I want to photograph the cheese on the moon

[the lemming]

Hello

 

Last night I took some shots of the moon with my camera on a tripod.  The plan was to install some software and then stack the images.  However I have discovered that things are not that simple and I would very much appreciate any advice to get a good image of the moon and all the lovely cheese on it.

 

I downloaded Registax but it kept crashing.  I initially used RAW images then I had to convert to TIFF files but the software kept crashing.  In the end I got passible results with only 4 images.  Any more and the software crashed.

 

Would it be better to actually take a movie of the moon rather than taking still images in the hope of stacking them?

 

If taking a movie is the way to go, then what file format should I take to make the movie?

 

I have a Panasonic GH4 and a 100-400mm lens which means that I can get 4k movies of all that lovely cheese.

 

Cheers muchly

 

 

 

Here is my attempt at a single image

 

 

And my stacked image of four shots

 

 

[ronin]

Yes, for the moon treat it like a planet and take a movie of it, (.avi file) then load into Registax and select say the best 100 or 200 frames. Not sure how to reduce the number of alignment points, simply cannot recall.

Once stacked you play with the wavelets and sharpen the final. << Oversimplified.

Be careful that the camera, DSLR, will take compatible movies, not all are recognised.

For RAW and "individual" images you can use Deep Sky Stacker (DSS) (maybe) never tried it for the moon.

For better contrast on the individual ones reduce the ISO a little, that should increase the contrast as a high ISO makes everything brighter.

[Cornelius Varley]

The .mov video file will need to be converted into .avi using PIPP . The .avi can then be processed in Registax or one of the other planetary/lunar stacking programmes.

[the lemming]

12 minutes ago, ronin said:

For better contrast on the individual ones reduce the ISO a little, that should increase the contrast as a high ISO makes everything brighter.

Thanks for the advice about converting a Mov file to an AVI file.  ANd as for the ISO, unfortunately I can't go below 200 however I shall keep trying to improve.

 

Cheers

[Freddie]

I would look at autostakert (AS!2) for stacking and just use Regi for wavelets. DSS can't be used for lunar images.

[the lemming]

What are wavelets please?

[Cornelius Varley]

12 minutes ago, the lemming said:

What are wavelets please?

Wavelets are a processing function of registax which improves the detail in the finished stack. There are a couple of images of the lunar crater Clavius in my gallery which show the before and after wavelets.

[wornish]

Use PIPP (free) to pre-process your images before stacking.  It works with either Raw files or movie files.  It also allows you to select the best files based on quality.

[Stub Mandrel]

Don't despair, even your stack of just 4 images shows the benefits and improvements you get by stacking.

[the lemming]

3 hours ago, Cornelius Varley said:

Wavelets are a processing function of registax which improves the detail in the finished stack. There are a couple of images of the lunar crater Clavius in my gallery which show the before and after wavelets.

Hmmmm.  To be honest, I am not a fan of these wavelets as they seem to introduce strange noise and patterns within the processed image.

I'm no Pixel peeper by any stretch of the imagination but I'm not a fan of over edited images.  I'm getting the impression that you use the wavelet sliders exceptionally conservatively?

 

It's not exactly like using sharpen and noise reduction in Lightroom.

[RichM63]

Howdy, from 1-2, IMHO 1 is over exposed, you should look to under expose such a bright target for any real hope of sensible detail extraction.

2 shows a lot of noise introduced by trying to get detail out of 1 (see grey areas).

As all could state, I am not an expert in this, but I do try to get the best out of what I have. (and learn from the guys)

Try your ISO200, with f10-+ on your tripod, single frame but burst shooting.

Best, Rich

[johnfosteruk]

33 minutes ago, the lemming said:

I am not a fan of these wavelets

Yes you use them conservatively, play with them to see the effect each slider has, you'll know how far you can take it in no time.

Also, +1 for Pipp as it aligns the frames too, but not +1 for video. Even though it's 4K, it's not RAW, and also it's only capturing 8 bit video on the GH4.

My workflow is this

Point at target

Capture frames with trigger, intervalometer, cable release etc

Convert, crop and align with Pipp

Stack with Autostakkert

Wavelets with Registax.

 

3 minutes ago, RichM63 said:

you should look to under expose such a bright target

Which is another reason to shoot RAW, I don't know what the GH4 is like but most sensible cameras today give you a few stops either side with RAW.

