Armoured Cable and Power Supply to Scope

[Ouroboros]

That's the conclusion I came to.

[Davey-T]

RCDs are all well and good but they won't save you from a bit of a shock if you stick your finger on the live cable, speaking from personal experience  

Dave

[Ouroboros]

44 minutes ago, Davey-T said:

RCDs are all well and good but they won't save you from a bit of a shock if you stick your finger on the live cable, speaking from personal experience  

Dave

Did it cut out though? 

[Davey-T]

5 minutes ago, Ouroboros said:

Did it cut out though? 

No that's the whole point, didn't trip and I've done it more than once 

Dave

[Stu]

20 minutes ago, Davey-T said:

No that's the whole point, didn't trip and I've done it more than once 

Dave

Well stop doing it then!  

[Ouroboros]

1 hour ago, Davey-T said:

No that's the whole point, didn't trip and I've done it more than once 

Dave

Ahh.  I suppose RCDs need a certain current to flow before cutting out. Maybe you're too big a resistance.

[StarryEyed]

I worked on substations that were hot with 50KV.  rubber boots rubber gloves and rubber hammers.

[Davey-T]

59 minutes ago, Ouroboros said:

Ahh.  I suppose RCDs need a certain current to flow before cutting out. Maybe you're too big a resistance.

I'll try and keep hold of it next time to see if it will trip the breaker 

Dave

[RayD]

I would speak to whatever electrician you would use first before clipping your armoured to a fence. They are very divided on this and whilst some will certify it, the majority won't as a fence isn't classed as permanent so you're actually not supposed to clip to it according to BS7671 (17th Edition). 

I wish I had £1 for every electric shock I've had.  Once had 185VDC @ 10A and ended up with some pretty bad burns and holes (1 small entry and a couple of very large exits) and 5 days in hospital, so it's not something you want to take any chances with.

I certainly don't want to scare monger as the likelihood is nothing will happen, as has been the case with your extension lead, and the thought of Dave getting a shock and not tripping the RCD is actually pretty funny, but with the damp and rain outside it is possible that second chances are not an option.

[astronymonkey]

Id weigh up the difference in the time and effort needed t unreel the extention lead each night versus the effort needed in having to hire a trencher and pneumatic beaker to dig the trench etc. For me id take the easy option, but i understand the desire for a permament setup.

Looking forward to hearing the outcome though.

Cheers

[RayD]

These are quite good for outside use, and could be fixed on or near the mount, then just reel out and plug in when needed:

IP Rated Garden Extension Lead

[Charic]

On 1/4/2017 at 18:43, iapa said:

I seem to tremor that changes in the past 5 years or so to regulations mean that you now need a qualified electrical engineer to install external power sockets

Is it not the case, that if your competent, you can do the installation yourself, but NOT  make the actual  electrical connection?
That requires a qualified electrician,  supported with a certificate of installation, if it extends  the properties original wiring?

I had the same concerns for providing electricity to a workshop and providing underground lines to my  water feature?
All my  local  neighbours   had garden electrics installed before me, provided by a neighbouring certified electrician. 
I/we  don't have a certificates  though ( I`ll  chase/check that issue this weekend) .

All my power outlets outside, run from a  RCD consumer unit. The main cable  (armoured) is connected to a spur switch in the kitchen, which isolates the washer,  also connected to the house consumer unit. It looks safe, I`m told its safe, I feel safe, never popped a circuit yet!
But I will need a certificate if I were to sell the house on.

[Charic]

On 1/4/2017 at 19:13, ngwillym said:

So just using an extension lead (i.e. something that is not a permanent fixture) - i.e. with a plug to plug into the outdoor socket and a socket at the other end to attach an 'appliance' (i.e. scope) shouldn't require certification

That's the simple option.............cant get any easier!
All my mobile extensions are fitted with RCD adaptors, and they work ? 

[Physopto]

Why persist with 240 volt ac outside in a garden. Be safe run a very heavy 12 volt dc power cable out to the mount from a dry safe place with your power supply fitted. Use 6mm^2 cable to reduce voltage drop under load. No chance of electrocution !

Derek

 

[Charic]

3 hours ago, Davey-T said:

I'll try and keep hold of it next time to see if it will trip the breaker 

That's made me chuckle , but I can just imagine it, but we know you won't    - DON'T -   will you?
 

[RayD]

13 minutes ago, Charic said:

Is it not the case, that if your competent, you can do the installation yourself, but NOT  make the actual  electrical connection?
That requires a qualified electrician,  supported with a certificate of installation, if it extends  the properties original wiring?

I had the same concerns for providing electricity to a workshop and providing underground lines to my  water feature?
All my  local  neighbours   had garden electrics installed before me, provided by a neighbouring certified electrician. 
I/we  don't have a certificates  though ( I`ll  chase/check that issue this weekend) .

All my power outlets outside, run from a  RCD consumer unit. The main cable  (armoured) is connected to a spur switch in the kitchen, which isolates the washer,  also connected to the house consumer unit. It looks safe, I`m told its safe, I feel safe, never popped a circuit yet!
But I will need a certificate if I were to sell the house on.

