New Setup for Astrophotography

[Stub Mandrel]

As a 130P-DS owner with three whole nights imaging with the scope under my belt, I would thoroughly recommend it as a beginner's choice because:

1. It is cheap, and even adding a coma corrector (you will want to at some point) is not hugely expensive
2. It is light and will work with a smaller mount if you can't afford to move to a bigger mount just yet
3. Being fairly small and light it is much easier to store and move around that, say, my 150PL which is twice as long and three times as heavy
4. It gathers enough light for 30-60 second exposures to collect plenty of detail, important of you don't have a guided mount
5. The image quality (with coma corrector) is the equal of refractor scopes costing far more
6. It is an ideal focal length - long enough for galaxies to show detail, short enough for most nebulae
7. The dual-speed focuser is smooth and is fine enough to let you reach focus easily (in seconds with a bahtinov mask and a bright star)
8. It isn't hard to collimate
9. It gives great visual performance as well
10. It is very easy to use, the focal ratio of 4.7 is a good balance between light-gathering ability without making it too fussy regarding focusing and collimation

Having looked hard at all the options starting out assuming I needed a bigger scope and a bigger mount, the more I read of what people were achieving with the 130P-DS the more I realised that for imaging on a budget the important factors are what you might call 'handiness' and optical quality. I also figured out that unlike some cheap options this is a scope you would probably continue to use, even if you complemented it with more advanced ones later.

 

[Louis D]

6 hours ago, Stub Mandrel said:

As a 130P-DS owner with three whole nights imaging with the scope under my belt, I would thoroughly recommend it as a beginner's choice

Yes, it would seem to be an excellent choice indeed.  I'm not sure it's even available on this side of the pond (only 8", 10", and 12" Quattro OTAs are listed).  From what I've seen on the web, with a CC, it won't be the limiting factor in your imaging as a beginner.

[Alan64]

8 hours ago, Louis D said:

Yes, it would seem to be an excellent choice indeed.  I'm not sure it's even available on this side of the pond (only 8", 10", and 12" Quattro OTAs are listed).  From what I've seen on the web, with a CC, it won't be the limiting factor in your imaging as a beginner.

It is available in the States, sort of...

https://www.kwtelescope.com/telescopes/reflectors/sky-watcher-bkp-130-otaw-dual-speed.html

...and for US$282.24.  Shipping could be US$30 or more.

Last September, I had an Antares 805 80mm f/6 achromat shipped from Ontario, and for only US$25.

[Gerry Casa Christiana]

On August 8, 2016 at 17:11, Stub Mandrel said:

As a 130P-DS owner with three whole nights imaging with the scope under my belt, I would thoroughly recommend it as a beginner's choice because:

1. It is cheap, and even adding a coma corrector (you will want to at some point) is not hugely expensive
2. It is light and will work with a smaller mount if you can't afford to move to a bigger mount just yet
3. Being fairly small and light it is much easier to store and move around that, say, my 150PL which is twice as long and three times as heavy
4. It gathers enough light for 30-60 second exposures to collect plenty of detail, important of you don't have a guided mount
5. The image quality (with coma corrector) is the equal of refractor scopes costing far more
6. It is an ideal focal length - long enough for galaxies to show detail, short enough for most nebulae
7. The dual-speed focuser is smooth and is fine enough to let you reach focus easily (in seconds with a bahtinov mask and a bright star)
8. It isn't hard to collimate
9. It gives great visual performance as well
10. It is very easy to use, the focal ratio of 4.7 is a good balance between light-gathering ability without making it too fussy regarding focusing and collimation

Having looked hard at all the options starting out assuming I needed a bigger scope and a bigger mount, the more I read of what people were achieving with the 130P-DS the more I realised that for imaging on a budget the important factors are what you might call 'handiness' and optical quality. I also figured out that unlike some cheap options this is a scope you would probably continue to use, even if you complemented it with more advanced ones later.

 

Thanks ever so much. Couple of questions. 

What mount are you using? 

Also could I get the SW 150Pds and put that on a eq5 pro and for it to do a decent job. I like the idea of the visual aspect as well or will a 130 pds be better for both. 

Which coma corrector? Sky watcher?

my birthday is in September so it's almost decision time. 

 

Thanks

[Stub Mandrel]

1 hour ago, Gerry Casa Christiana said:

Thanks ever so much. Couple of questions. 

