The eastern part is decent but the western part isn’t that clear.

 

It is interesting learning of the behaviour for NV in responding to different subjects, based upon your own and other pioneering UK experiences. Look forward to hearing of further encounters applying this technology and for equally traditional dark sky seeking approaches. 

[Stu]

I’ve viewed through Gavin’s NV under light polluted skies through his 160mm (I think?)  I think the beauty of his phone shots are that with the exposure lengths used, they are able to fairly accurately replicate the eyepiece views. You can see how the results improve under the much darker skies on the IOW, something I would love to experience some day.

[alanjgreen]

2 hours ago, GavStar said:

Alan

These are phone photos I took a couple of weeks ago of the swan, eagle and lagoon nebulae in sqm 21+ skies with no moon, using a 100mm Tak, 32mm plossl, 6nm Ha filter and photonis NV 4g monoculars.

So very similar situation and kit to yours. Did your views look like these photos? My views did.??

 

Certainly the Lagoon looks similar. 

The swan is not the same. I was on much lower power and the swan looked more "V" shaped with the rest of the nebula being far greater in size. I really did not recognise it as the Swan, which I have seen many times before with high mag in a C11 and it was a different view and feel altogether.

I would say the Eagle was similar but with more head and outer wingspan areas. 

Next time out, I will get the 27mm Panoptic out for more magnification and see what I get. My hands were cold and I was wearing gloves so I stopped changing eyepieces at this point.

You would probably get more of the outer nebula by sticking with the high speed of the 55mm. It's a different view at each speed used...

Alan

[GavStar]

18 minutes ago, alanjgreen said:

Certainly the Lagoon looks similar. 

The swan is not the same. I was on much lower power and the swan looked more "V" shaped with the rest of the nebula being far greater in size. I really did not recognise it as the Swan, which I have seen many times before with high mag in a C11 and it was a different view and feel altogether.

I would say the Eagle was similar but with more head and outer wingspan areas. 

Next time out, I will get the 27mm Panoptic out for more magnification and see what I get. My hands were cold and I was wearing gloves so I stopped changing eyepieces at this point.

You would probably get more of the outer nebula by sticking with the high speed of the 55mm. It's a different view at each speed used...

Alan

Alan,

The reason I posted my images is that NV doesn’t produce views like photographic images - it has a character all of its own - for emission nebulae this is like huge aperture visual observing but it’s never going to produce the detail of long exposure processed photographic images.

Gavin

[Stargazer McCabe]

11 hours ago, alanjgreen said:

Note: The images that I added are not mine. They are the closest I can find to what I saw, although I only observed them in black and white (no colours) but with varying shades & brightnesses in-between.

 

45 minutes ago, GavStar said:

Alan,

The reason I posted my images is that NV doesn’t produce views like photographic images - it has a character all of its own - for emission nebulae this is like huge aperture visual observing but it’s never going to produce the detail of long exposure processed photographic images.

Gavin

I think with both of you making the point as clearly as this we are well advised that while nv does do some amazing things, it doesn’t yield “processed photographic images”...

But good to have the point Alan made in his first post echoed, so we don’t rush out purchasing it  thinking it might... ??

[GavStar]

7 hours ago, Stargazer McCabe said:

 

I think with both of you making the point as clearly as this we are well advised that while nv does do some amazing things, it doesn’t yield “processed photographic images”...

But good to have the point Alan made in his first post echoed, so we don’t rush out purchasing it  thinking it might... ??

Yes, but I hope it’s clear that the NV views that I have shown are very different from the images in Alan’s first post. 

Even with the qualification, I don’t think the photographic images are a helpful illustration of what the visual views are like using NV monoculars. But others can make the judgement for themselves.

[PeterW]

The view with these new variable gain tubes is much closer to a “normal” view than one expects, the blue tinge is not noticable. @GavStar images are a very good way of conveying what you would see with your own eye. Good “try before you buy” information, unlike imaging where it takes much effort to generate great final images. 

Hiwever I do seekniut deep mono hydrogen alpha images on the web to help me have a reference to guide/confirm what  I think I can see.

 

Peter

[Stargazer McCabe]

6 hours ago, GavStar said:

Yes, but I hope it’s clear that the NV views that I have shown are very different from the images in Alan’s first post. 

Even with the qualification, I don’t think the photographic images are a helpful illustration of what the visual views are like using NV monoculars. But others can make the judgement for themselves.

Alan’s disclaimer was perfectly clear to me. But it never hurts to “belt and brace it” if others hadn’t read his post as carefully... ??