Technically yes, but it's about proving competence.  Problem is, particularly if it's a buried cable, no electrician is going to sign off as compliant something he can't see.

As a start I would say make sure that anything you install outside is on a double pole breaker and not just a spur.  You can nick it off a ring, but you can't spur off a spur, that's not permitted.  If your washer is on a radial that's fine.

It's a bit of a minefield, and as you say you can't be arrested for it, but you can't sell your house without the certification.

[noah4x4]

As somebody that once managed to plumb a dishwasher into a gas pipe (e.g. rather than water pipe) using a self cutting tap I reckon regulations that demand qualified contractors are very wise. I have just had external lights and sockets installed at the bottom of my garden (possible location of an observatory, but merely decking and gazebo at present). I did the preparation (trench digging) to the sparky's specification. To meet the regulations, the armoured cable under my lawn had to be buried about two spades depth and at one spades depth covered by a plastic tape labelled "danger - buried cable". It needed changes to my consumer unit RCDs too. 

[RayD]

1 minute ago, noah4x4 said:

As somebody that once managed to plumb a dishwasher into a gas pipe (e.g. rather than water pipe) using a self cutting tap I reckon regulations that demand qualified contractors are very wise. I have just had external lights and sockets installed at the bottom of my garden (possible location of an observatory, but merely decking and gazebo at present). I did the preparation (trench digging) to the sparky's specification. To meet the regulations, the armoured cable under my lawn had to be buried about two spades depth and at one spades depth covered by a plastic tape labelled "danger - buried cable". It needed changes to my consumer unit RCDs too. 

Yes you'll probably find he put double pole RCD's in, and possibly lowered the trip rating for an outside circuit.

Always best to get it done professionally as it may not be you grabbing hold of it.

[noah4x4]

11 minutes ago, RayD said:

 

It's a bit of a minefield, and as you say you can't be arrested for it, but you can't sell your house without the certification.

This is true of most things. I am in the process of selling a property that has had double glazing installed - but my dear old Mum didn't use a certified contractor, hence we don't have an energy certificate or warranty.  We hence must now buy insurance indemnities and seek independent certification.  Moral is, don't use cowboys.

[RayD]

Just now, noah4x4 said:

This is true of most things. I am in the process of selling a property that has had double glazing installed - but my dear old Mum didn't use a certified contractor, hence we don't have an energy certificate or warranty.  We hence must now buy insurance indemnities and seek independent certification.  Moral is, don't use cowboys.

Yes you have to have a FENSA certificate for doors and windows, otherwise it's a big problem.

[Davey-T]

When I first moved into this house many years ago it had 2 X 30 amp ceramic fuses in a metal box with a switch on the side and when the switch was off there was still one socket that worked 

Before we moved in my wife plugged the hoover in and it nearly blew the socket of the wall, looked like a spiders web of bare cables inside it.

So the first thing I did was rewire it, I was sparking at the time what edition can't remember, it has been added to and improved over the years but nothing part Pd not that I'm planning on moving so not bothered.

Dave

1 minute ago, RayD said:

Yes you have to have a FENSA certificate for doors and windows, otherwise it's a big problem.

My brother lives in grade 2 listed house and isn't allowed to change the single glazed wooden windows or take the roof off to insulate it LOL.

Dave

[RayD]

1 minute ago, Davey-T said:

When I first moved into this house many years ago it had 2 X 30 amp ceramic fuses in a metal box with a switch on the side and when the switch was off there was still one socket that worked 

Lol let's hope that was fed from next door 

Ironically the latest amended 17th edition has now gone back to metal clad consumer units.  You can't fit plastic any more in domestic.  Talk about full circle!

[RayD]

4 minutes ago, Davey-T said:

My brother lives in grade 2 listed house and isn't allowed to change the single glazed wooden windows or take the roof off to insulate it LOL.

 

Makes a mockery of the FENSA thing really as you can't sell your house without the FENSA certificate, but you're not allowed to fit double glazing!!

Building regs gone mad!

[Charic]

11 minutes ago, RayD said:

not just a spur.  You can nick it off a ring, but you can't spur off a spur, that's not permitted.

Cheers RayD..............Spur........ just my terminology !

My washing machine with its 13 Amp fitted  plug  is connected to  a  wall socket  beneath the work surface, where the washing machine  sits with its associated water and waste pipes . Above the work surface there is a wall mounted fused wall switch which isolates the lower socket, and  switch itself,  is in turn, connected   to the  "sockets - ground floor"  system ( just checked the consumer unit) and if  were to test the RCD  the whole of my ground floor system should shut down, but Mrs charic is recording at present!!

My armoured cable is hard wired to the washing machines  lower socket, which now seems like a spur from the isolator switch? The Armoured cable  passes through the wall, exits above the DPM and buried for about 20 feet  entering the workshop into the consumer unit, From there I have two RCDs, Lights and RING.

[Davey-T]

1 minute ago, RayD said:

Lol let's hope that was fed from next door 

Ironically the latest amended 17th edition has now gone back to metal clad consumer units.  You can't fit plastic any more in domestic.  Talk about full circle!

Tell me about it they seem to change the reg's with the weather, someone sitting in an office somewhere trying to justify their existence, earthing reg's used to drive me bonkers 

Dave