Software needed for guiding

[piprees]

Hi,

I really feel the need to go guiding and well, I've downloaded PHD and I've read that I need an Ascom platform, then I've read that I need an Eqmod driver, then I've read that I need Stellarium, etc, etc. 

Can anyone tell me what I really do actually need, it's to guide a NEQ6 with a QHY511.

Also, I think that I've gone through the motions of downloading the Ascom platform 6.1 SP1 but all that I can find is the  install aware wizard. I click it to open and it does say installing said platform although, when it finishes, it says ascom platform 6.1 repaired. I click on finish and the whole lot disappears. Am I missing something here??? 

Any help is really appreciated,

Kind regards,

Phil

[Joseki]

I'm sorry I can't help with the specific problem with ASCOM installation but there is windows version specific advice on installing ASCOM.  http://ascom-standards.org/ i.e. XP http://ascom-standards.org/FAQs/Plat6OnXP.htm  and W7 http://ascom-standards.org/FAQs/Plat6OnW7.htm

..and a good link from those installation guides is http://www.tigranetworks.co.uk/blogs/electricdreams/the-definitive-guide-to-installing-ascom-platform-6-0-service-pack-1/

after installing it on my laptop (Win7) I can see a "ASCOM Platform 6" folder (plus various guides and tools) under the list of programs from my task bar.

Good advice I've read on here (and which helped me) is do it in this order:

1) install ASCOM

2) install EQMOD http://eq-mod.sourceforge.net/reqindex.html

3) check you can connect to your mount with EQMOD and learn how to use EQMOD

4) install CdC planetarium software http://www.ap-i.net/skychart/en/start

5) check all above works

6) then install PHD.

[DaveS]

Pretty much what John has just said. I run Cartes du Ciel, Eqmod via ASCOM, and PHD2.

Might be an idea to read "Making Every Photon Count" by our own Steve Richards if you haven't already.

[piprees]

Thanks John, I'll uninstall the PHD programs and give your list a go. Lousy weather for the next few days so nothing to loose.

P.

[Tinker1947]

Ascom and EQMod are not programs you run there called by PHD (guiding software) or for ease of use Carte Du Ciel (moves you scope).......

[piprees]

Just as an aside, I went into where to download EQMOD and found so many 'download now' signs, change your toolbar, change your default search engine, order a pizza........!! Which one do I press for eqmod???????

I'll get there in the end!!!

P.

[piprees]

Sorry Tinker, you lost me there.

P.

[Tinker1947]

Sorry Tinker, you lost me there.

P.

Ascom and EQMod once installed they sit in the back ground, you can't run them and get a screen up.....

[bruno]

have a look in your download files, for your ascom folder, if you have already got stellarium  connect your mount to the laptop open ascom & find your mount click on properties then choose the laptop port  then click ok , open up stellarium  then click on configuration  open up plug-ins then scrolll down to telescope control &  you dan name your scope set the port  & click ok you see a window with connect scope if it says connected  go to the search window & type polaris in then click enter stellarium should slew to polaris & you should have a target over polaris find anothre target  then click ctrl 1 and it should slew to the target

fit your scope & finder scope with qhy5-ll then start your phd program, thats another for you to work out

[Freddie]

If all you want to do is guide, you don't need EQMOD or CDC.

[piprees]

Thanks Tinker, that explains a lot. They don't actually do anything as such, just allow other things to do things.

I'll copy and print your explanation Bruno, it's quite an involved procedure.

To start off, I think I'll just try my luck with just PHD . Thanks Freddie. I'll see how I get on.

P.

[lensman57]

Hi,

I really feel the need to go guiding and well, I've downloaded PHD and I've read that I need an Ascom platform, then I've read that I need an Eqmod driver, then I've read that I need Stellarium, etc, etc. 

Can anyone tell me what I really do actually need, it's to guide a NEQ6 with a QHY511.

Also, I think that I've gone through the motions of downloading the Ascom platform 6.1 SP1 but all that I can find is the  install aware wizard. I click it to open and it does say installing said platform although, when it finishes, it says ascom platform 6.1 repaired. I click on finish and the whole lot disappears. Am I missing something here??? 

Any help is really appreciated,

Kind regards,

Phil

Hi,

I really feel the need to go guiding and well, I've downloaded PHD and I've read that I need an Ascom platform, then I've read that I need an Eqmod driver, then I've read that I need Stellarium, etc, etc. 

Can anyone tell me what I really do actually need, it's to guide a NEQ6 with a QHY511.

Also, I think that I've gone through the motions of downloading the Ascom platform 6.1 SP1 but all that I can find is the  install aware wizard. I click it to open and it does say installing said platform although, when it finishes, it says ascom platform 6.1 repaired. I click on finish and the whole lot disappears. Am I missing something here??? 

Any help is really appreciated,

Kind regards,

Phil

It would be helpful to know what your set up is, what OS you are using and how you are going to guide. Installation of the Ascom platform is almost mandatory for other devices such as guide cameras, filter wheels etc to communicate with the Ascom drivers.

A.G

[carastro]

You don't need to use EQMOd to guide, that is a separate item altogether.  I guide and rarely use EQMod.

Take one step at a time.

