Polar Alignment with no view of Polaris (or much else for that matter!)

[Skipper Billy]

If its Network Rail land and you don't want to trim the trees for fear of the branches landing on the train track then it might be worth discussing with Network Rails Health and Safety Executive.

If a good blow could put a tree across the track then they will probably be quite keen to remedy the situation and they might be very appreciative of the tip off which would be great result for you!

Up here (NW Scotland) they survey the rail tracks and power lines by helicopter and a few days later all you can hear is chainsaws for about a week as the remove anything within about 100 metres of tracks or power lines/pylons.

 

 

[johnrt]

21 minutes ago, Skipper Billy said:

If its Network Rail land and you don't want to trim the trees for fear of the branches landing on the train track then it might be worth discussing with Network Rails Health and Safety Executive.

If a good blow could put a tree across the track then they will probably be quite keen to remedy the situation and they might be very appreciative of the tip off which would be great result for you!

Up here (NW Scotland) they survey the rail tracks and power lines by helicopter and a few days later all you can hear is chainsaws for about a week as the remove anything within about 100 metres of tracks or power lines/pylons.

 

 

Here is the last response I received from them in July when I raised the matter of the tress with them;

Dear Mr John Taylor

Thank you for contacting Network Rail.

Whilst your concerns are understandable, the felling or pruning of trees can prove to be a highly sensitive matter and as such, decisions to fell or prune trees are not taken lightly.

Network Rail adopts the general principle that trees will not be felled or pruned unless this is required to alleviate problems relating to safety or structural damage.

Furthermore we do not cut back or prune trees in response to issues relating to day light or to improve satellite or TV reception.

You are however within your rights to cut back any vegetation overgrowing into your property and deposit it within our boundary providing you do not enter onto railway land to do this.

I am sorry that I cannot be of further assistance on this occasion. However, should you need to contact Network Rail again in the future, please do not hesitate to call our 24-hour Helpline on 03457 11 41 41.

Yours sincerely,

Contact and Communities Team
Network Rail

 

I suppose talking about the safety of the railway line & my property may get this taken more seriously.

[Vox45]

1 hour ago, johnrt said:

Sound's like there are some options to try out there, Sharpcap and drift align at even quite a high altitude to the south.

In terms of the trees themselves, I'm hoping a conversation with Rail Track might get me somewhere, as they are not a standard neighbour and have no personal attachment to the trees and neither like / dislike or care about them it will boil down to cost for them as a company. By offering to pay the cost of the tree surgeons I might be able to get some work done on them, even if it's just to cut back the areas around Polaris.

Yes, something like that

[johnrt]

6 minutes ago, Vox45 said:

Yes, something like that

That would be perfect.

[Skipper Billy]

OK

Plan B

Half a dozen large copper nails whacked into the trunk will solve your problem in about 12 months time - untraceable, effective, but slow!!

Plan C

Get your neighbors to write explaining that they are fearful of the tree branches over the line swaying alarmingly in the breeze - once they are informed they will be fearful in case anything happens (they can't say they didn't know)  - I would stress its a safety concern and not mention astronomy or any other self interests

Plan D

 

 

 

 

[johnrt]

I have appealed the original decision quoted above to not reduce the height of the trees to my local Assets Management team based on the risk to safety for both the railway and my property. Admittedly not an immediate or dangerous risk, but a risk nonetheless. If I get nowhere, at least I have some documented evidence for my insurance company if the worst was to ever happen with these trees.

Network Rail have a formal appeals procedure I can follow if I do not agree with the outcome of their decision, so I will follow that and see where it leads.

In the meantime there are clear skies tonight and I think I have a little wait for my chosen galaxy to clear these monsters, so I will have an experiment with the very good suggestions above on polar aligning with PHD2 and Sharpcap.

[Davey-T]

I think you should be able to use plate solving, my 10Micron can do a few plate solves then you goto a star using crosshairs and adjust the alt / az bolts to centre it, gets me PAd to a very accurate level.

Curiously when I was working in Chislehurst a while ago the residents were up in arms because Network Rail felled all the trees on the embankment at the end of their gardens and  the passengers could see straight into their bedroom windows, they said it was to keep the leaves off the line, elf & safety, so they weren't obliged to consult anybody.

Dave

[johnrt]

35 minutes ago, Davey-T said:

I think you should be able to use plate solving, my 10Micron can do a few plate solves then you goto a star using crosshairs and adjust the alt / az bolts to centre it, gets me PAd to a very accurate level.

Curiously when I was working in Chislehurst a while ago the residents were up in arms because Network Rail felled all the trees on the embankment at the end of their gardens and  the passengers could see straight into their bedroom windows, they said it was to keep the leaves off the line, elf & safety, so they weren't obliged to consult anybody.

Dave

Is that part of the 10Micron software Dave, or an external application?

It seems Network Rail make it up as they go along, they were advertising in Sevenoaks station on a TV screen last time I was there about how they manage trees to avoid leaves etc on the line and nuisance vegetation for their neighbours, but then won't lift a finger when asked to do so, and roll up to demolish everything without anyone raising a concern!

