Important Novice Questions

[aviles622]

So I am very new to gazing the night skies and I have a very important question about equipment / lenses for what I'm trying to do.

PLEASE keep in my that I have tremendous respect for the entire universe (whatever and however I may see it, it's just amazing) but my preference in my new hobby is just to view the Planets & our Moon.

I'll start off by first saying that I bought the Celestron 8se Goto Scope (8") from Amazon along with 8mm to 24mm Baader Planetarium zoom lense, 2.5x & 3x Barlow lenses and a new Telrad finder scope. I spent over $1,800 and tried for the past week in the evening under clear night skies viewing Venus & Mars. Then at about 4:00am to 6:00am in the morning viewing Jupiter. In all cases for the past week and a half Mars, Venus & Jupiter were clearly seen and they were correctly centered and focused in my eyepiece.

I had no success in seeing any features on either planet with using 6mm up to 24mm lenses (with and without the Barlows). I did see Jupiter focused and managed to see three moons. However, very in focus but still just no features! Obviously, the Moon was seen with great features in every case. (Simply incredible for the first time!)

So of course I hit the Google button and searched this forum for hours! I ended up sending everything back to Amazon for a refund. I know by this point you must think I'm very impatient but 95% of my search results stated that I do not need an 8" scope or this type of scope just for viewing the Solar System if I'm not really interested in viewing Deep Space objects (which is my current preference). And I pretty much don't need the Goto features of the 8se (which is very difficult to allign anyhow) as I can easily identify any planet and of course, the Moon in the night skies.

For the money I spent, I was really hoping to see alot more than just focused colored circles. However, it was very cool just knowing I was viewing these planets for the very first time but not worth the $1,800.

Finally, the reason for this post is to ask the more experienced Astronomers to recommend the best sensible telescope / lenses to purchase for just viewing Planets.

Thank you in advance for any help and taking your time to read this as I'm very anxious to purchase something new this week. (I got back my $1,800 but I'm not looking to spend it all, lol)

Please, give me your best recommendations! 

 

 

[Owmuchonomy]

Hi there. The kit that you purchased and returned is more than adequate for Lunar and Planetary viewing.  The problem lies in our expectations of the views we can achieve particularly in light of the images presented in the media. The planets you mention are all low in our skies right now although a bit higher than the UK where you are. Unfortunately, this means our atmosphere destroys the best views and this will not change for a few years for the classical planetary targets.

in addition, Venus has no features to see due to its highly reflective dense atmosphere, Mars is very small right now and Jupiter is a bit low to be startling. Jupiter improves a bit towards the Spring. So, I wouldn't recommend a different choice of kit to be honest. I don't think that would meet your expectation. Sorry.

[Timebandit]

 

Hello and welcome to SGL. It sounds if you do not want an over completed scope and set up but something that is visually simple and effective. So I will recommend what I personally own . That is a skywatcher refractor and it's a equinox 120ed apo. And I have it on a simple easy to use AZ4 mount (up down, and side to side to locate planets and DS) . This set up is a very effective and crisp sharp views of planetary and lunar and if you want to do some DSO at a later date will do the M series. To get it in your budget you may net to get a second hand equinox, or go for the standard skywatcher 120ed( the focuser I understand is not quite as good as the equinox) but still optically very good.

Also to get the best out of any scope for image viewed then a dark site will help significantly .

I hope you like the above suggestions and it heslp☺ 

[brantuk]

Hmmm.... interesting. I'm not sure of the level of detail you're after - if you want "moon like" features when viewing Jupiter then I think you're going to be disappointed. It's surrounded in gas clouds like Venus. The moon is only a quarter million miles away whereas Jupiter is 365 million miles - considerable difference. For viewing solar system objects an 8" Sct with it's narrow fov and long focal length is ideal. In honesty, I'm not sure if astronomy is the right hobby for your good self - sounds like it's not going to meet your expectations - but it's great you at least had a go to find out.

[Peter Drew]

I'm very surprised that your 8se was disappointing. I've had one for a few years and it has given me fantastic planetary and lunar views. All this can easily be spoiled if the telescope is not collimated well enough, the telescope has not had time to reach thermal equilibrium, the conditions are not suitable or the planets are too low and last but not least and with all due respect, the experience of the user. A Barlow lens of any magnifying power is of little use with a 8se as its native focal length of 2000mm will provide more than enough magnification with a zoom eyepiece on its own. Based on my experience with this telescope it is one that I would have recommended for your stated interest, a refractor might suit you better but one that could match the capabilities of a 8se with all the mentioned circumstances in its favour is going to be pretty expensive. 

[Putaendo Patrick]

You're never going to get enormous, detailed views of the planets - beyond a certain magnification, the limitations of the telescope combined with the limitations of atmospheric conditions, mean that trying to go any larger is just pointless. The planets also need to be high in the sky for best viewing. With very good conditions and telescope, that limit is about x250 maximum and often less - and what you see will be about the size of a pea. Close-up photos you may have seen are taken by space probes or telescopes in satellites above the Earth's atmosphere.