What mount are you using? 

Also could I get the SW 150Pds and put that on a eq5 pro and for it to do a decent job. I like the idea of the visual aspect as well or will a 130 pds be better for both. 

Which coma corrector? Sky watcher?

my birthday is in September so it's almost decision time. 

 

Thanks

NEQ3-2 mount on EQ5 tripod

I can't say from experience but I would guess the 150P-DS will be fine on the EQ5 as my EQ5PL which is longer and heavier works on the EQ3.

Skywatcher CC.

 

[Gerry Casa Christiana]

On 6 August 2016 at 19:18, Alan64 said:

This is the 130mm f/5 Newtonian, with a 650mm focal-length, that's configured for imaging...

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/reflectors/skywatcher-explorer-130p-ds-ota.html

...or...

http://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p3933_Skywatcher-Explorer-130PDS---130mm-f-5-Newtonian---2--Crayford-focuser.html

Casual imaging, afocal and webcam, would be possible when mounted on an EQ-3.  For longer exposures with a DSLR, you'll need to up the ante on the mount, and to at least an EQ-5.  Also, Newtonians are inherently apochromatic.

Do you have experience with Newtonians?

Yes a little experience with Newtonians my father had a Meade 10" reflector. I also have the opportunity to buy for 500€ a HEQ5 goto with synscan 3.35 here in Italy but it is 5 years old. Would I be making a mistake? Or should I grab it instead of a new eq5 and put a nice new SW 130 pds on it?

[Alan64]

The used mount might be a great bargain, or a nightmare, depending on what the seller discloses, or not, when asked about its condition.  That would be for you to extract from the seller.  Why is it being sold?  Is the software upgradeable?  Has it been little used, or heavily used?

In so far as the telescope itself,  it should make for a great deep-sky imaging instrument, and second only to an 80mm fast-apochromat which is far more costly.

[Gerry Casa Christiana]

16 hours ago, Alan64 said:

The used mount might be a great bargain, or a nightmare, depending on what the seller discloses, or not, when asked about its condition.  That would be for you to extract from the seller.  Why is it being sold?  Is the software upgradeable?  Has it been little used, or heavily used?

In so far as the telescope itself,  it should make for a great deep-sky imaging instrument, and second only to an 80mm fast-apochromat which is far more costly.

Here is the link. Too be honest I don't like the look of it but it's either a second hand heq5 or a new eq5. Could you look at the link pictures just to see if discerning eyes see something I do not. To me looks a little scruffy http://www.astrosell.it/annuncio.php?Id=72485 

I should be able to get it for 500€ but as it is my first scope myself maybe I should start brand new. 

Gerry

[Alan64]

I'm afraid that the used mount's true nature could only be discovered after using it for a period of time. 

This one would serve... http://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p3800_Skywatcher-EQ-5-PRO-SynScan-GOTO-Mount-with-tripod.html

Then you have the new HEQ-5... http://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p430_Skywatcher-HEQ-5-SynScan---German-GoTo-Computer-Mount.html

...but for over twice the cost of the used mount.  It all depends on how serious you are in wanting to image. 

Now, in the case of visual observations, the mount is of less importance.  Take this 1700€ refractor on a 270€ mount for example...

With imaging, it's the opposite.  One may use a much less expensive telescope with which to image, the 130P-DS for example, but the mount must be able to support the telescope rigidly throughout its range of motion, throughout the long exposures, else the images will soften or blur.  The kit must also be able to withstand the winds when they blow.  The HEQ-5 might be better than the EQ-5 in resisting the winds, and the EQ-6 would be even more able...

http://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p432_Skywatcher-EQ6-Syntrek---equatorial-Mount-with-Tripod-and-dual-axis-drive-system.html

http://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p433_Skywatcher-EQ-6-Pro-SynScan-GoTo-equatorial-Mount---Telescopes-to-20kg.html

Astrophotography is a whole other animal compared to observations with eyepieces; and as you will come to find in future, far more costly.

[Alan64]

That said, you may also consider this option...

http://www.revolutionimager.com/

http://www.highpointscientific.com/revolution-imager-r2-kit-with-viewing-screen-ri-kitr2 (New Jersey, U.S.)

...or other video webcams, and all from which to create stills.