 

I received a reply from the Asset Management team this afternoon, which was a very polite "go away" and talk to the Community Relations team, who had the day before passed me on the the Asset Management team! Don't you just love it!

[Davey-T]

It's a combination of Maxim and Pinpoint, not sure how much input the mount software has.

This is from t'other night, I can see Polaris but it wasn't part of the process.

Dave

[johnrt]

Well that didn't go well. I attempted to drift align in PHD2, my mount was still polar aligned using the polar scope from last time I used it, I slewed due south and the lowest declination possible - just under 30 degrees, which is about 70 degrees in altitude about the horizon.

PHD2 on the first run reported a PA error of less than 2 arc minutes without me making any changes from the PA dialled in with the polar scope last time out, after 3 sets of adjustments it was reporting over 8 minutes of error.

Conclusion, drift align is out!

[Chris]

Just trying to think of ideas John and the only things I can think of might be a bit radical: 

-Build a fixed pier with mount in situ (obviously needs good weather proofing) 

-Build an obsy to solve said weather proofing of a pier

-change your mount for a Celestron which has an all star polar align routine

and finally !!

- Borrow Odd Jobs razer sharp bowling hat to throw at the trees!!

 

[Thalestris24]

Hi

If you can point your mount to close as you can to true north (az adjust) with the aid of a compass app, then drift align in PHD2 to the east (or west) (alt adjust) that should be good enough, I think. It's what I do, though I only image to the east or west and in that case the az component seems to be less significant anyway.

Louise

[Davey-T]

Don't know how accurate PHD is, I've had different errors reported when nothing has been adjusted.

Dave

[Thalestris24]

1 minute ago, Davey-T said:

Don't know how accurate PHD is, I've had different errors reported when nothing has been adjusted.

Dave

Hi Dave

The PHD2 drift align tool seems pretty accurate providing drift times are long enough (from memory, ~ a minute or so with a finder guider) . Works for me!  

Louise

[Davey-T]

Just now, Thalestris24 said:

Hi Dave

The PHD2 drift align tool seems pretty accurate providing drift times are long enough (from memory, ~ a minute or so with a finder guider) . Works for me!  

Louise

Yes it works for me, just that I've had different PA errors reported without actually making any adjustments in between.

Dave

[Thalestris24]

Just now, Davey-T said:

Yes it works for me, just that I've had different PA errors reported without actually making any adjustments in between.

Dave

PA errors reported by what exactly? I wouldn't go by the guiding assistant as that seems to compute instantaneous values which are badly affected by seeing.

[Davey-T]

By the log analyser thingy.

Dave

[Thalestris24]

1 minute ago, Davey-T said:

By the log analyser thingy.

Dave

I think that might be similar to the guiding assistant. I'd just go by what the drift align tool says. As my rigs don't often move I only check my pa from time to time but it seems quite stable. I never bother looking at the logs...

[Davey-T]

Well while I've been sitting here chatting I thought I was taking a 1200 sec Luminance sub of M33, just been out to see how it came out and I had the filter wheel on HA 

Started it again now, I've already wasted an hour of clear sky tonight trying to get autofocus to work.

Dave

[Thalestris24]

Just now, Davey-T said:

Well while I've been sitting here chatting I thought I was taking a 1200 sec Luminance sub of M33, just been out to see how it came out and I had the filter wheel on HA 

Started it again now, I've already wasted an hour of clear sky tonight trying to get autofocus to work.

Dave

Oh dear, it's hard, frustrating work this imaging business.... 1200s is a long sub! Long ones are always risky!

[Davey-T]

1 minute ago, Thalestris24 said:

Oh dear, it's hard, frustrating work this imaging business.... 1200s is a long sub! Long ones are always risky!

Especially when you're half asleep 

Dave

[Brent]

You can also easily add as many new stars to the Alignmaster database as you like to give you many more options in pairs. Just add them in the correct format in the sterne.txt file. Closer pairs will obviously need more iterations carrying out to increase the accuracy though. This is what I've had to do to get usable pairs from my setup location and it's worked very well.

[whipdry]

Found these;

http://canburytech.net/DriftAlign/DriftAlign_4.html

http://myplace.frontier.com/~nathan56/Towne2012-DriftPolarAlignment.pdf

It's a single star method that can be performed away from the Pole... hope your math is better than mine!

 

Peter

[johnrt]

On 09/09/2016 at 21:57, whipdry said:

Found these;

http://canburytech.net/DriftAlign/DriftAlign_4.html

http://myplace.frontier.com/~nathan56/Towne2012-DriftPolarAlignment.pdf

It's a single star method that can be performed away from the Pole... hope your math is better than mine!

 

Peter

Eurgh, I have no idea what that is all about!

 

Well looks like Network Rail will let me pay for work to be done on the trees, I'm just waiting to hear what their rates are, prepare for eye watering quote!

[kirkster501]

I think you have to accept that whilst you might want the trees felled John, many people do indeed like tress (PITA that they are in your case) and many would be upset to see them go - I can understand Network Rail to some extent. I think you need to forget that line of approach to the problem and find a solution that you are in control of.