[Stu]

35 minutes ago, Stargazer McCabe said:

Alan’s disclaimer was perfectly clear to me. But it never hurts to “belt and brace it” if others hadn’t read his post as carefully... ??

Agreed, it is worth setting realistic expectations, particularly when the kit costs so much! It is awesome stuff, and I doubt I will ever have as good a view of the Horsehead nebula again, but it it is definitely not like looking at a live long exposure image.

I tweaked Alan’s original image as best I could but even taking it to mono, adding a tint and softening a bit it is still not an ideal reference vs the actual images which are available. I think it is the finer resolution that you don’t get which makes the biggest difference.

[GavStar]

I should add that as PeterW says, the visual image doesn’t really have a significant blue tint. I think it’s the auto white balance on my phone camera going into overdrive. Turning my images into mono is probably a better representation.

in addition the Ha 6nm filter removes a lot of the fainter stars that are shown in the photographic image - only the brighter ones are shown in the NV eyepiece with that filter. Of course with a different filter (eg 685 long pass) you see loads of stars (but lose the emission nebulae)

 

[Stu]

49 minutes ago, GavStar said:

I should add that as PeterW says, the visual image doesn’t really have a significant blue tint. I think it’s the auto white balance on my phone camera going into overdrive. Turning my images into mono is probably a better representation.

in addition the Ha 6nm filter removes a lot of the fainter stars that are shown in the photographic image - only the brighter ones are shown in the NV eyepiece with that filter. Of course with a different filter (eg 685 long pass) you see loads of stars (but lose the emission nebulae)

 

Can you over ride the auto white balance Gavin?

[GavStar]

15 minutes ago, Stu said:

Can you over ride the auto white balance Gavin?

Yes but getting the correct level takes a bit of trial and error (and I quite like the blue ?). But next time I’m taking photos I will take a range and see how it goes.

[alanjgreen]

1. With the feedback received, I will cease posting images in my observing reports

2. I shall continue to post observing reports as I refuse to be bullied off this forum!

Clear skies,

Alan

[Stu]

2 minutes ago, alanjgreen said:

1. With the feedback received, I will cease posting images in my observing reports

2. I shall continue to post observing reports as I refuse to be bullied off this forum!

Clear skies,

Alan

There is no bullying here Alan, there is nothing wrong with differences of opinion. The comments have all been polite and are meant to be helpful and to keep expectations realistic for anyone looking to make such an expensive purchase.

[Littleguy80]

10 minutes ago, alanjgreen said:

1. With the feedback received, I will cease posting images in my observing reports

2. I shall continue to post observing reports as I refuse to be bullied off this forum!

Clear skies,

Alan

Speaking from experience, Alan, Internet forums can be a nightmare. It’s often difficult to interpret tone. I’ve gotten myself upset over things that are probably not at all what I think they are. I value your reports and advice and consider you a valuable member of the forum. I’m sure nothing posted was intended to do anything other than help those who may be interested in NV. Keep on posting  

[PeterW]

Anything that helps people understand what has been seen and can be seen if fair game. Sometimes a deep sky image might be the only way... with the right proviso. Let’s all keep pushing the boundaries and encouraging others.

PEter

[Stu]

2 minutes ago, PeterW said:

Anything that helps people understand what has been seen and can be seen if fair game. Sometimes a deep sky image might be the only way... with the right proviso. Let’s all keep pushing the boundaries and encouraging others.

PEter

Peter, the thing is there are now many adequate NV images out there (on SGL and CN) to illustrate the reality, and if I expected to see even a mono version of that image for my £6k+ then I would be disappointed.

Totally agree that it is great to support progress and adoption of the technology. Pioneers like yourself have selflessly given your knowledge to others who can now reap the benefits, all good.

[scarp15]

As I read Alan's report, my own perception (and perhaps the intention), was that the accompanying images were there to serve as reference points in terms of the nebula characteristic, but not judgmental as an actual observed view. I felt that the images gave the report an additional presentation perspective and that Alan's written descriptions are insightful to gain a sense of the visual experience, without distorting this from the images.

I can fully appreciate the inclusion of Gavster's phone images, conveying more of a clue to the reader in terms of a visual encounter. This quite exciting approach to contemporary visual astronomy, is gaining ground and just may require a bit more 'work in progress' to become more completely established by those currently driven to use and share the experiences. A little more time perhaps for 'settling in' to clarify a compiled reporting format, best expressing this technology. Mean time the quite individual and complementary accounts are working just fine. Who knows, in twelve months from now, perhaps there will be one of two more SGL members also compiling NV reports, as for myself, I will enjoy reading them, maybe one night get a view at a regional star party.