Then, you can perhaps entertain a bit more aperture, for enhanced visual use with oculars, and imaging...

http://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p3886_Skywatcher-Explorer-150PDS---6--f-5-Newtonian---2--Dual-Speed.html

...and on the EQ-5... http://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p3800_Skywatcher-EQ-5-PRO-SynScan-GOTO-Mount-with-tripod.html

A kit like that can be great fun, too, and the most I would consider for myself, as I'm not yet ready for a camera to "see" for me.

[Alan64]

Then, in downsizing further, but not necessarily on the fun...

...a video camera, and with these other options for a visual/imaging kit...

http://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p4719_Celestron-CG-4-OMNI-German-Equatorial-Mount-and-Tripod.html

http://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p400_Skywatcher-Dual-Axis-Stepper-Motor-w--Controller-for-EQ3---CG-4.html

http://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p3933_Skywatcher-Explorer-130PDS---130mm-f-5-Newtonian---2--Crayford-focuser.html

...but without go-to.

 

This is a truly fine 150mm f/5 Newtonian... http://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p7280_Orion-UK-VX6-Newtonian-Telescope-6--F5---1-10-Lambda---optical-tube.html

I have a 150mm f/5, and on that same Celestron CG-4(EQ-3) equatorial listed above, albeit modified...

...and motorised in right-ascension only.

I could make use of a video imaging set-up myself with that kit, and perhaps with more success than I'd have a right to expect.

[Gerry Casa Christiana]

On August 20, 2016 at 23:53, Alan64 said:

I'm afraid that the used mount's true nature could only be discovered after using it for a period of time. 

This one would serve... http://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p3800_Skywatcher-EQ-5-PRO-SynScan-GOTO-Mount-with-tripod.html

Then you have the new HEQ-5... http://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p430_Skywatcher-HEQ-5-SynScan---German-GoTo-Computer-Mount.html

...but for over twice the cost of the used mount.  It all depends on how serious you are in wanting to image. 

Now, in the case of visual observations, the mount is of less importance.  Take this 1700€ refractor on a 270€ mount for example...

With imaging, it's the opposite.  One may use a much less expensive telescope with which to image, the 130P-DS for example, but the mount must be able to support the telescope rigidly throughout its range of motion, throughout the long exposures, else the images will soften or blur.  The kit must also be able to withstand the winds when they blow.  The HEQ-5 might be better than the EQ-5 in resisting the winds, and the EQ-6 would be even more able...

http://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p432_Skywatcher-EQ6-Syntrek---equatorial-Mount-with-Tripod-and-dual-axis-drive-system.html

http://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p433_Skywatcher-EQ-6-Pro-SynScan-GoTo-equatorial-Mount---Telescopes-to-20kg.html

Astrophotography is a whole other animal compared to observations with eyepieces; and as you will come to find in future, far more costly.

Thanks for all the brilliant suggestions. I'm going to go and see the mount and ask to see it running. Is there anything I should look for when testing it. 

If I do buy it I'll either pair it up with a SW 130pds or a 150. Would the bigger aperture make much difference in this case? 

Thank you for sharing your knowledge. 

 

 

[Alan64]

1 hour ago, Gerry Casa Christiana said:

Thanks for all the brilliant suggestions. I'm going to go and see the mount and ask to see it running. Is there anything I should look for when testing it. 

If I do buy it I'll either pair it up with a SW 130pds or a 150. Would the bigger aperture make much difference in this case? 

Thank you for sharing your knowledge. 

You're most welcome, and thank you for your kind words.

You will not know the true condition of the mount until you begin imaging.  Are you going to image, there, in front of the seller; of course not.  It's going to be a gamble, as in roulette, and as to the winner taking all, just who will that be?

Look over this HEQ-5 manual, and note what it comes with, then look over the used one...

http://www.telescope.com/assets/product_files/instructions/29280_07-10.pdf

Incidentally, I'm not seeing a counterweight shaft, let alone counterweight(s) within the advertisement.  Also, is the polar scope absent, too?  You'll need that to aim the RA axis at Polaris.  To test the mount, a telescope would need to be attached to it, balanced, then run through its paces with the motors, noting any jerkiness or freezing...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VA4eGJjFU1s

 

Of the two, a 130mmf/5 Newtonian is best for DSLR deep-sky imaging, as a camera's sensor is far more sensitive than the human eye, therefore a camera does not require large apertures.  A 150mm f/5 may also be used for DSLR imaging(on an EQ-6 at least), but would favour visual use instead, with eyepieces, as the eyes would benefit from the larger aperture.

