Double Trouble

[davyludo]

Ahhhhh, finally - a decent session (3 hours) with my new toys! Nothing quite like it to make you feel happy inside again...and convince yourself that the money was worth spending 

Decided to go all out last night and setup the mak 127 (with 6x30 RACI onAZ5) and the ST102 (with RDF on AZ4) side by side. I've just bought a Skywatcher Aero ED 30mm to use, so decided that was staying in the ST all night long. This was also the first proper extended session for the mak 127 and the AZ5.

Anyway, started off in Lyra again (starting to learn my way about it quite well). Grabbed M57 with the mak (25mm X-cel and 15mm SLV) looked great in both - a bit brighter than I remember seeing it with the ST102, but maybe my eyes were playing tricks with me. Tried to split the double double with the mak but struggled a bit - could get C and D (just) at 166x, but just couldn't get the other 2 to separate (tried 200x but no luck). Tried a star test on vega and got nice even rings, so I think it's collimated, maybe just bad seeing? Grabbed Delta and Zeta doubles while I was in the area.

Moved over to Albireo, lovely in the mak both with 25mm and 15mm again. Had a peek at M27, tried my new UHC filter but it seemed to make things too faint. Switched to the ST102 and Aero 30mm, grabbed the Coathanger (framed beautifully by black velvet surrounding skies) and then went for a scan around Cygnus. WOW! Such an immersive experience, spent a good 20 minutes just drifting about. Was up around Sadr and could easily pick out a clump that was M29, was really nice to be able to see it surrounded by so many other stars. Navigated to the eastern and western veil - could see lots of stars but sadly no nebulosity.

Decided to be brave and try to see Neptune and Uranus using the mak. Neptune was fairly easy to find as it was close to Hydor, so I hopped to it with the RACI and managed to get it in view in the 25mm. Could see a slight blue tinge when I averted my gaze, but if I'd been looking right at it I could easily has mistaken it for just another star. Uranus took a bit longer to find as there was a period of rolling clouds, so I kept getting lost in Pisces and having to start again (Hamal in Aries was my visible starting point for hopping). Eventually found it though, couldn't pick out any colour - this really did just look like a star. Still, I bagged them and I was pleased with how easily I could work the Mak around the sky on the AZ5 (was worried after so many people suggesting GOTO for the mak). 

Back to the ST102 for a look at Andromeda....last time I was disappointed as I could only see the centre, but this time I could see some more shape to it. The Aero 30mm showed it up beautifully though. Really pleased. Moved down and grabbed NGC 752 and M34. The Aero is really nice for open clusters, lovely to see a cluster surrounded by a sea of stars. Could see Pleiades clearly with the naked eye, this is a favourite of mine from when I started a few years ago - glided the ST and Aero combo down to it, peeked through the eyepiece. Ouch....my jaw is still sore from hitting the floor. What a sight! I've seen Pleiades many times before (in my astromaster 76mm newt) but last night I was utterly gobsmacked. Might be the first time I've seen it in the ST., stars were just lovely pin point spots of bright light, didn't know there were that many stars in it. I must have spent 15 minutes just staring at it. Amazing how something you've seen before can still impress you so much. 

I was getting cold now but Cassiopeia was above me and I've never had the chance to look at it before so I decided to catch a few more treasures. First stop, a quick look at the owl cluster with both scopes. The mak and 25mm x-cel was perfect for it and I Could make out the owl shape, with its 2 bright eyes and open wings (well that's what I could see anyway). Had a wee smile to myself as my girlfriend has a soft spot for owls and she would have been amazed to see this. Decided to grab Perseus double cluster - accidentally found myself in what I think might be the heart and soul nebulas with the Aero. Couldn't make out nebulosity, but looked like 2 large open clusters to me.eventually got back on track - the Aero fov was a bit big for me to enjoy it to be honest and the mak with 25mm jusu clipped the edges off. Think the ST102 and 15mm SLV would be perfect - will try this next time. Finished off with Caroline's Rose, not as impressive as the owl cluster but a nice open cluster regardless.