The quality of optics or mirrors, eyepieces and the size of aperture will all certainly influence the quality of what you see - and a longer focal length telescope is generally better. The Celestron 8SE is very good in this respect, but many considerably less expensive telescopes may achieve what you're looking for. The major planets are generally quite easy to locate, so go-to (an expensive part of the telescope set up) is not really necessary.

Refractor telescopes work well for planetary observation. These come in all sizes and prices with a big cost difference between so-called achromatic and apochromatic versions. Apochromatic lenses are made with a "sandwich" of three elements of different high-quality glass and are superb but expensive. Achromatic lenses have a simpler "sandwich" of two layers of glass and are much cheaper. In the middle there are semi-apochromatic refractors which use ED glass. One of the main differences between Achro and Apo is a visual effect in the former known as chromatic aberration or fringing - cheaper telescopes will show a colour fringe around brighter objects. Some filters can reduce this, or like me you can learn to live with it. And as you get older, the effect is less noticeable.

This is my achro telescope: http://agenaastro.com/celestron-omni-xlt-120-telescope.html  Telescopes with similar specifications are made by most of the major manufacturers - Meade, Bresser, Skywatcher etc.

There are many better alternatives certainly, but most are much more expensive. The mount is a manual Equatorial which is solid enough for visual observation. It should be aligned to the Pole Star and will then enable you to adjust the knob to follow objects as they "move" across the sky. You'll need a couple of good eyepieces. These orthoscopics are excellent (although they have limited eye relief): http://agenaastro.com/eyepieces/1-25-eyepieces/shopby/kasai_trading_co-kokusai_kohki.html  perhaps in 7mm and 5mm which will give magnifications of about x140 and x200.

[John]

The 8SE is a great scope for observing the planets and the Moon. It's worth bearing in mind the actual apparent size of the planets in the sky when considering the type of view you will get, even at high magnifications and with a good scope. Also bear in mind that good viewing conditions, a fully cooled and well collimated scope, decent quality eyepieces and an experienced eye are required to tease details from these distant worlds. Initial views may well be dissapointing but perserverance will deliver rewards.

This illustrates the planets (with the Moon for scale) comparative apparent sizes at their largest :

 

[Owmuchonomy]

Super graphic John. ?

[rockystar]

Yeah, good graphic John, especially to show the size - to the OP though, bear in mind that this is still quite a high quality image and your view (especially as all the planets are pretty low at the moment) probably won't be as high quality. The 8SE is a great scope though (I've looked through a 6SE and it was fantastic), so a bit of patients should yield rewards. If you do want to start again though, a good recommendation above of a 120 refractor on an AZ4.

[ronin]

My opinion and it may have been said, just too lazy to read all the previous:

Venus. Mars, Jupiter, Saturn are at this time all too low to get a great deal from them.

Venus is cloud covered and will show a cresent. So all you see it the top of a load of fairly acidic clouds. Mars is "interesting" but generally difficult to get anything from and it needs to be higher, So on those two you are likely to find yourself on the losing side of the arguement.

Jupiter should be fairly good if/when it is higher, use about 80x to 100x, there is no reason to go to extreme magnifications as you gain a bit of size but lose clarity and definition. Saturn again is low, too low likely, and for that you need something around 120-150x magnificaton. To see the rings and the Cassini division you need again clarity and sharpness. So again too much magnification loses this and you get a disappointing view.

I use refractors, my preference, but I have not had a good view through any of the SCT's I have put my eye to. No idea if it was bad luck or normal or anything else.

For the moon a terrible way of putting it is a 60mm Walmart scope will give a decent view. The moon is easy.

Sensible alternatives, that is the difficult one, how about an iOptron CEM25 and a Bresser or ES refractor ? Eyepieces pick up 3 Astro-Tech Paradigms. The ES 127L seems to gets a lot of users and no complaints. Bresser have a new selection of LONG refractors coming out. But that means a wait.

For a higher "quality" scope look at the ES ED range, means a smaller scope however, but I still think it worth considering.

Problem in your request is that to my thinking there is the moon, Jupiter and Saturn. Venus is a fuzzy blob always and Mars is a small red disk. Actually I prefer looking at Antares. How many times do you want to look at the moon, Jupiter and Saturn. I find 2 or 3 times a year on the 2 planets and only ever look at the whole moon about the same. Searching out a crater just doen't do it for me.

[aviles622]

6 hours ago, brantuk said:

I'm not sure if astronomy is the right hobby for your good self - sounds like it's not going to meet your expectations - but it's great you at least had a go to find out. 

I appreciate every answer from this post... (except for that stupid one!)

No! I didn't expect to see craters on Planets like I see on the moon! And no I didn't believe that I could see astronauts floating around on the moon from my telescope in my backyard either! (@ Super Giant) I did graduate the 4th grade!

