Which DSLR ?

[hipster]

I've decided to make a concerted effort into DSO imaging but getting nowhere in deciding what hardware I want to buy.

I have a SkyWatcher 200PDS mounted on a Synguided EQ5

I've sorted a guiding system, now for an imaging camera - but Ive no idea what I want or need.

Starting at rock bottom prices, more money means better quality. Up to a point. There comes a point where more money means more features but I think a lot will be totally unnecessary in astro-imaging ?

I have used Nikon for 40 years but I think I'm going now for Canon - leave the Nikons alone for 'ordinary' photography. Canon appear more supported in the Astro world (?)

So, my question is (are)

Which Canon DSLR comes most recommended

and 

Is it worth buying second hand (pre- or post-modified) or is it better to spend a bit more and buy new ?

 

Any comments are most welcome, thanks

[Adam J]

It being modified is generally more important than it being new. After that it depends on your budget. But a good place to start for your first seconds hand modified camera is the 1000D, the 450D, the 1100D or the 600D, depending on what you want to spend...just make sure you either buy it modified or get it modified.

[Charic]

55 minutes ago, hipster said:

I have used Nikon for 40 years but I think I'm going now for Canon - leave the Nikons alone for 'ordinary' photography. Canon appear more supported in the Astro world (?)

I think folk prefer the Cannon sensors!
I have a D5000 but no tracking or guiding system on my scope.
Nikon has some info here, should you wish to continue with their brand. http://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/microsite/astrophotography/getstarted/camera/index.html

Their D810A is dedicated for astrophotography though not cheap.

[Leveye]

If funds afford I'd get a 6D or the new 6Dmkii when it comes out soon. If that's too much I'd get a 700D/T5i body and have it modded by a professional. I saved quite a bit of money doing this but you can just buy a new modded camera ready to go from some of these places. Just get it from a reputable dealer.

[Stu1976j]

Hi hipster, I can't give you much advice as still learning a lot myself. but I have been using a second hand Canon EOS500D for the last two years now, which has not been modded yet and has served me proud. I have managed some good shots of M42 - Andromeda - Milky way - moon - Jupiter ect mostly unguided so far and soon to be guided. I am going to get her astro modified soon. but wanted to learn what the camera could do first before plowing more money into it. what I am trying to say is you don't need to go out and spend a fortune to start with. I have invested in a battery grip so the camera lasts a lot longer and remote shutter control box for a little extra control from the computer. and a external power supply for when I get it set up in my obsy. 

[SteveNickolls]

Hi, I can vouch for the older Canon 600D which has a handy variable angle Live View screen which adds to its ease of use at the odd positions your telescope ends up pointing at. The 700D additionally has a touch screen capability that is helpful at night and one of the colour themes is red to use as a night view. The 750D and more modern ones additionally have bluetooth connectivity for camera control. Can't help wrt modified camera's though.

Best Regards,
Steve

[ollypenrice]

Off topic in a sense, but time and technology move on. Are you aware of the ZWO cameras? https://www.firstlightoptics.com/zwo-cameras.html Those at the very bottom right of the page are the ones which might give you pause. These low read noise CMOS cameras are making even CCD imagers sit up and take notice. They should easily outclass DSLRs in anything but the fastest of optics. Since you already have a daytime camera the main reason for sticking with DSLR doesn't apply.

There is a long thread on the favourite model here: 

I certainly wouldn't buy a DSLR till I'd read through this.

Olly

[iapa]

I have a modded 600D - bought second hand from Buy and Sell for around £220

Also use a 700D unmodded. 

Did use a 70D for a while, but decided, for the tie being I'k keep that for my non-astro stuff (unless I think I need the improves sensitivity or higher pixel count for anything - not what for but, then ago in astro imaging who knows).

Apart from things like increased autofocus points, a higher maximum ISO (which you'd not use anyway as we all image at ISO800  LOL) and a couple of other day time imaging functions there is not really much different between a 600D and 700D.