Yes, a 150mm aperture is a good bit brighter than a 130mm...

 

The 7mm circle in blue illustrates the maximum diameter of the dark-adapted pupil of the human eye.  Telescopes are pupils in and of themselves; extensions for our eyes.

Just how large of a pupil would you like? 

[Louis D]

22 hours ago, Gerry Casa Christiana said:

If I do buy it I'll either pair it up with a SW 130pds or a 150. Would the bigger aperture make much difference in this case?

In photography, it is the f-ratio that matters, not the aperture.  A faster f-ratio will yield shorter exposures to collect the same exposure level.  The only thing the larger aperture buys you, if the f-ratio remains constant, is a larger image scale because the focal length has to grow to maintain constant f-ratio.  A larger image scale may be desirable for smaller objects, but may force you to assemble a collage of images to image larger objects.

[Gerry Casa Christiana]

On 21 August 2016 at 02:10, Alan64 said:

Then, in downsizing further, but not necessarily on the fun...

...a video camera, and with these other options for a visual/imaging kit...

http://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p4719_Celestron-CG-4-OMNI-German-Equatorial-Mount-and-Tripod.html

http://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p400_Skywatcher-Dual-Axis-Stepper-Motor-w--Controller-for-EQ3---CG-4.html

http://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p3933_Skywatcher-Explorer-130PDS---130mm-f-5-Newtonian---2--Crayford-focuser.html

...but without go-to.

 

This is a truly fine 150mm f/5 Newtonian... http://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p7280_Orion-UK-VX6-Newtonian-Telescope-6--F5---1-10-Lambda---optical-tube.html

I have a 150mm f/5, and on that same Celestron CG-4(EQ-3) equatorial listed above, albeit modified...

...and motorised in right-ascension only.

I could make use of a video imaging set-up myself with that kit, and perhaps with more success than I'd have a right to expect.

Thanks for all your help. It looks like I will get a new mount after all but I like to explore all the options. I like the video camera option but I think I need to see better quality pictures but a great idea especially to show others. 

Im very interested in the VX6 what goto mount could I get away with. I see its 4kg but there is a option to choose types of optics you want. For example if I took the eq5 goto but the better optics on the VX6 or is it all mount first? 

It looks like I have £1,000 to spend so I'm looking in getting the best out of it. 

Thanks for all your help. I want to make my first purchase a good one as I'm likely not to change it! Only add to it

[Alan64]

4 minutes ago, Gerry Casa Christiana said:

Thanks for all your help. It looks like I will get a new mount after all but I like to explore all the options. I like the video camera option but I think I need to see better quality pictures but a great idea especially to show others. 

Im very interested in the VX6 what goto mount could I get away with. I see its 4kg but there is a option to choose types of optics you want. For example if I took the eq5 goto but the better optics on the VX6 or is it all mount first? 

It looks like I have £1,000 to spend so I'm looking in getting the best out of it. 

Thanks for all your help. I want to make my first purchase a good one as I'm likely not to change it! Only add to it

You're most welcome!

The EQ-5 go-to would allow for visual use with oculars and video astronomy(dynamic and static images; that is, movies and stills) with a 150mm f/5, with short exposures possible with a DSLR. 

Mounting a DSLR to a 150mm f/5 for moderate to long exposures would probably require, again, an EQ-6, and for best results.  A 130mm f/5 would have better success on an EQ-5 in that regard.

I cannot stress enough how important it is to hold a telescope ever so rigidly, whilst in motion, and in the taking of long photographic exposures with a DSLR, and that takes a robust mount; else, the images will be soft if not a blur.  If you feel that you would become passionate in the desire to expertly image deep-sky objects, then an HEQ-5 and a 130mm f/5 would make for the barest minimum.  Ideally, even the 130mm f/5 should ride on an EQ-6 for truly successful deep-sky astrophotography.

[Gerry Casa Christiana]

58 minutes ago, Alan64 said:

You're most welcome!

The EQ-5 go-to would allow for visual use with oculars and video astronomy(dynamic and static images; that is, movies and stills) with a 150mm f/5, with short exposures possible with a DSLR. 