Enjoy your cheese.

[the lemming]

9 hours ago, the lemming said:

Hello

 

 

OK, just got in from a good evening of climbing and had a chance to put everybody's good advice into action.

 

I used PiPP to prepare the 40 RAW images I took last night and then used Registax to stack the images together.

 

I must say that I am more than impressed with the lack of excess noise in the form of weird patterns.  However, is it me or is there a sort of shifting/double imaging going on or is that to be expected?

 

On the whole, what do you chaps think of my second attempt at stacking images?

 

 

[bruno]

this may help with the exposures :- http://xjubier.free.fr/en/site_pages/astronomy/MoonExposureCalculator.html

[johnfosteruk]

10 hours ago, the lemming said:

However, is it me or is there a sort of shifting/double imaging going on or is that to be expected?

Yes I think so which means one or more of your frames haven't aligned properly. In registax try reducing the number of frames you stack.

[Freddie]

Or use AS!2 as suggested as it usually produces better results.

[Nova2000]

Dss does stack planatery and moon. Please note. I tried once. 

[Freddie]

DSS aligns the images by detecting stars and using these as the alignment points. You must have had plenty of stars in your images which would be VERY unusual for a planetary image.

[the lemming]

8 hours ago, johnfosteruk said:

Yes I think so which means one or more of your frames haven't aligned properly. In registax try reducing the number of frames you stack.

I had another go with choosing only 100% best images and just 5 stacked images.

 

This is very much a work in progress and I would like to thank everybody for your help and advice.  For my last test image, this time I only chose the 100% best images and limited myself to the best 5 to stack.  I am very happy with the final result.

 

Next time I will know what I need to do to capture the best results.  I will use my len's sweet spot for focal length and do a mixture of RAW files and Mov files at a resolution of 1080p rather than 4k.  I will also ensure that the tripod is fixed rigid so that I don't add any movement into the mix.

 

All in all this has been an interesting learning curve which has demonstrated to me that even 5 images stacked creates a far better final image than just a single image.

 

Cheers all.

 

:-)

 

 

[ronin]

The 100% best images are all the images, so a little puzzled. The idea is that you tell the software to select say the best 50% or whatever 50% of the number of frames is. Then only the decent frames are stacked and the sort of fuzzy blurry ones are discarded. If you stack 100% then you are adding in the not good frames as well, which drags down the final result.

Did you mean the 100 best frames, not 100% ?

Reading over it I guess that you have not generated a movie file for processing in Registax or AS2.

[the lemming]

Well, I'm not one for giving up on my quest for cheese.

About a month ago I took the advice from this discussion and put it to good use. I was also lucky with the aid of a cold weather snap, so I took a mixture of RAW and MOV files. It took a lot of guess work and faffing around but I think I finally hit on the right combination of procedures in the image processing to get two shots of the moon that I am really pleased with. I could have read the manual, but where's the fun in that?

Enough of all that, I would appreciate any advice on how I could improve on my second attempt at hunting for cheese, both blue and grey. :-)



 

 

 

[Stub Mandrel]

Big improvement!

Are you sharpening using Registax wavelets? You should be able to use the de-ringing feature to reduce that 'white edge'.

[the lemming]

57 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

Big improvement!

Are you sharpening using Registax wavelets? You should be able to use the de-ringing feature to reduce that 'white edge'.

Yes, i did use Register and I do find the white edge frustrating.

 

Could you please tell me how I can reduce the white edge?

[Stub Mandrel]

When in wavelets view, select denoise/deringing from the functions at6 right, which will bring up a dialogue box.

Tick the 'de ringing' box, then tick the 'light side' box and move the slider right until the level of bright edge is under control.

This may only work when actually using wavelets, not if you go back afterwards. It reduces the effect of the wavelets.

The other thing is not to be quite so aggressive with wavelets, keep clicking do all to see what effect you have across the image, this will help keep the brightest spots under control.

(Who am I to talk, I'm Mr Over-Process)

[the lemming]

8 hours ago, Stub Mandrel said:

When in wavelets view, select denoise/deringing from the functions at6 right, which will bring up a dialogue box.

Thanks for the advice which I have used to try and improve on my images.  And I have to say that they look more natural and far less pimped up and over pixelated.