Disappointing

[leo82]

Hi all,

Tonight was the first clear night after getting my skywatcher skyliner 200p dob. I was soon out there letting the scope cool ( 1 hour). In that time I got my other stuff together, had a hot drink then come outside and did a bit of observing through my binoculars. Now my eyes had adjusted to the dark and scope cooled down I decided to try my new scope out. First of all the Pleiades, it was ok, better with bins. next was orions nebula, high expectations soon turned to disappointment. The national geographic 76/700 showed exactly the same sight of the nebula. Hmm must be low enough to catch the light pollution, i'll try Andromeda, exactly the same again as the other scope. I thought with the dob I would be able to sit down on a chair to use it, I spent all the time on my knees! Now The national geographic is a lot smaller and cheaper(£70 special at aldi) the 200p bigger, heavier and more expensive (£275) and there is no difference in the quality of observing except the equatorial mount being more comfortable to use than the dob. Surely something aint right?  

[Joe12345]

The dob should give brighter and more detailed views than the national geographic. I own the same one and after a while of using it, found that anything smaller was significantly 'worse'.

One possibility is that you only took off the small dust cap, reducing the light entering your scope.

Dobs are often at a bad height, but there's not much you can do about that.

[brantuk]

Hmmm .... did you have the two scopes outside at the same time? And are you sure you are comparing like for like? (eg same magnification, viewing conditions, fov etc). I'm sure there's a lot more to it than what can be gleaned from your short description. The dob will show much better views of M42 than the Nat Geo, maybe you need to scrutinise the view a bit more carefully to understand the differences - which can often be more subtle than you'd expect. There's an art to observing which takes a little time to pick up.

[Daniel-K]

32 minutes ago, leo82 said:

I thought with the dob I would be able to sit down on a chair to use it, I spent all the time on my knees! 

jesus how tall are you!!!  sorry couldnt resit. 

the 200p with give you a bigger image scale than the 76. it should be showing alot more nebulosity unless your LP is really that bad. try it on a GLOB . the 200p can resolve M3 or try m52 its up now i bet that 76mm cant see that

[Paul73]

The Dob should give very much better views! 

1/ Check light path. ie. All caps removed and a nothing in the tube / focuser

2/ Mirrors. Dew can be an issue on the secondary in particular. For a solid tube, remove the eyepiece. Shine a dim torch onto the secondary. If dewed up, warm secondary with hands or hair dryer (don't touch the reflective side).

3/ Eyepieces. If these can  get really cold. So when you put your warm moist eye to it there is the chance of misting up.

4/ Atmosphere is rubbish. As suggested above. Try against a known benchmark (the other scope or a familiar target).

hope that this helps.

Paul

[Paul73]

Some people put their scooes onto water but bases to make the whole thing a better hight. You are right to aspire to sitting down observing. Way more comfortable and easier to keep your eye still at the eyepiece.

Paul

[yamo]

So I also took my 200p dob out in west London tonight (zone 3). Super clear night as far as the sky is concerned. Having observed 5 or 6 times now, I conclude that from where I live in London I can see Jupiter and its cloud bands, a reasonable view of Orion's nebula, a faint image of Andromeda. Not much else! I really tried hard to find either the crab nebula or whirlpool but no chance. Light pollution is too severe. I will need to go to a star party I think!!

[Charic]

2 hours ago, leo82 said:

. Surely something aint right?  

And that's for you to try and find out?  One suggestion was that you have the dust cap still fitted, and you have only removed one of the raised 2" caps ( only one can be removed) That would account for poor quality, except if you were trying to view the Moon, where the 2" seriously reduces the glare.

The other scenario is the atmospheric conditions and light pollution. I can see many things from my garden including Andromeda M31, but its very small faint, and unless you knew what it was, could easily dismiss  it? If I observe from a darker site, I can't believe I`m using the same telescope, its just a superior experience.

The 200P Skyliner is a very capable telescope , so you/we collectively will try  to ascertain your issue here. keep looking!

[Adamchiv]

10 hours ago, leo82 said:

 

I am a complete novice but just thought it worth mentioning, have you collimated the 200p? (Forgive me if that seems in any way primative)

[swamp thing]

17 hours ago, yamo said:

So I also took my 200p dob out in west London tonight (zone 3). Super clear night as far as the sky is concerned. Having observed 5 or 6 times now, I conclude that from where I live in London I can see Jupiter and its cloud bands, a reasonable view of Orion's nebula, a faint image of Andromeda. Not much else! I really tried hard to find either the crab nebula or whirlpool but no chance. Light pollution is too severe. I will need to go to a star party I think!!

