Starting out in astrophotography - which way to go?

[Alien 13]

As said in a number of the previous posts a DSLR with the right optics (very fast scope/camera lenses) is still a very good combination and idealy suited for the more widefield type shots the real downside is cost if you start using exotic lenses then the CCD with a simpler scope could work out a lot cheaper.

Alan

[Snaxmuppet]

Oh dear! Now I am in trouble.

Started looking at CCDs

Now the 6 million dollar question... spend less on the mount, perhaps a HEQ5 instead of the EQ6, save by not getting the 500D modded and put that money towards a secondhand mono CCD with filter wheel?

There is one for sale on astro buy and sell... a Atik 314+ with EFW2 (no filters) for £1000.

So, EQ6 and modding the 500D or HEQ5 and secondhand CCD and filter wheel?

The CCD will cost a bit more but not a great extra in the scale of what I am looking to spend.

Heck... the wife will kill me .... I had better stop looking for now or else I will be signing up for a Takahashi 85 instead of the SW 80ED!!! Well you can't take it with you!

Are you saying that that "particular" combo won't work together or that in general some combos won't work and I need to ensure that do?

[DaveS]

For camera control I'm going to suggest Astro Photographer's Tool as an alternative to BYEOS, the trial version is free and does most of what you'll want, but will nag you to buy the full version (£12 I think). It will happily sync with PHD2 for guiding and will dither the guiding between exposures, vital for controlling noise with a DSLR.

[wxsatuser]

Your up to a Tak already..........sell the wife now.

[Davey-T]

Some scopes are sold as "Astrographs" meaning they're designed specifically for astro' photography and don't lend themselves to visual Tak85 could be one of these. ED80 is both but you may need to buy  a field flattener to get round stars to the edge of the image.

I use an Atik 314L+ on my 10" SCT at f/10 to image small stuff like say the Eskimo nebula but if I aim at M31  I only get the core.

If you put the ED80 (a great scope for the money) spec' into Stellarium and  several different cameras you can see what tatgets are achievable and how big they appear on the image.

Dave

[Psychobilly]

With decent polar alignment and working at short focal lengths  I would shoot  unguided 4 min subs at 50mm and 2min subs at 200mm

Peter...

[style121]

Please would you explain to me how that works Psychobilly. How does having perfect polar alignment compensate for the rotation of the earth? If I was taking a photo of Polaris then I understand it wouldn't move and a long exposure is possible, but surely unguided photos still mean the stars are going to move in your field of view if you're slightly off centre with the pole. Really confused. Even at 200mm I can only 2 seconds before trailing. But obviously that's just on a regular tripod.

My mount is an HEQ5, with manual controls, no Synscan or GOTO. So how does the mount track without any software to guide it? I'm missing something I know, and I hope it's not brain matter...

[Stu]

I assume Peter means with the mount just tracking sidereal rate in RA using a motor on the RA axis.

This is unguided, ie there are no corrections going to either RA or Dec so the accuracy depends solely on the polar alignment, and the tracking rate which will probably have some form of periodic error

[Snaxmuppet]

Doesn't your HEQ5 have sidereal tracking?

[michaelmorris]

I'd second Peter's suggestions regarding starting off unguided with short focal length camera lenses.  Astrophotography is pretty involved subject and I would ease yourself in slowly.  From my (limited) experience, a good sense of humour, OCD and endless patience are all good characteristics of an astrophotographer.

You won't need fancy lenses (although they do help).  A fast 50 mm (the f1.8 nifty-fifty stopped down to f 3.5 or 4) is a great lens to start with.  On a half decent mount you should be able to get 4 to 5 minute subs.  You should be able to get some lovely whole constellation shots.

You could then progress up to shooting unguided at 200mm with 2 to 3 minute subs. 

You could then get one of your 500Ds astro-modified with a Baader filter replacement so that you can still use it for terrestrial photography.

Then add a small auto-guiding rig and maybe a Hutech IDAS LP" light pollution filter and you can stretch exposure lengths up to possibly as long as 10 minutes.

Lastly, add a short focal length refractor with focal reducer/flattener and you have an excellent imaging rig that you have slowly built up and your skill will have grown with the rig.

All this kit would work great with a CCD if you then chose to go down that route. 

The modified DSLR would still be great as a terrestrial camera or as a more portable astro-camera.

I hope this helps.

[style121]

Doesn't your HEQ5 have sidereal tracking?