I have a QHY5 (I would be surprised if the drivers are much different):

Step 1: Guiding

Install ASCom platform (which you have already done

Install the QHY511 drivers

Run the QHY5 Ascom driver

Then connect your camera, one cable to the laptop and one to the guide port

Wait for the laptop to install the camera drivers

Use the same USB port each time or it will install the drivers again

You're installed for guiding.  You might need to tweak the settings in the brain - normally increasing the calibration steps helps with calibration.

Step 2 controlling the mount (should you so wish i.e. optional).

EQMOD, EQDir cables and Stellarium/Carte du ciel can come later if you wish to control your mount from the PC.  (N.B. EQMOd also requires Ascom platform, but the one you install for PHD guiding might well be fine for that too.  I am not giving instructions for that as you were only asking about guiding.

HTH

Carole 

[Marky1973]

Carole, I'm just about to get started on the dark art of guiding and that was a very timely, and helpful post, thanks!

[piprees]

Yes, thanks Carol, and to all on here. The whole subject seems complex but your replies have simplified quite a lot. As you said, take one step at a time.

P.

[Pompey Monkey]

Carole, I'm just about to get started on the dark art of guiding and that was a very timely, and helpful post, thanks!

It is not a "Dark Art" at all. 

It is just a closed loop feedback system that operates (or tries to) within the constraints of the inputs that it receives.

Unfortunately, much of the "wisdom" is passed down from sources that do not really understand what the system is doing, leading to endless confusion. Repeat for the "Dark Art" of polar alignment.

As a systems engineer, I wish I had the experience (and clout) to post a guide that really explains both. but I am not yet qualified to do so. Yet.

But, yes, guiding is bleedin' fantastic and you will never go back

BTW - Listen to Carole!

[carastro]

Glad to have helped (both of you).

Oh one bit I left out is connection to the camera.  I think in one of the menus at the top you need to select "on camera".

Once you have opened PHD click on the camera icon bottom left.  It should then come up with another box (sometimes it's a bit slow)  and select your camera.

Make sure your finderscope is focussed by loosening the ring (might be a good idea to use the Moon for getting first focus as it's nice and bright.  Then lock the ring so focus can't move.

Select the looping button to see stars (and the Moon) and once you are ready the guide, click on the star and then click on the PHD button and you will get a yellow interrupted line which means it's calibrating.  Once calibration is complete the line will turn green and this means you are guiding.

Oops, I still use PHD1 so it could be a little different in PHD2.

Carole 

[piprees]

Thanks Pompey Monkey, and when you do post, please be aware that there are loads of us out there that need to be treated gently.

And thanks again Carol. The way that you explain things is an example of what I mean.

P.

[Marky1973]

It is not a "Dark Art" at all. 

It is just a closed loop feedback system that operates (or tries to) within the constraints of the inputs that it receives.

Unfortunately, much of the "wisdom" is passed down from sources that do not really understand what the system is doing, leading to endless confusion. Repeat for the "Dark Art" of polar alignment.

As a systems engineer, I wish I had the experience (and clout) to post a guide that really explains both. but I am not yet qualified to do so. Yet.

But, yes, guiding is bleedin' fantastic and you will never go back

BTW - Listen to Carole!

Well it's definitely and ART an happens in the DARK so.... 

[carastro]

Just realised I was getting confused with another thread where we were discussing finderguiding.  

So if you're not using a finder guider, obviously ignore the info I wrote on that, but obviously you need to make sure your guidescope and camera are in focus.  If you're using an ST80 you might find you'll need to add a 2" extension piece in order to focus.  Often a redundant 1.25" Barlow (without the lens) works for this.

Carole 

[chrisshillito]

It is not a "Dark Art" at all. 

It is just a closed loop feedback system that operates (or tries to) within the constraints of the inputs that it receives.

The "Dark Art" description isn't necessarily one based upon ignorance but rather from the experience of the complexity of the control variables in play. The very closed loop nature of the system means that a change in output can result in a non proportional change in input, add into that the lags due to guide exposures , mount / camera communications etc. and the fact that control system sensitivity is liable to vary with object location, mount position and seeing conditions.  Achieving optimum control requires a fair amount of trial and error and, whilst that is of course an essential keystone of the scientific method, when you're out in the cold and dark tweeking your guide settings it can at times feel much more like pot luck!

Chris

[Tinker1947]

This is the spacing for a ST-80, the ccd has a c-thread extention so the sensor is a bit to the left of the yellow cable tye, the focuser tube being the silver bit  2" - 3" to the left...

[Marky1973]

The "Dark Art" description isn't necessarily one based upon ignorance but rather from the experience of the complexity of the control variables in play. The very closed loop nature of the system means that a change in output can result in a non proportional change in input, add into that the lags due to guide exposures , mount / camera communications etc. and the fact that control system sensitivity is liable to vary with object location, mount position and seeing conditions.  Achieving optimum control requires a fair amount of trial and error and, whilst that is of course an essential keystone of the scientific method, when you're out in the cold and dark tweeking your guide settings it can at times feel much more like pot luck!

Chris

Sorry, didn't mean to fuel a debate, was just being a little "flippant" when describing it as a dark art! I was fully intending to use PHD rather than black magic to guide my scope.... 

It just appears daunting to someone new to the concept and technique.