Mounting a DSLR to a 150mm f/5 for moderate to long exposures would probably require, again, an EQ-6, and for best results.  A 130mm f/5 would have better success on an EQ-5 in that regard.

I cannot stress enough how important it is to hold a telescope ever so rigidly, whilst in motion, and in the taking of long photographic exposures with a DSLR, and that takes a robust mount; else, the images will be soft if not a blur.  If you feel that you would become passionate in the desire to expertly image deep-sky objects, then an HEQ-5 and a 130mm f/5 would make for the barest minimum.  Ideally, even the 130mm f/5 should ride on an EQ-6 for truly successful deep-sky astrophotography.

Yes ok that sounds great. Yes astrophotography is the passion. I noticed here I can get a EQ-6 but it's the syntrek version. Would this be a better option than HEQ-5

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/skywatcher-mounts/skywatcher-eq6-syntrek.html

The price point is better. 

 

 

[Stub Mandrel]

1 hour ago, Alan64 said:

Ideally, even the 130mm f/5 should ride on an EQ-6 for truly successful deep-sky astrophotography.

But at a push the 130P-DS can get by with an EQ3

 

[Alan64]

9 hours ago, Stub Mandrel said:

But at a push the 130P-DS can get by with an EQ3

 

In a pinch, I'm sure.

[Alan64]

9 hours ago, Gerry Casa Christiana said:

Yes ok that sounds great. Yes astrophotography is the passion. I noticed here I can get a EQ-6 but it's the syntrek version. Would this be a better option than HEQ-5

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/skywatcher-mounts/skywatcher-eq6-syntrek.html

The price point is better.

The EQ-6 Syntrek is non-goto, but it is the same as the EQ-6 Pro otherwise, with the only difference being the hand controllers.  If, in future, you'd want to upgrade it to a go-to, all you'd have to do is swap out the controllers.

It's much heavier than the others, and would certainly support either a 130mm f/5 or a 150mm f/5.  For visual use only, it would support a 200mm f/5, and even a 250mm f/5...

http://www.orionoptics.co.uk/VX/vx10-10l.html

As another member suggested, photography is possible with a 130mm f/5 on an EQ-3...

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/reflectors/skywatcher-explorer-130p-ds-eq3-pro-goto.html

...but you might have to swap out the aluminum tripod for one of steel... http://www.rothervalleyoptics.co.uk/skywatcher-stainless-steel-tripod-175-for-eq5heq5.html

However, I'd recommend either the EQ-5 Pro or the HEQ-5(Syntek or Pro) and a 130mm f/5...

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/reflectors/skywatcher-explorer-130p-ds-ota.html

In future, you might then mount either a VX6, or even a VX8, on the EQ-5 for casual and serious visual use...

http://www.orionoptics.co.uk/VX/vx8-8l.html

   ...and with the 1/10PV upgrade...

http://www.orionoptics.co.uk/OPTICS/pvexplained.html

[Gerry Casa Christiana]

On 28 August 2016 at 00:23, Alan64 said:

The EQ-6 Syntrek is non-goto, but it is the same as the EQ-6 Pro otherwise, with the only difference being the hand controllers.  If, in future, you'd want to upgrade it to a go-to, all you'd have to do is swap out the controllers.

It's much heavier than the others, and would certainly support either a 130mm f/5 or a 150mm f/5.  For visual use only, it would support a 200mm f/5, and even a 250mm f/5...

http://www.orionoptics.co.uk/VX/vx10-10l.html

As another member suggested, photography is possible with a 130mm f/5 on an EQ-3...

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/reflectors/skywatcher-explorer-130p-ds-eq3-pro-goto.html

...but you might have to swap out the aluminum tripod for one of steel... http://www.rothervalleyoptics.co.uk/skywatcher-stainless-steel-tripod-175-for-eq5heq5.html

However, I'd recommend either the EQ-5 Pro or the HEQ-5(Syntek or Pro) and a 130mm f/5...

