Lowjiber Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 With all due respect to the few who are defending color cams above, let me remind you that Dave (Original Poster) asked about Solar Imaging in the Solar Imaging forum. He wasn't asking about imaging planets, deep space objects, or even his grandmother... His post was aimed at solar imagers. I have my share of success imaging a lot of things in the sky. Do not fool yourself into believing that a color cam can even come close to a mono cam when imaging the sun. It just isn't possible. Clear Skies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davenn Posted January 15, 2018 Author Share Posted January 15, 2018 17 hours ago, Lowjiber said: With all due respect to the few who are defending color cams above, let me remind you that Dave (Original Poster) asked about Solar Imaging in the Solar Imaging forum. He wasn't asking about imaging planets, deep space objects, or even his grandmother... His post was aimed at solar imagers. I have my share of success imaging a lot of things in the sky. Do not fool yourself into believing that a color cam can even come close to a mono cam when imaging the sun. It just isn't possible. Clear Skies Thanks John and to all the additional comments by everyone else since my last post some good gems of info amongst the posts @Zakalwe said ....... "Another thing to consider is the shutter type. A rolling electronic shutter can cause artefacts when using high frame rates. ideally you want a sensor with a global shutter (ASI 174). The other thing to consider is the pixel size. The ASI 174 has 5.86um pixels which are too large for a Lunt 60mm. When I use my 174 on my L60 I get "blocky" artefacts on fine solar proms. It's just about OK with a 2.5 barlow. Really you need something with smaller pixels. Perhaps something like the Point Grey Chameleon 3- 3.45um pixels. https://www.ptgrey.com/chameleon3-50-mp-mono-usb3-vision-sonyimx264 The 174 works superbly with a Quark as you are imaging at >f20. it also makes a great Lunar camera." thanks for that, it's gems like this that are really helpful The ZWOASI 178MM doesn't state what sort of shutter it has and it has 2.4 micron pixels so that fits within your suggestion well Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zakalwe Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 54 minutes ago, Davenn said: The ZWOASI 178MM doesn't state what sort of shutter it has and it has 2.4 micron pixels so that fits within your suggestion well The 178 has a rolling shutter https://astronomy-imaging-camera.com/products/asi-cooled-cameras/asi-178mm-cool/ I have no personal experience of using a rolling shutter for solar work, but people who have vastly more experience than me do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zakalwe Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 7 minutes ago, Zakalwe said: I have no personal experience of using a rolling shutter for solar work, but people who have vastly more experience than me do. Actually...I tell a lie! I've had a root through my solar album. This image was taken with my ASI1600 mounted on the Lunt L60 with a 50mm front mounted etalon: ASI1600 Lunt DS 60 Inverted Mono by Stephen Jennette, on Flickr It seems to have come out OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davenn Posted January 15, 2018 Author Share Posted January 15, 2018 1 hour ago, Zakalwe said: The 178 has a rolling shutter https://astronomy-imaging-camera.com/products/asi-cooled-cameras/asi-178mm-cool/ Ahhh thanks for that ... just a little more info there than on the BINTEL sales site ... tho it was still pretty good It may be worth risking any possible rolling shutter issues to get the optimal pixel size I really don't have the $1000's to spend on some of these other makes and models 1 hour ago, Zakalwe said: I have no personal experience of using a rolling shutter for solar work, but people who have vastly more experience than me do. interesting read, cheers Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davenn Posted January 15, 2018 Author Share Posted January 15, 2018 1 hour ago, Zakalwe said: Actually...I tell a lie! I've had a root through my solar album. This image was taken with my ASI1600 mounted on the Lunt L60 with a 50mm front mounted etalon: outstanding !! ZWO ASI1600MM Monochrome $1,271.82 AUD Generous sized CMOS sensor with resolution of 4656 x 3520 (16 mega pixels). 21.9mm across the diagonal 3.8 micron pixels 23FPS at full resolution with USB3.0 Read noise of 1.2e @ 30dB gain 20K electron full well capacity at AU$1272 .... it's on the borderline of serious consideration it would be an absolute max amount I'm willing to spend my 2 serious considerations AU$890 for the ASI 178MM or AU$1272 for the ASI 1600MM really appreciate your time responding Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zakalwe Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Mine is the cooled one. Personally, I thought that it was overkill for the Lunt. It's a heavy old lump to have hanging off the B1200 blocking diagonal and it needed a LOT of tilt to eliminate the Newton's Rings. Plus the sensor is too big* and it needed a ROI to try and keep the file size down. I also like to use a higher frame rate than 20FPS. If you decide on the 1600 then don't bother with the cooling.....it's not needed for solar work at all. A 2.5x barlow will fill the frame. It does make it very easy to get a full disc image! I normally use the ASI174 and my Powermate 2.5 on my Lunt L60. That seems to be the sweet spot for me and I'm getting the max resolution out of the 60mm (for my limited abilities and location). It takes 3 panes to get a full disc with this setup, but the 174 rattles off a lot of frames much, much more quickly than the 1600. The 174 matches my Quark very well, so at the moment it's my "goto" camera for solar work (works nicely on my C11 for Lunar and planetary too). Large Prom 18th August by Stephen Jennette, on Flickr *What a time to be into this game! I remember trying to image using the tiny DMK21 sensor!