Aliens- do they exist??

[saac]

On 01/11/2017 at 19:54, Alien 13 said:

I think the R is missing, the last two though should be any form of energy change either chemical/heat or electromagnetic unless we only consider organic life..

Alan

Alan

Good spot Alan, the second R is respiration - the release of energy from the nutrients.

Jim

[Davey-T]

9 hours ago, Filroden said:

I wonder if we will, or any life form, will ever be able to travel between systems. With a sample size of 1 it seems that intelligent life develops the capabilities to kill itself before developing the capabilities to travel between the stars. Is all life doomed to limit itself through violence, hence no evidence of aliens?

What's needed is a planet with only one continent then hopefully they won't have spent hundreds of years sailing around invading and killing everyone different

Dave

[Stub Mandrel]

2 hours ago, Badweather said:

But perhaps even Mr. Hawking is projecting our bad ways of "thinking" onto these aliens?

Inferiority complex. He's worried they might be cleverer than he is

[Stub Mandrel]

1 hour ago, Davey-T said:

What's needed is a planet with only one continent then hopefully they won't have spent hundreds of years sailing around invading and killing everyone different

Dave

True, you would be able to conquer and enslave 'Pangea' much more rapidly.

[Filroden]

1 hour ago, Davey-T said:

What's needed is a planet with only one continent then hopefully they won't have spent hundreds of years sailing around invading and killing everyone different

Dave

Unfortunately, I suspect the development of intelligence leading to sufficient development of tools and technology is driven through the need to stay safe - of which there are two extreme strategies...offence and defence...both of which lead to militarisation and development of technologies that destroy. We're at a stage in our technological development where we have countless ways to destroy not only our own species but all species on the planet and we have probably centuries away from being able to realistically travel between the stars. What are the odds we achieve the latter before the former?

The alternative is that any lifeform that avoids destruction and does develop the capability to travel between systems has probably also reached the conclusion that it shouldn't travel between the systems because of the harm that might cause.

[Davey-T]

5 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

True, you would be able to conquer and enslave 'Pangea' much more rapidly.

Yes exactly, one good dictator would have the whole population in line in no time, then they just have to survive a couple of revolutions and it's upwards to the stars

Dave

[Alien 13]

The best hope for us is to all become "Borg" then we all have the same goals and aims, "resistance is futile"..

Alan

[Delasaurus]

2 hours ago, Badweather said:

so in actuality, the likelihood is that any hypothetical aliens stopping by earth would possibly be coming in peace, but earth being the arrogant oil burning apes we are might turn a potentially good situation bad by using what I like to call Intelligance Lite, and boiling everything down to how much money we could make off of it, and how many people we could kill with it and only being able to see the universe through that lens.

Sadly I think that would be the way, yes.

Could we really, with our war mongering history born out of fear, see any potential aliens that arrived being asked to a welcoming state banquet by the UN?

Let's face it, if I or you were to genuinely witness an alien landing of any scale, the first thing we are going to be is in shock, the second thing we are most likely to do is phone the police. And they are going to put the defence services on high alert. What happens next? An evacuation of the neighbourhood, which means we would be ushered into a secure 'camp' somewhere by men in white suits, to stop the spread of panic. And the armed forces are going to surround them with every technological gadget they have at their disposal. A worldwide news blackout will prevail until said aliens are assessed for their hostility, containment and their level of threat from disease determined.

War of the Worlds...what else could we do?

[Badweather]

11 minutes ago, Delasaurus said:

Sadly I think that would be the way, yes.

Could we really, with our war mongering history born out of fear, see any potential aliens that arrived being asked to a welcoming state banquet by the UN?

Let's face it, if I or you were to genuinely witness an alien landing of any scale, the first thing we are going to be is in shock, the second thing we are most likely to do is phone the police. And they are going to put the defence services on high alert. What happens next? An evacuation of the neighbourhood, which means we would be ushered into a secure 'camp' somewhere by men in white suits, to stop the spread of panic. And the armed forces are going to surround them with every technological gadget they have at their disposal. A worldwide news blackout will prevail until said aliens are assessed for their hostility, containment and their level of threat from disease determined.

War of the Worlds...what else could we do?

I know, it's hard to imagine that we might imagine our way out of our rigid thinking on this. Since I love history, I know the one thing we learn from history is that we don't learn from history. so...

It's hard wired into us to fear the other it would appear.

Although there is plenty of evidence of life not being afraid of itself on earth as well. It's just not the norm.

The main reason for the behavior you cited is the notion that being the first to make contact would be of immeasurable advantage in term of our grasp upon a higher technology.