I imagine it does. On the manual controls it's got X2 x8 and x16 speed control

[Uranium235]

I can agree that some level of OCD is required.... even bordering on pathological in your approach to how its set up.

But yes.... mount, mount, mount.... its all about the mount!

If youre set on using the DSLR still, use lenes at first as they will offer the fast focal ratio that a DSLR requires, and the shorter focal length means you can get away with murder on your tracking - as once you bung a telescope on there, autoguiding becomes a must-have.

However, CCD's offer a massive leap forward in sensitivity and noise levels. But as again mentioned previously, you have to match the right focal length to the right pixel size (eg: big pixels + short FL = blocky stars). In the case of an Atik 314L+, I personally wouldnt go below 380mm (for an 80mm frac, that would translate as f4.75, 3.5" p/p resolution).

Read long and hard before choosing a CCD, study FOV calculators - this one is probably the most used:

http://www.12dstring.me.uk/fov.htm

[ollypenrice]

Needless to say, since I'm a CCD buff, I'd be tempted by the 314L. However, the electric wheel, though excellent, is a very costly bit of kit belonging in the 'luxury' class since a cheap manual one will work fine.

I think you'd get better picures with a CCD and have more workable nights since you can do Ha in the moonlight. Ha is very slow under a Bayer matrix. LRGB is the fastest of all imaging systems.

Olly

Edit, Regarding an earlier point, The Tak 85 is primarily an astrograph but it is an utterly stunning visual scope as well, and is out of this world for just 85mm.

[Snaxmuppet]

My copy of "Making Every Photon Count" arrived this morning from FLO so I'll speculate no more on which way I may go until I have read it.

You guys & gals are all a great help for someone starting out. Thanks again

[Tacobrahe]

There are many others who are more qualified, but as someone who has recently trodden the path into DSO imaging, I can give my personal view.

I bought 'Making Every Photon Count' by Steve Richards as well. This is a great book covering all aspects of hardware/technique/processing to get you started in the most pain free way possible. Along with this and advice on the forums/videos online I have realised a few truths:

- DSOs are faint and as such require long exposure times. You can stack lots and lots of small exposures, but ultimately it is a smaller number of longer ones which will save your sanity.

- This means the most important thing to consider in DSO imaging is how to keep your glass + sensor pointing at the right spot. This is all down to the mount.

- Once the mount is chosen, the rest is garnish to a certain extent and subject to personal preference. You want to make life as easy as possible when starting out, as there are so many factors which need addressing, that you want to make as many of them as easy as possible. Once you are comfortable with a general workflow to generate an image you are happy with, then you can start changing things.

- This means a shortish focal length instrument. People on the forums recommend a variety of scope types, the smaller refractors (a Skywatcher ED80 is the one I actually bought), and the 130/150PDS type Newtonian reflector.

You can image merrily with your existing DSLRs and attach them directly to the scope.

Take your time and read as much as you can before committing funds. It can be an expensive past time, and it is better to get it right more often than not.

For what it is worth, if it were my £2000 and I was starting out, I would buy an AZ-EQ6 GT mount and the Evostar ED80 and a decent T-Ring (Baader one) and then have some change left over for the various sundries (batteries/adpators/software/guide scope/guide cam/dovetails....)

Matt

I bought a AVX mount which came with a 6" refractor, a nextstar autoguider, and a astronomix LP filter for less than $2000.

[Snaxmuppet]

OK guys and gals... I have read "Making Every Photon Count" from cover to cover... some bits twice already

I think I am coming to some conclusions that I am comfy with now thanks to that book and all of the help and advice I have received here.

I really like the phased approach mentioned by michaelmorris. It means that I can build my kit as I build my skills and confidence and it also means that I don't buy a whole load of kit that I would then have to sell should I find that I don't want to continue with the hobby in that way. I will always be interested in astronomy but astrophotography takes it all to another level of commitment and I want to be sure it is for me before I throw cash at it.

I think that it is clear that whatever level of observing I do that a good mount will always pay dividends and without a tracking mount I cannot even start exploring AP. So I have decided that stage 1 is to get a good mount, to set it up unguided with the dSLR and lenses I have already (even though they are not ideal) and get out there with a simple setup. Let's face it... if I don't like doing that then I certainly won't want to do it with a scope and guided setup will I.

The issue for me now then is which mount?

I like the AZ EQ6 (I have another thread just asking about the mounts).