The articulated screen on these is a god send as it makes framing a bit easier for alignment - after that not really needed though; plate solving with AstroTortilla keeps things right after alignment.

TBH I was going to say that the touch screen is not really important, but as I started to write that I change my mind - but not really sure why

 

 

[cjdawson]

I've got a few thoughts on this.

As @ollypenrice already posted.  You might be better looking for a dedicated astro camera.  Rather than making do with a DSLR.  Rather than buying a DSLR, one of the ZWO's would mean that more of the money is going into the sensor rather than all the sundry items - like battery, memory card, lcd screen, etc.   The ZWO's are sensor, a bit of electronics to convert image to USB, then transmit to Laptop/desktop.   In addition those cameras are already setup for Astro imaging, so there's no need to get them modded.

 

It used to be true that Nikon were not good for Astro, and yes, canon do support astronomy better. Apparently someone high up in the company has connections in astrophotography (I think they're an Astro imager for hobbie).  So once in a while they bring out a model for Astronomy.  20Da, 40Da and 60Da are all specific versions that are setup for astrophotography and do not need modding, they also contain features that were later included in the other versions of the camera.  Live view was first seen in the 20Da, but didn't make it mainstream until the 40D came out.    The Nikon cameras have been getting better in this regard, and it's got to the stage now where the newer Nikons are good almost as good as the Canons.  It might even be down to personal preference now.

Rather than spend a fortune on a Canon camera just for imaging, have you tried using your unmodded Nikon?   If not, check out BackyardNikon. ;-)

[Knight of Clear Skies]

Since you already have a DSLR my suggestion would be to have a go with it first, an adaptor to attach it to your telescope will only cost a few quid. A modded camera will gather much more signal on emission nebulae but doesn't offer any advantages on broadband targets such as galaxies and reflection nebulae. I'd recommend making a start on some brighter targets such as clusters and M42 (it's bright enough to image with an unmodded camera). Depending on how you get on you may not be able to get that much use out of a modded camera this Winter. Imaging can be a bit of a learning curve and we will start to move into galaxy season in a couple months.

One word of caution, imaging with a 200 PDS on an EQ5 could be challenging. Here is a thread about the recommended EQ5 payload capacity, experiences with it are a bit mixed. However, if you have any suitable lenses for your camera that would make for a less steep learning curve, everything is more forgiving at short focal lengths.

Hope that's some help.

 

[happy-kat]

^ though depending on which Nikon dslr it is it might be a star eater which might influence whether you try using it now.

[iapa]

1 hour ago, cjdawson said:

 

It used to be true that Nikon were not good for Astro, and yes, canon do support astronomy better. Apparently someone high up in the company has connections in astrophotography (I think they're an Astro imager for hobbie).  So once in a while they bring out a model for Astronomy.  20Da, 40Da and 60Da are all specific versions that are setup for astrophotography and do not need modding, they also contain features that were later included in the other versions of the camera.  Live view was first seen in the 20Da, but didn't make it mainstream until the 40D came out.    The Nikon cameras have been getting better in this regard, and it's got to the stage now where the newer Nikons are good almost as good as the Canons.  It might even be down to personal preference now.

Rather than spend a fortune on a Canon camera just for imaging, have you tried using your unmodded Nikon?   If not, check out BackyardNikon. ;-)

 

Nikon do a D810a (I think it is) at a significant cost.

[GTom]

If you stay with the Sky Newton, one thing is sure: going FF is a complete waste of money, you are spending hundreds of ₤/€/$ on sensor area, which never see a photon from the sky. Only a few, AP-oriented (large secondary + 3" focuser) Newtons can light up a FF sensor.

I'd probably get a QHY163m or ASI1600mm-cool for your scope.