Getting out of dodge is certainly the best option for us. From home you should be able to pick up some of the brighter open clusters but even they look best from darker skies. Trust me the effort involved in getting your scope to a dark sky site is certainly worth it. 

[leo82]

Thanks for all your replies, I'm thinking it might be the case of the eyepieces being cold then misting over above all else. Only way to sort this out is to get outside, hopefully be clear again tonight!

ps I definetly took the main cover off the scope.

[ronl]

Put your eyepieces in your jacket pocket, with the dust caps on, they won't mist up so fast when you put your

eye to them, if the seeing is poor then the target you are observing will also be poor, hope you have a better night.

[Beulah]

14 minutes ago, ronl said:

Put your eyepieces in your jacket pocket, with the dust caps on, they won't mist up so fast when you put your eye to them,

One of the reasons why I double up on some of the eyepieces...  Let the other one demist in the pocket...and paving the way for a pair of binoviewers... 

[ronl]

Hairdryer is the way to go, pity they don't make a re-chargeable one.

[Linda]

About your sitting position: Ikea has or used to have a small staircase/chair that might suit you. It is very low to the ground and you can vary sitting on two heights.

[Darkstar_1]

16 hours ago, Linda said:

About your sitting position: Ikea has or used to have a small staircase/chair that might suit you. It is very low to the ground and you can vary sitting on two heights.

Hi,  I suffer with spinal stenosis and osteo arthritis and I found observing very painful so I invested in one of these.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B001DYQ1XM/ref=s9_simh_gw_p201_d0_i1?pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=desktop-1&pf_rd_r=1NC0J6W2WFG4N124KGQ6&pf_rd_t=36701&pf_rd_p=577048407&pf_rd_i=desktop

It is just as usable as an expensive observing chair, but you are not paying a fortune for a brand name. It is comfortable and does what it says on the tin.

[DaveS]

On ‎02‎/‎02‎/‎2016 at 23:19, yamo said:

So I also took my 200p dob out in west London tonight (zone 3). Super clear night as far as the sky is concerned. Having observed 5 or 6 times now, I conclude that from where I live in London I can see Jupiter and its cloud bands, a reasonable view of Orion's nebula, a faint image of Andromeda. Not much else! I really tried hard to find either the crab nebula or whirlpool but no chance. Light pollution is too severe. I will need to go to a star party I think!!

If you live in London you'll be doing well to get better than Bortle 8, especially in Zone 3 (I assume you mean the Tube Zones), though it can be very location dependent. I recently moved from Acton to Ruislip and hoped the sky would be darker but if anything it's slightly worse due to local effects.

[Darkstar_1]

20 hours ago, aeajr said:

Darkstar_1,

It is hard to tell from a photo but "ironing" chair looks to be very high.  I see you have a Dob.  How well does that work with your Dob?

I find I use my Denver chair at low to middle settings most of the time when using my Dob.   When using my refractor I will sometimes use the higher settings.

 

 

Hi the chair works fine with the dob, the pic is a bit misleading I think. I manage very well with it.

[leo82]

Thanks for the replies.

Unfortunatly the dob is not for me. Getting it out and using it is to uncomfortable. I'm going to go back to an eq mount as the height is perfect and the fine tuning is better than the dob.

[Linda]

4 hours ago, leo82 said:

Thanks for the replies.

Unfortunatly the dob is not for me. Getting it out and using it is to uncomfortable. I'm going to go back to an eq mount as the height is perfect and the fine tuning is better than the dob.

Interesting to hear this. So many people think the Dob is the ultimate good solution. Nice to hear for us EQ users without Dob experience to know there is another side of the story as well.

[markthg]

8 hours ago, leo82 said:

Thanks for the replies.

Unfortunatly the dob is not for me. Getting it out and using it is to uncomfortable. I'm going to go back to an eq mount as the height is perfect and the fine tuning is better than the dob.

I tried a dob for a few weeks prior to purchasing my scope and I couldn't get on with it either.

 

One thing I am learning fast with this hobby is that it is very personal, one persons bane is another's saviour.