[lensman57]

OK guys and gals... I have read "Making Every Photon Count" from cover to cover... some bits twice already

I think I am coming to some conclusions that I am comfy with now thanks to that book and all of the help and advice I have received here.

I really like the phased approach mentioned by michaelmorris. It means that I can build my kit as I build my skills and confidence and it also means that I don't buy a whole load of kit that I would then have to sell should I find that I don't want to continue with the hobby in that way. I will always be interested in astronomy but astrophotography takes it all to another level of commitment and I want to be sure it is for me before I throw cash at it.

I think that it is clear that whatever level of observing I do that a good mount will always pay dividends and without a tracking mount I cannot even start exploring AP. So I have decided that stage 1 is to get a good mount, to set it up unguided with the dSLR and lenses I have already (even though they are not ideal) and get out there with a simple setup. Let's face it... if I don't like doing that then I certainly won't want to do it with a scope and guided setup will I.

The issue for me now then is which mount?

I like the AZ EQ6 (I have another thread just asking about the mounts).

AZEQ6 is a great mount and IMHO it is the star of the Synta mounts. One point to consider is that it is not a very portable mount if you have set up from scratch in the back garden like a lot of us do.

A.G

[Snaxmuppet]

AZEQ6 is a great mount and IMHO it is the star of the Synta mounts. One point to consider is that it is not a very portable mount if you have set up from scratch in the back garden like a lot of us do.

A.G

I think I need to get a feel for just how "not very portable" it is. I will always have to set up the mount from scratch. Mostly it will be after driving to my viewing site as my garden is not at all suitable with houses close and very little sky not to mention a lot of LP.

So I will always be travelling with it and setting up from scratch every time I go out.

[lensman57]

I think I need to get a feel for just how "not very portable" it is. I will always have to set up the mount from scratch. Mostly it will be after driving to my viewing site as my garden is not at all suitable with houses close and very little sky not to mention a lot of LP.

So I will always be travelling with it and setting up from scratch every time I go out.

This is something to consider as a lot of the recommendations are on the assumption that the mount is permanently set up in an obsy or on a pier. I have been off work for two months due to back pain and other health issues and I couldn't even attempt to move the HEQ5 let alone an AZEQ6 even if I took all the weights off. Best if you could drop in to a local show room ( do these exist any longer ? ) and have a feel your self.

A.G

[Shelster1973]

Snax, FLO is just down the other end of the A38, so a 40 odd min drive.

May be worth heading down there to see what they have and also use the great advise they can offer too.....that is assuming they let you visit there.

[lensman57]

Snax, FLO is just down the other end of the A38, so a 40 odd min drive.

May be worth heading down there to see what they have and also use the great advise they can offer too.....that is assuming they let you visit there.

Good idea.

A.G

[Psychobilly]

Sorry late back to the thread but others have filled in the missing bits ...

So yes Sidereal tracking is enabled after Polar aligning... I skip the alignment stage and start it in the setup menu...

IIRC You need to contact FLO and arrange a visit rather than just  "turning up" ...

Peter...

[Snaxmuppet]

Thx. I'll drop them an email later today

[Snaxmuppet]

So, after me pestering many of you here (sorry and thank you!), I have finally decided what kit to get:

• Skywatcher Evostar 80ED DS-Pro
• AZ EQ5 GT Mount
• Field flatter/0.85x reducer (to f/6.37)
• T-Mount and adapter for Canon dSLR
• I will be getting my Canon 500D modded and use that initially

I will use this set up for visual observing and unguided imaging. Once I feel I have made some progress, enough to move on, my next step will be auto-guiding, plate solving and auto-focusing.

Initially I shall do everything with the laptop connected, even when visual observing. That way I will get to know some of the software and get used to setting up etc.

I'll be using the following software initially:

• EQMOD for mount control
• Cartes du Ciel for planetarium and goto functions
• BackyardEOS for focusing and image collection
• Deep Sky Stacker
• Photoshop CC
• AstroTortilla for plate solving (later)
• PHD2 for guiding (later)

I will probably change some of this software as I get more experienced.

That should keep me busy for a while!!!!!

I hope to be ordering  the hardware from First Light Optics this week.

Once again, thanks everyone, especially to Barry Wilson who put up with my questioning for 2 hours when I visited him last week. I am sure I will have questions setting this little lot up

[Peje]

Can anyone give me some more information "Making every photon count"; does this cover lunar or planetary photography also?