Then it was time to pack up and come back inside for a hot chocolate and bed.

Thoughts:

1) RACI is a must for me with the mak, although I find it difficult to line up with first star. Hopping is easy once I know where I am, but there were a couple of times when I started on the wrong star and got lost/confused. I'd like to add an RDF or telrad to get me in the area, then move to RACI for hopping. 

2) love the AZ5 and mak combo. Could do with a sturdier tripod. Normally I would have used the steel legs from AZ4 but it had the ST102 on it. As long as the AZ5 legs aren't extended then it's stable enough for me...although for owl cluster I was actually lying on the ground to get the the eyepiece.

3) originally wanted the Aero 35mm for my ST, but a used 30mm came up for a good price so I grabbed it. It only gives me 1 degree more than 25mm x-cel, but it feels like more. I'm unsure as to whether the 35mm might be too much (7.14mm exit pupil and arou d 4.75 degrees fov). Need to read and ask about this.

4) don't be ashamed to view the same things again. More than half of last night's objects had been viewed before, but I loved revisiting them and feel that I've seen more in them by looking again. Plus...it lets me become more accustomed to an area of sky. 

5) think I'm addicted to sky safari, it was with me all night and was invaluable when hopping with the mak.

6) hot chocolate after a good session tastes REALLY good 

[scarp15]

Very good session, patience was needed for the moon to set, after which there were some pretty good clear skies, for the North East at least. Your point four is highly valid, becoming reacquainted with familiar objects frequently or periodically each season is invariably rewarding.

[Stu]

Great read Davy. Couldn't agree more about revisiting objects. I never bore of viewing my old favourites and often that it far more rewarding under my skies than trying and failing to find new stuff. I leave that for dark sky trips.

The Mak may struggle with filters due to the smaller exit pupil. It may be worth trying either a 32mm or even 40mm Plossl. The 40mm won't give you wider fov but will give a larger exit pupil to brighten a filtered view a little. Still only 3.3mm but best you will get.

[DavidJM]

Great read, I've been obsessed by Cygnus the last month or so and can vouch for the value of going back, also love the coat hanger, just long for some decent nights, they have been very sparse of late

[davyludo]

21 minutes ago, Stu said:

Great read Davy. Couldn't agree more about revisiting objects. I never bore of viewing my old favourites and often that it far more rewarding under my skies than trying and failing to find new stuff. I leave that for dark sky trips.

The Mak may struggle with filters due to the smaller exit pupil. It may be worth trying either a 32mm or even 40mm Plossl. The 40mm won't give you wider fov but will give a larger exit pupil to brighten a filtered view a little. Still only 3.3mm but best you will get.

Ahhh, I hadn't thought about that. Silly me. I'll give it a shot in the ST102 because I can get a decent exit pupil on that. See if that makes a difference.  Thanks for pointing that out Stu 

I was worried I'd get bored because I'd just end up looking at the same things under light polluted skies. But it's nice to mix sessions up with both new and old.

[davyludo]

4 minutes ago, DavidJM said:

Great read, I've been obsessed by Cygnus the last month or so and can vouch for the value of going back, also love the coat hanger, just long for some decent nights, they have been very sparse of late

It's a constellation I didn't know anything about (being relatively new to astronomy). But I've really enjoyed exploring it, especially with a wide field view and just scanning. And I know there's a lot more I haven't found yet! 

[DavidJM]

1 minute ago, davyludo said:

It's a constellation I didn't know anything about (being relatively new to astronomy). But I've really enjoyed exploring it, especially with a wide field view and just scanning. And I know there's a lot more I haven't found yet! 