OTOH, if you also plan a scope upgrade - which is quite an undertaking, not just financially - there is room for e.g. a 6D. I recently bought and converted a 6D after doing rounds of research: it wasn't an easy decision, because I was also a die-hard Nikonian and never had canon gear before, but I don't want star-eating, or any other nasty surprises popping up after the purchase - like it does in case of the a7s "miracle" (they don't exist, right?) sensor.

With Nikons, tight bayonet/mirrorbox is an issue, they will vignette more even after mirrorectomy, the sony doesn't have a mirror but its bayonet is even tighter.

[SonnyE]

When faced with this part of my kit, I spent time on WHAT I wanted to image. So I abandoned the DSLR route, and trying to make do, and modifying a camera, and went straight to a Deep Space Camera with cooling.

I do still have my DSLR, and a simple T-mount allows me to mount it up for wide field photography. But my DSO camera is the one to reach out there with.

In fact, it was so tight, I got a 0.5x Focal Reducer just for that camera. And I've been happy with that. It gives it a factor of 4 times wider FOV. Which was what helped me to get more of my object.

So consider if you have a preference as to what you'd like to image. And you can get a space camera meant for where you would like to go.

[Squiddy]

Read this article regarding the needs for DSLR  astro modifications:

http://www.astropix.com/HTML/I_ASTROP/DSLR_HA.HTM

And here you can compare the internal filter Ha transmission characteristics of different cameras:

https://kolarivision.com/articles/internal-cut-filter-transmission/

My choice here is a second hand 1000D around £100 and I've already ordered a shutter controller:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Shoot-RS-60E3-Selfie-Timer-Remote-Control-Shutter-Release-Cable-TC-C1-for-Canon-EOS-60D/32507867612.html?spm=2114.13010608.0.0.h77go7

I just have to find a seller though...

[LukeSkywatcher]

A LOT of thought went into which DSLR i wanted, when i was buying. I have shovel hands and picked up a 450D and a 1000D (not both at the same time). The 450D just felt right for me. 

[happy-kat]

@ squiddy If you read up on here about Clarkvision or on StarTools forum you'll see that that site has been debunked. Best read with a bucket load of salt.

[Squiddy]

2 hours ago, happy-kat said:

@ squiddy If you read up on here about Clarkvision or on StarTools forum you'll see that that site has been debunked. Best read with a bucket load of salt.

I realize now that I havn't read that text very carefully. I saw the recommendation about the unmodded 7D MII a couple of weeks ago and now when the question came up I  thought it was a good idee to share it. Now I just had read the whole article, and also the warning on StarTools forum, just to realize how rubbish it sounds. Forgive me, I will not recommend anything I havn't read carefully again.

[adair12]

Looking at the  Nikon D type of cameras. I've had the Nikon d5300 http://thedigitalcamera.net/nikon-d5300-vs-d5500-whats-the-difference/

[Garethr]

Hipster,

+1 for the ZWO

Having a similar set up myself a while back I found that even with my EQ5 mounted on a pier, the SW200p with a DSLR hanging off the end I think pushes the mount beyond it's Limits.  Yes you can get great images but end up discarding a lot of subs due to trailing and such like.  This is a tough enough hobby without adding extra issues.  I think the ZWO option mentioned by other members will help greatly in reducing the payload the mount has to deal with.

Canon EOS 1100D is .5 of a Kilo a ZWO is about .1 of a Kilo.  

Added bonus the ZWO can be used for planetary and Lunar work as well

 

Good luck 

Gareth 

[Adam J]

It depends on your budget you can literally get 8 x modified 450D cameras for the cost of one ZWO ASI1600MM Cool so for me its not even close to being a DSLR replacement, even the cheaper smaller 'budget' cooled sensors are about 4 x the cost. Is the extra performance worth the extra cost....yes (but probably not better by a factor of 8) but that wont help you if you have only a 200 pound budget. Essentially only the budget second hand modified DSLR cameras make sense, if your willing to pay for a 6D you had better really like daylight photography too or you are better off with a dedicated camera in the same price range.