LASER attack!

[jambouk]

I'm surprised there hasn't been any discussion on here about the recent news article that an aircraft had to make an unscheduled landing because one of the pilots had a medical issue following a "LASER attack".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35580261

I don't own one of those bright LASERs I've seen used at star parties, but I'm equally surprised no one on the news has talked about "astronomers" using them. One expert on the news said he wasn't aware of any reason someone would own one. I'm not sure of the type used in this attack, but the ones I've seen at star parties are pretty bright.

I wonder if new legislation will come about because of this recent incident and apparent rising number of these sorts of incidents.

James

 

[todd8137]

This was not  one of those my out would see at a star party ,this was a powerful one  most of those star pRty ones are nothing compared to this one 

pat

[wuthton]

What kind of unmitigated muppet do you have to be to point a laser at an aircraft regardless of its power? 

[laudropb]

Have to agree with James. I think any legislation will scupper their use in astronomy.

[The Admiral]

I'm no authority on this, but there has been quite a bit of chatter on pilot's forums on this, but you are right, I think there needs to be greater awareness of the issues surrounding the shining of lasers into the sky. Personally, I would never shine a laser into the sky.

I've heard that one of the problems is that we have no national controls, but rather, it is left to local trading standards officers to police. And some powerful lasers are coming into this country, by one means or another. Suffice to say, though, that anyone wanting to deliberately affect flight safety would probably get hold of them whatever. I recently saw a report of a pilot's eye receiving permanent injury, though fortunately not blinded, as a result of a powerful blue laser.

Ian

[Dave In Vermont]

The UK already limits the maximum output on these to 1mW. Whereas over here 5mW is allowed. And here, if your convicted of aiming these at aircraft, you'll win a 10-year vacation at the Gray-Bar Hilton.

If you use one of these - always check your background before turning it on. Much like a gun, once you fire these - you can't call it back.

Dave

[DaveS]

What worries me is the knee-jerk "ban them" reaction.

What? All lasers?

We use low power (1-2 mW) lasers in physics at school for interference / diffraction studies, which would be near impossible to carry out without them. Plus, of course the builders who use alignment lasers in their work, not to mention surveyors and, and, and... the list is endless.

ASA also incorporate polar alignment lasers in their DDM mounts. not that I'd be inclined to use one, living so close to RAF Northholt. Don't want the boys in blue turning up on my doorstep, or the men in black dropping out of the sky to drag me away.

[Psychobilly]

There's legislation already in place  which led amongst other things to the majority of the higher power lasers  pointers no longer being listed on ebay.co.uk. It's enforcement that's the problem and the fact that people buy from elsewhere on the internet...

Peter...

 

 

[ollypenrice]

There are some people, mostly boys, who will point a laser at a plane because it is not what you are supposed to do. They just will. We know this perfectly well. They are not going to disappear so the only solution is to stop the supply of powerful lasers or accept that there will be incidents. Personally I'd stop the supply of lasers. 

Olly

 

[Davey-T]

As Dave S says there are lasers in all sorts of equipment so a blanket ban on lasers is not a good idea, I have two levelling / measuring lasers and my chop saw has a laser.

Really big one in use at Herstmonceux

Dave

[Psychobilly]

3 minutes ago, Davey-T said:

As Dave S says there are lasers in all sorts of equipment so a blanket ban on lasers is not a good idea, I have two levelling / measuring lasers and my chop saw has a laser.

Dave

I doubt it would be one of the ballon popping, match lighting card cutting types that used to be advertised on ebay...

As somebody who has worked with lasers from  milliwatt to multi-kilowatt and intense pulsed light systems since the late 80's it amazing how technology has moved on...

Peter...

 

[Uranium235]

5 minutes ago, Davey-T said:

As Dave S says there are lasers in all sorts of equipment so a blanket ban on lasers is not a good idea, I have two levelling / measuring lasers and my chop saw has a laser.

Dave

Not forgetting collimating lasers too!

[ollypenrice]

1 hour ago, wuthton said:

What kind of unmitigated muppet do you have to be to point a laser at an aircraft regardless of its power? 

Any common or garden unmitigated muppet will do. In a population of 60 million there is no need to go short, unfortunately. Muppets who are entirely alienated, who are angry and want to hurt, who are simply so silly as to think it can't really matter, who will do anything to impress their fellow muppets, who are bored, who get a kick out of breaking the rules, who are only temporarily moonlighting as muppets... 60 million is a big number.

(The perfectly intelligent teenage son of two of my perfectly intelligent teaching colleagues once put something on a train line and caused an express to stop. Why? Nobody knows, do they. He just did. He doesn't know why he did so what hope the rest of us?)

Olly

 

[Gina]

I live on three flight paths so any thoughts of using a laser pointing up to the sky are very much out!  I don't know about power levels or if the lasers astronomers use would be harmful to aircraft pilots but I would simply not risk it.  I have a laser level but I'm always very careful with it.  After the other incident of a boy being blinded by a hand held laser I'm definitely against people carrying hand held lasers in public - as with guns.  I do agree though that there could be problems both with enforcement and with any affect on innocent users.