As I wrote in my original post, I appreciate everything I am able to see in the night sky, and I love this new hobby. I spent about a month Googling, reading this forum and read many other online resources. As you guys mentioned, I did get the wrong idea by seeing some great large images of the planets in great detail, especially the ones I viewed that were supposedly taken with the Celestron 8se.

I really thought as a complete newbie it would be impossible to locate where the planets would be without the Goto capabilities of the 8se. After a couple days I really couldn't successfully align the 8se Goto feature anyhow. So I used the software "Starry Night from Celestron" to find the visible Planets from my backyard. In no time I was able to locate these visible Planets without the need for the Goto feature which was the reason why I returned it.

I can spend half the money (or less) on a telescope with the same viewing capability without the Goto feature.

I can't wait to find my next telescope and get back into my backyard!

Thanks to all...

 

Anymore none Goto telescope suggestions would be appreciated!

 

[happy-kat]

28 minutes ago, aviles622 said:

As you guys mentioned, I did get the wrong idea by seeing some great large images of the planets in great detail, especially the ones I viewed that were supposedly taken with the Celestron 8se.

Images taken through a telescope can see so much more than our eyeball, many plantery images are created from a video image taken through a telescope and then hundreds of frames stacked together, this reveals what the eye does not see. Same with deep space photos, often many long exposure length images stacked, again no hope of our eye seeing this detail naturally. The 8SE could well have been used to take the images of the planets you saw.

Best of luck with what ever you choose next, but for deep space objects even if the telescope is enormous you wont see the amazing colours that you see in photos. You might like to read this thread.

link here, what can I expect to see

[Paul M]

First off, don't worry you are not alone!

It takes time to see, you see.

As some have said, unmet expectation can dull a new starters enthusiasm. Perseverance is the way forward, presuming there wasn't any optical issue with you SCT.

There are various atmospheric conditions that can spoil the telescopic image of even the larger planets but I think the biggest issue is observing skill. I think in the day before the internet,,, digital astrophotography and affordable telescopes we learned at a slower pace and expected less.

For me it can take up much of an observing session just getting a focus I'm happy with. That's before I start looking for detail. When I do start looking, the detail can be very subtle and fleeting. Now you see it, now you don't. Maybe some nights you see it some you don't. Being either/and/or; cold, frustrated, tired or disappointed can shape your perceptions at the eyepiece. Give it time. Get comfortable. Relax and give you eyes time to see.

It may be that your visual observations never live up to your expectations. I had a longish hiatus in stargazing as life took over my life. During that hiatus astrophotography (and telescopes) underwent a revolution. Reading SGL is what got me wanting to start-up again. What struck me was the quality of the imaging these guys were now doing! It's difficult to reconcile those images with that seen visually through an eyepiece.

 

 

  

[Putaendo Patrick]

I would certainly recommend attending a viewing session of a local astronomical club. You will have the opportunity of seeing a number of different telescopes in action and of discussing their advantages, costs etc with their members. There's a list for New Jersey here: http://www.go-astronomy.com/astro-clubs-state.php?State=NJ

As you live in Bayville, I think your nearest might be ASTRA for the Toms River Area: http://astra-nj.org/

This society (together with many others) has several telescopes which they can lend to their members http://astra-nj.org/ASTRA Telescopes.html  and which may give you a useful chance to try before you buy. For example, they have two refractors similar to mine - borrow one for a month and see if it meets your expectations. They also have a couple of Dobsonian reflectors which are a very good value-for-money design for all-round visual observation.

Once you know what you want to buy, you might also consider second-hand. Most amateur astronomers take great care of their equipment, and there are some very attractive offers. There's a specialist Internet site for second-hand gear in the USA http://www.astromart.com/classifieds/  To get the seller's information, you have to sign up and I think there's a small charge, but it might be worth it.

[Stu]

An 8" SCT when properly cooled and collimated is certainly capable of giving very nice planetary views, but I suspect you may get better satisfaction from a decent 100 or 120mm frac. The suggestion of a 120ED is a good one. Although you will see more ultimate detail in the SCT, the view in a frac tends to be more stable and are somehow easier to view as you don't have to wait so long for sharp views between periods of unstable seeing.

Mars is very small at the moment, wait until opposition to see better detail. For me, I tend to use x180 to x200 or so for Jupiter, x220 ish for Saturn and anything up to x250 for Mars to get the image scale. Using only x80 will show you a nice crisp disk but won't allow you to tease out the smaller detail. You do need good seeing conditions to get decent planetary detail and it is quite possible that your attempts to observe coincided with a period of very poor seeing, hence the blank discs.

As an example for you, this is an iPhone shot taken through the eyepiece of Jupiter. It is nothing like as good as the image I saw visually which was beautifully crisp and detailed but you can see the equatorial bands as well as the shadow caused by one of the Galilean moons. This was taken using a Takahashi FC-100, an expensive refractor but a 120ED would give similar results.