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Presland Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 For H/A images its mono for me as well, still using the old DMK21au618. No newton rings and I still think it produces better looking images for me than my Asi120mm. Its all about personal experiences though I guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewan Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 On 13/01/2018 at 23:45, LightBucket said: Maybe so, but I am not one of them....in certain situation yes mono wins, but also in certain situations OSC wins, I am not just talking about solar imaging, but across the field...I would say 60, 40 in favour of mono, there is plenty of room for OSC in this hobby.. Your right of course there is room in astronomy for any equipment even your eyes for observing. What is being stated here for the OP is that mono is better for Solar Imaging. No one is 'dissing' the OSC, in fact I have seen some stunning images taken with them, they save the user time & you get a 'finished' image faster but mono is still better in the long run. As stated when solar imaging all you want to capture is 'Reds' nothing more, the other collected data has no information of interest so the whole of a mono sensor is collecting usable data, not so with OSC. All equipment / instruments have their place & what's best is that you can get into this hobby with the minimal of gear & experience. Atb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightBucket Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 3 hours ago, Ewan said: Your right of course there is room in astronomy for any equipment even your eyes for observing. What is being stated here for the OP is that mono is better for Solar Imaging. No one is 'dissing' the OSC, in fact I have seen some stunning images taken with them, they save the user time & you get a 'finished' image faster but mono is still better in the long run. As stated when solar imaging all you want to capture is 'Reds' nothing more, the other collected data has no information of interest so the whole of a mono sensor is collecting usable data, not so with OSC. All equipment / instruments have their place & what's best is that you can get into this hobby with the minimal of gear & experience. Atb Point taken, but if you use a 16mp OSC camera then only 4mp are catching the red light, correct, but that is the same as using a 4mp mono camera.....correct...which is more than enough for solar... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin66 Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 Hmmmm much easilier to just use an appropriate mono camera with high frame rate..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightBucket Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 22 minutes ago, Merlin66 said: Hmmmm much easilier to just use an appropriate mono camera with high frame rate..... Lol, yes you are correct, i was just making the point that there is a place, albeit small for a OSC, whether solar or other imaging, and i will say no more on the matter, as its taking away what the thread is about.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanL Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 I use a 174MM with my LS60/B1200. I do sometimes get a bit of very wide banding but nothing like the alternating stripes in the example above. I'm not sure why as I don't use a tilt adaptor at all - maybe the optical train just happens to be mechanically aligned in a fortunate manner on my set-up. The full disk as 2x Barlow images I get are both pretty good in my view. Usually seeing is the limiting factor for me so short exposures and a high frame rate are both critical. The more frames you can capture in 15 or 30 seconds the better as a lot of the features are pretty dynamic and can noticeably change over the course of a couple of minutes which would lead to blurring. I also have a 1600MM-C which I've never tried it on the Lunt, but seeing the image above (I know it's a double stack but even so) I think I might have to give it a go some time. Example of a capture with LS60, 174MM and cheapo 2X Barlow: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zakalwe Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 On 18/01/2018 at 09:39, LightBucket said: Point taken, but if you use a 16mp OSC camera then only 4mp are catching the red light, correct, but that is the same as using a 4mp mono camera.....correct...which is more than enough for solar... Not really, no. The resolution on the mono should be higher. Secondly, the green and blue pixels in the OSC don't switch off...they will generate noise which can end up in the final image. No one is saying that you can't use OSC for H-a imaging. The OP was asking if a mono camera would be better for solar imaging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.thumb.jpg.d6a6ce39835c4f468dc768469bb959dd.jpg)
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.