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/reflectors/skywatcher-explorer-130p-ds-ota.html

In future, you might then mount either a VX6, or even a VX8, on the EQ-5 for casual and serious visual use...

http://www.orionoptics.co.uk/VX/vx8-8l.html

   ...and with the 1/10PV upgrade...

http://www.orionoptics.co.uk/OPTICS/pvexplained.html

Well today I'm going to see a almost new skywatcher 150pds he is a astronomer of 20 years and it looks immaculate 220€. I like the idea of just going to pick it up 10km from me. So if all goes well this evening it looks like I'll just be looking for the mount. 

I was looking at the ioptron ZEQ25 it seems to be around the same price point as the HEQ5 are these any good in practice?

I would love to have the vixen but I think then I'm going to have to compromise on the mount  so I would rather have a better mount for the future  

All this advice your giving I'll have to give you a discount on a visit to our b&b  certainly some perfect skies where I live

Gerry

 

[Stub Mandrel]

3 hours ago, Gerry Casa Christiana said:

Well today I'm going to see a almost new skywatcher 150pds he is a astronomer of 20 years and it looks immaculate 220€. I like the idea of just going to pick it up 10km from me. So if all goes well this evening it looks like I'll just be looking for the mount.

That's a very small saving over a new one - are there some extras (like a coma corrector) - FLO sell the 15-0P-DS as optical tube only for the equivalent of 245E.

[Alan64]

I know nothing of the iOptron mounts.  They are a relative newcomer, yet they do enjoy a respectable following.  I would simply research that particular model, and see what the users have to say about it.  I did note, "Payload ... 27 lb (12.3kg), excluding counterweight", which is quite possible.  It certainly is an eye-full.

I'm always suspicious when it comes to used items.  An amateur astronomer with 20 years experience may know something unpleasant about that telescope: an off-kilter star-test, a turned-down edge; quite possibly some optical deficiency that he may have detected.  Upon meeting with the seller, and after the pleasantries are concluded, your first words should be, "Why are you selling it?  Is there something wrong with it?  What's the star-test like?"; those sorts of questions.  The heart of the telescope is its primary mirror.  Here's the primary from my own 150mm f/5, and made by the same manufacturer that made the one you're considering; Synta Optical of China...

It's the most important component of any Newtonian, and you want one without serious or even mild defects.  I've witnessed snap-to focussing with that one, so I'm supposing it's not half-bad.  You can only see a mirror's defects with special equipment, and also via the star-test.

With a new one, you'd have a warranty.

[Gerry Casa Christiana]

On August 29, 2016 at 20:11, Alan64 said:

I know nothing of the iOptron mounts.  They are a relative newcomer, yet they do enjoy a respectable following.  I would simply research that particular model, and see what the users have to say about it.  I did note, "Payload ... 27 lb (12.3kg), excluding counterweight", which is quite possible.  It certainly is an eye-full.

I'm always suspicious when it comes to used items.  An amateur astronomer with 20 years experience may know something unpleasant about that telescope: an off-kilter star-test, a turned-down edge; quite possibly some optical deficiency that he may have detected.  Upon meeting with the seller, and after the pleasantries are concluded, your first words should be, "Why are you selling it?  Is there something wrong with it?  What's the star-test like?"; those sorts of questions.  The heart of the telescope is its primary mirror.  Here's the primary from my own 150mm f/5, and made by the same manufacturer that made the one you're considering; Synta Optical of China...

It's the most important component of any Newtonian, and you want one without serious or even mild defects.  I've witnessed snap-to focussing with that one, so I'm supposing it's not half-bad.  You can only see a mirror's defects with special equipment, and also via the star-test.

With a new one, you'd have a warranty.

Thanks for all your help. I did go to see it and something inside said no. When I looked at the mirror it was first quite dusty not that would affect it but I noticed some larger spots. So I didn't get it. 

Looks like I'll order it from first optics I am just concerned about the trip from the Uk to Italy. I'll give them a call and ask what couriers they use insurance etc. 

 

[Alan64]

Mine came from California, and that's a greater distance I expect.  They generally pack them well, as they had originally made a trip from China.

You'll like that Newtonian.  It's compact for its size, and it will come with a serviceable two-speed focusser for greater focussing control.

You'll need a Cheshire, so order that along with it.  I wish it was available here, as it's one of the best in the world...

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/other-collimation-tools/premium-cheshire-collimating-eyepiece.html

Also, ask if the telescope comes with a collimation-cap.  If not, then get this one, and in addition to the Cheshire...

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/other-collimation-tools/rigel-aline-collimation-cap.html