[Davey-T]

21 minutes ago, PBS said:

I doubt it would be one of the ballon popping, match lighting card cutting types that used to be advertised on ebay...

As somebody who has worked with lasers from  milliwatt to multi-kilowatt and intense pulsed light systems since the late 80's it amazing how technology has moved on...

Peter...

 

I doubt many politicians know the difference

Dave

[Psychobilly]

You also have to contend with imports being wrongly classified...

In a previous life we used to get visits from "trading standards officers" asking us to test  and comment on products they had seized...

Peter...

 

[Stub Mandrel]

I know someone who has a laser powerful enough to etch metal and cut plywood, it's in a commercial CNC machine but how do you control hand held ones and still allow the legitimate use of them?

 

[iamjulian]

Don't understand why astronomers use them. Even if I was observing and showing friends the stars with one, if someone a few streets away was imaging, I could be wrecking their enjoyment. Plus there are planes all over the place. You cannot always see them very easily at night. I'd never point one at the sky!

[Gina]

I too don't know why astronomers use lasers - perhaps someone can tell us.  I understand it's something to do with showing where your scope is pointing by showing the beam by light reflected from dust particles (or water droplets) but I've never seen this done nor have I missed it for my own use.  I'm into imaging exclusively and use the image produced by the scope with software to tell me where it's pointing and if I want it pointing at a particular astro object, I pick that from Carte du Ceil (Skychart) and AstroTortilla software moves the mount until the star patterns match and my image is centred on the object I desire.  Whet benefit would a laser be?  This is not a rhetorical qusetion - I really would like to know.

[todd8137]

27 minutes ago, Gina said:

I too don't know why astronomers use lasers - perhaps someone can tell us.  I understand it's something to do with showing where your scope is pointing by showing the beam by light reflected from dust particles (or water droplets) but I've never seen this done nor have I missed it for my own use.  I'm into imaging exclusively and use the image produced by the scope with software to tell me where it's pointing and if I want it pointing at a particular astro object, I pick that from Carte du Ceil (Skychart) and AstroTortilla software moves the mount until the star patterns match and my image is centred on the object I desire.  Whet benefit would a laser be?  This is not a rhetorical qusetion - I really would like to know.

Have you ever done any public out reach ? I had around 5 kids and 5 parents round my house last night have you ever tried point a constellation out with your finger " ?. It's there look ,"where I here from the kids and parents " I got my laser pointer out ,had a quick scan around Leo no planes ect ,as soon as I pointed out the stars that make up Leo  with the  laser pointer ,they got it straight away ,so what your saying is we all need goto ? So we no where to point are scopes ?, what if you loose power can you still find things ?. if I show kids these programs and then exspect them to no where the constellation are pointing my finger would take ages 

so my point is  in the right hands these are a great astro tool for pointing things out when you have people who have never even thought about looking up  in your case so close to a airport I can see your point 

Pat 

[Gina]

Ah yes, I can see that - thank you   But I had the feeling that some astronomers used lasers even when they were on their own - maybe I should take a cruise round other forums on here

Thank you for your reply

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

I really do not see the use of some of the (banned) powerful lasers for home use. I have a little laser pointer for my presentations, and that works well. For pointing out constellations, I have simply used a narrow-beam torch in the past, which works well, and won't cause any trouble.

 

Regarding garden-type or wild-type muppets: any variety will do. ID10T errors abound, unfortunately

[todd8137]

20 minutes ago, Gina said:

Ah yes, I can see that - thank you   But I had the feeling that some astronomers used lasers even when they were on their own - maybe I should take a cruise round other forums on here

Thank you for your reply

I so see you can buy a laser holder  for manual  scopes  dobs and in motorised scopes but  out in the cold I could not see a laser being any good put on a,scope,to use for a pointing device ,because if I have mine on for longer than 15 secs,at  a time it drains the batt fast 

not sure what's you mean by  cruise round other forums ? on the net or sgl. .

pat

[Paul73]

Some children unthinkingly shone one at my car windscreen the other day. Nearly caused an accident. Some idiot had unthinkingly bought one and given it to their children as a toy with which to make nice pretty patterns! There are a lot of stupid people out there.

They should be banned (either the stupid people or the powerful pointers). Yes, it is bad luck for the rest of us, but not the end of the world.

Some sort of regulation is probably the way forward.

Paul

[Paul73]

6 minutes ago, todd8137 said:

I so see you can buy a laser holder  for manual  scopes  dobs and in motorised scopes but  out in the cold I could not see a laser being any good put on a,scope,to use for a pointing device ,

not sure what's you mean by  cruise round other forums on the net or sgl. .

pat

I've seen a few SGL threads about lasers which indicate that folks do use them on scopes as routine.

Could be that the journalists see astronomers as a reasonably responsible buch who wouldn't point a laser at a plane.

Paul