Same here, bought my first scope only last January and with my best views to the south I'm finding it an amazing journey every month as the constellations move along, quite happy just to go out with my 10x50 bins and wonder around some nights

[davyludo]

19 minutes ago, DavidJM said:

Same here, bought my first scope only last January and with my best views to the south I'm finding it an amazing journey every month as the constellations move along, quite happy just to go out with my 10x50 bins and wonder around some nights

My best views are to the south as well. Hence why Cassiopeia was a new target for me. Don't really know any of the northern constellations. 

I spent quite a by of time around Orion last year, really looking forward to him coming back around and be well positioned for me to observe. Have a wee look around there in a month or so (If you're not already familiar). 

[Stu]

South is the best direction to have a clear view in anyway so that's great!

Cygnus is one of my favourites, with a scope, binoculars or naked eye with the Milky Way streaming through it. Beautiful.

Certainly for objects like the Veil or NAN, the ST102 will be better for filtered views at low power as you will be able to get to 6 mm with the 30mm which will be great under a dark sky. Might need a bit smaller for light polluted skies.

[andrew63]

Some really fine sights Davy and the AZ5 sounds like a good mount. I viewed some of those targets last night with a Celestron 102 and binoculars before the haze developed. NGC 752 Caldwell 28 is a nice misty haze of stars, and M34 is a real show stopper -think I preferred the view through binoculars as it was framed with even more sky and stars !  That aero 30 sounds lovely with the 102.

andrew

[davyludo]

40 minutes ago, andrew63 said:

Some really fine sights Davy and the AZ5 sounds like a good mount. I viewed some of those targets last night with a Celestron 102 and binoculars before the haze developed. NGC 752 Caldwell 28 is a nice misty haze of stars, and M34 is a real show stopper -think I preferred the view through binoculars as it was framed with even more sky and stars !  That aero 30 sounds lovely with the 102.

andrew

Personally I really like the AZ5. I feel it's perfect for the shorter length scopes. The AZ4 would probably be more stable for longer OTAs....but I don't have one so it's not a problem! 

It was my first time grabbing open clusters in that area of the sky. I must admit, I do have a fondness for open clusters. Something about them.

I think the aero suits my needs pretty well - I wanted something to give me a nice wide view (almost like a binocular) and it definitely delivered. Like I say, I was originally thinking about the 35mm (being greedy and wanting close to 5 degrees out of the ST102) but I'm really happy with the 30mm.

I wonder if the 35mm would start to make the sky a bit less dark due to surrounding light pollution. I'll maybe try one in the future if a second hand one pops up for a good price. But as a fellow 102 owner and fan of open clusters....if you get the chance of a cheap Aero 30mm, grab it and give it a try! Because I think it's fantastic 

[davyludo]

Boom! Mak cooled for 45 minutes, just got the double double split into all 4 stars. Chuffed to bits.

Looks like it's going to be another clear night here in Edinburgh. Two in a row.... I'm suspicious. This isn't normal...

[Mark at Beaufort]

7 minutes ago, davyludo said:

Boom! Mak cooled for 45 minutes, just got the double double split into all 4 stars. Chuffed to bits.

Looks like it's going to be another clear night here in Edinburgh. Two in a row.... I'm suspicious. This isn't normal...

You could be in for a good night having split the double double. Enjoy your session look forward to the observing report. Hereford under cloud.

[davyludo]

10 minutes ago, Mark at Beaufort said:

You could be in for a good night having split the double double. Enjoy your session look forward to the observing report. Hereford under cloud.

Had a look at the moon and the view is definitely less 'shimmery' than last night. Hopefully a nice crisp night. Going to get everything setup, have a coffee and then sit outside for a bit.

Sorry to hear it's cloudy your way 

[Paz]

I agree a great set up for finding things yourself is a telrad or rdf just to get the target in the raci finder, then the raci finder to get the main scope on target, and sky safari for map reading.

 

[Stu]

Have a great night's observing Davy. Maybe try some higher power targets if the seeing is good? Globs like M13, 92, 15 and 2 should be reasonably well placed and will cope with the moon better than nebulae, although M57 and 27 should still look ok. Plenty of other targets around in Cassiopeia for instance further from the moon.