But the chances are high that while the warhawks would attempt to control the situation, aliens would go where ever they wanted and do whatever they wanted.

My favorite fantasy regarding first contact is one where the aliens land, are taken into custody, pretend to not be able to escape, get studied, and actually be studying us. At the end of which, the alien or aliens, just get up and walk out through the prison walls or whatever and leave with the message that they'll be back when we realize that there is "no other".

Because what's a good alien contact film / fantasy without a good philosophical point to make. That we are just arrogant oil burning apes doing the ooh ah ah....

[Davey-T]

14 minutes ago, Badweather said:

I know, it's hard to imagine that we might imagine our way out of our rigid thinking on this. Since I love history, I know the one thing we learn from history is that we don't learn from history. so...
Because what's a good alien contact film / fantasy without a good philosophical point to make. That we are just arrogant oil burning apes doing the ooh ah ah....

Good bit of paraphrasing there from sometime "American" philosopher Jorge Santayana, one of his well known aphorisms.

Dave

[Delasaurus]

5 minutes ago, Badweather said:

That we are just arrogant oil burning apes doing the ooh ah ah....

Quite sad really. I've noticed it quite a lot being that I'm autistic. Being able to read peoples emotions is quite difficult for me, by nature (or at least some years ago) I was quite happy and friendly to everyone until I realised they we're taking advantage. So the only way to survive that is to toughen up...hostility versus hostility. I don't want it...it's what is dished out in whatever environment we find ourselves in. If we look at some of the awful ways of the internet in being defensive and abusive..it is something that rubs off on us in daily life. I really find it quite difficult to see if someone is taking the p or not on the internet.

So an alien invasion?, Well it has to be....

'Return to the Planet of the Apes'

 

[Badweather]

2 minutes ago, Davey-T said:

Good bit of philosophical paraphrasing there from sometime "American" philosopher Jorge Santayana, one of his well known aphorisms.

Dave

Thanks Dave!

I consider myself a misanthropologist but usually I just do stand up philosophy like Diogenes of Sinope when he brought a plucked chicken into Platos hall and plopped it down on a stool and proclaimed: "Look, it's Plato's human" which Plato had so cleverly defined as "Bipedal, without feathers" Plato was upset and called him Socrates gone mad, but everyone laughed and Plato was in fact forced to refine his definition of a human to include "Broad flat nails" as well.

So the school of cynicism is a thing i think is real. Getting people to leap past their own BS with humor is a science we desperately need to survive and be regarded as an intelligent species.

So I read a lot. In hopes of finding a way to communicate with my own species.

[Davey-T]

4 minutes ago, Delasaurus said:

Quite sad really. I've noticed it quite a lot being that I'm autistic. Being able to read peoples emotions is quite difficult for me, by nature (or at least some years ago) I was quite happy and friendly to everyone until I realised they we're taking advantage. So the only way to survive that is to toughen up...hostility versus hostility. I don't want it...it's what is dished out in whatever environment we find ourselves in. If we look at some of the awful ways of the internet in being defensive and abusive..it is something that rubs off on us in daily life. I really find it quite difficult to see if someone is taking the p or not on the internet.

So an alien invasion?, Well it has to be....

'Return to the Planet of the Apes'

 

Genetically implanted I guess, survival of the fittest has mutated into internet trolling.

Dave

[Badweather]

5 minutes ago, Delasaurus said:

Quite sad really. I've noticed it quite a lot being that I'm autistic. Being able to read peoples emotions is quite difficult for me, by nature (or at least some years ago) I was quite happy and friendly to everyone until I realised they we're taking advantage. So the only way to survive that is to toughen up...hostility versus hostility. I don't want it...it's what is dished out in whatever environment we find ourselves in. If we look at some of the awful ways of the internet in being defensive and abusive..it is something that rubs off on us in daily life. I really find it quite difficult to see if someone is taking the p or not on the internet.

So an alien invasion?, Well it has to be....

'Return to the Planet of the Apes'

 

I agree.

It is terrible.

I wear my heart on my sleeve because I think that is a better way to be than all stoic. Not a fan of stoicism.

But it is hard to know when someone is trying to take advantage of you. No matter how good you are at looking at someone and knowing, you never really know because there are some real good actors out there. And my dopamine systems are sharp as a tack and still, my cat is better at it than me. So if he doesn't trust someone, I don't either. Dogs are even better at it than humans.

So I keep cats around me because they're without guile. The conversations I have with them are cleaner than the conversations I have with most humans. I have a few good friends that understand me and that's it.

Otherwise I am unfathomable to most humans.

 

[Delasaurus]

10 minutes ago, Davey-T said:

Genetically implanted I guess, survival of the fittest has mutated into internet trolling.