[davyludo]

10 minutes ago, Stu said:

Have a great night's observing Davy. Maybe try some higher power targets if the seeing is good? Globs like M13, 92, 15 and 2 should be reasonably well placed and will cope with the moon better than nebulae, although M57 and 27 should still look ok. Plenty of other targets around in Cassiopeia for instance further from the moon.

Thanks Stu, I've not tried globs with the mak yet. Unfortunately there is a house blocking m13. It's on my list though.

Just tried m57 and there is nothing tonight, looked alright last night. Giving nebula a miss tonight! 

[davyludo]

29 minutes ago, Paz said:

I agree a great set up for finding things yourself is a telrad or rdf just to get the target in the raci finder, then the raci finder to get the main scope on target, and sky safari for map reading.

 

Seems like a fairly sensible approach. Part of the fun for me is navigating and finding things....but I need to give myself a fighting chance  

[Stu]

3 minutes ago, davyludo said:

Thanks Stu, I've not tried globs with the mak yet. Unfortunately there is a house blocking m13. It's on my list though.

Just tried m57 and there is nothing tonight, looked alright last night. Giving nebula a miss tonight! 

Shame, any chance of M2 or 15? In a different part of the sky.

NGC 457 in Cass is fun if you haven't seen it already (well I still find it fun after many viewings!)

[davyludo]

48 minutes ago, Stu said:

Shame, any chance of M2 or 15? In a different part of the sky.

NGC 457 in Cass is fun if you haven't seen it already (well I still find it fun after many viewings!)

Just got M2 and M15! I've seen them with the ST102 before but they both definitely look better in the mak with some magnification. The SLV 15mm works well on both. Can JUST tell that it's points of light rather than a smokey grey smudge that I've seen before. 

Dew has taken down finder scope... don't have a few shield... fear the mak will go soon!

Edit: just realised ngc457 is owl cluster. Saw that for the first time last night. Really liked it, will revisit that one as often as I can.

[chiltonstar]

Mak + altaz mount + Skysafari is certainly an excellent way to see the Night Sky!

Chris

[davyludo]

18 minutes ago, chiltonstar said:

Mak + altaz mount + Skysafari is certainly an excellent way to see the Night Sky!

Chris

I'm definitely finding this a good combo. And to think I was scared of getting a mak before I got one! 

Only thing now....wish I had the ST120 instead if the 102. Bit more aperture for them pesky DSOs. Oh I feel a fever coming over me.... aperture fever!

[chiltonstar]

7 hours ago, davyludo said:

I'm definitely finding this a good combo. And to think I was scared of getting a mak before I got one! 

Only thing now....wish I had the ST120 instead if the 102. Bit more aperture for them pesky DSOs. Oh I feel a fever coming over me.... aperture fever!

I started with a 102mm frac, and it was a superb intro to astronomy for 30 years......but then I wanted more aperture (and convenience) which is how I went down the Mak route. First 127mm, then 180mm which seemed a good way to get the aperture of a larger frac without the huge cost and the long tube which would have required me to be on my back on icy ground during the Winter - not to be recommended at my age! I was turned off reflectors at an early age after I was asked to babysit one for 6 months while its owner was in the US, and to be honest, it just didn't suit even though it performed reasonably well when collimated.

Chris

[domstar]

Hi Davy,

I've just seen this. Great report. Could you let us (me) know how your UHC filter goes in your ST102. I have a 4inch frac and would be interested to know what you think. I'm not the sort of guy who happily shells out over 40 quid for a small piece of glass but you know what happens when it gets cloudy. Having said that I've just ordered an Aero 30mm but I won't get it til November and I probably won't be allowed to use it till Christmas. How do you rate yours? (Man, I sound self-obsessed) Cracking report anyway.

[John]

A UHC in a Skywatcher ED100 showed me the Veil Nebula for the 1st time ever a few years back

The nebula was invisible in the scope without the filter in place. Well worth £40 to me just to see that object