That in itself shows how humankind has progressed. Instead of sitting behind the screens of field guns firing ammunition, we sit behind our monitor screens firing ammunition. You know the more I think about this the more convinced I am that we may as well rule intelligence off the list of humankind and leave it to the michondria!

[Delasaurus]

21 minutes ago, Badweather said:

So I read a lot. In hopes of finding a way to communicate with my own species.

Rule of the jungle still survives, which is why we still have the armed forces

A few brave folk, like Gandy have tried to lead the world toward a higher consciouness for each other but if we explore human learning, and as you say we never quite learn from history despite education being at it's highest levels for all, for centuries, humans just don't learn. Period.

Intelligence is often used in manipulative ways and communications will always carry a certain amount of self-importance. We only need to look at actresses and actors, playrights and poets to witness that. The Media..per se.

Are we any closer then to what aliens might make of us?

[Davey-T]

22 minutes ago, Delasaurus said:

That in itself shows how humankind has progressed. Instead of sitting behind the screens of field guns firing ammunition, we sit behind our monitor screens firing ammunition. You know the more I think about this the more convinced I am that we may as well rule intelligence off the list of humankind and leave it to the michondria!

We had our chance with the dawning of the Age of Aquarius when the world was just a great big onion now it's more of a great big time bomb

Dave

[Alien 13]

The trouble with intelligence is that it is aimed at advancing or procreating each ones personal or sometimes family DNA and nothing more, pets have the right attitude..

Getting back on topic I think we are far more likely to contact the Aliens intelligent machines that may be very small and would probably never get noticed.

Alan

[Delasaurus]

27 minutes ago, Alien 13 said:

 

 

33 minutes ago, Davey-T said:

We had our chance with the dawning of the Age of Aquarius when the world was just a great big onion now it's more of a great big time bomb

Dave

Do you think then, that there is a higher consciouness that plays it's part on intelligence and development? The dawning of the age of Aquarius, led to high hopes for mankind. It was an exciting time where the whole world was in hope of something good. Just as with the phases of the moon, which cause our police forces to put higher numbers of the plod on standby, perhaps galactic forces play a bigger part in how we develop at certain periods than we realise. Astrology if you like, rather than astronomy?

If the moon can pull extremely large amounts of our oceans around, can it pull our emotions around and affect our global behavour?

Do you think that current planet positions are entering us into an age of darkness, whereby it is beyound our intellectual control? If we can answer that, then it puts a whole missing chapter on the notion of free will and intellect. Or simply, chance.

And if the moon affects our behavour and intellect, then it must surely affect that of lower organisms? And so in the great big Universal soup of things, does the Universe have control of us, rather than we suspecting that we have control of ourselves?

Perhaps we are not ready to receive aliens yet if they are around?

 

 

[Davey-T]

Steady on that's veering toward astrology, you'll get us censored 

I think the human race as a whole is pretty xenophobic, if that's not a contradiction, obsessed with our own problems when in cosmological terms we've not been here long and probably won't be here much longer so all pretty immaterial in the grand scheme of things, no one will miss us when we and the Earth are gone unless some aliens in a distant world notice the event in a dispassionate, interesting astronomical way.

Dave

[Alien 13]

This is a far to good a thread to get into the dodgy subjects, the universe and local conditions for example the existence of a moon or not are important in the development of life. I have always been fascinated with the relationship with plants (no or little intelligence) and insects and it seems that the plants are the drivers.

Alan

[Davey-T]

2 minutes ago, Alien 13 said:

This is a far to good a thread to get into the dodgy subjects, the universe and local conditions for example the existence of a moon or not are important in the development of life. I have always been fascinated with the relationship with plants (no or little intelligence) and insects and it seems that the plants are the drivers.

Alan

As they say, you catch more flies with honey, I've got a few carnivorous plants and the flies never learn 

Dave

[Alien 13]

9 minutes ago, Davey-T said:

As they say, you catch more flies with honey, I've got a few carnivorous plants and the flies never learn 

Dave

I have a nice flytrap and a pitcher plant, mine like beef mince too.

Alan

[Stub Mandrel]

1 hour ago, Alien 13 said:

The trouble with intelligence is that it is aimed at advancing or procreating each ones personal or sometimes family DNA and nothing more, pets have the right attitude..

That's the DNA doing its job

[Delasaurus]

38 minutes ago, Davey-T said:

Steady on that's veering toward astrology, you'll get us censored 

Well since I'm always in trouble...thought I wouldn't let an opportunity go by

Anyone remember;

Erich von Däniken

according to him we were already visited.