A Fully Automated Imaging Observatory - WIP

[GCG-Observatory]

I think half the fun is finding technical solutions to solving issues that help  you either automate or work from the comfort of your house or warm room. You can always tinker about to a certain extent on cloudy nights or during any day if you have the time, so you are not wasting the few and far between clear nights with configuration.

[steppenwolf]

14 hours ago, Marvin Jenkins said:

The ‘thing’ that is bothering me reading this thread is the utter reliance on software and computer compatibility. Now I realise that if you want a remote obs then computers have to be running things. Here come the tough bit...

How many clear nights have been wasted trying to get systems to ‘integrate’, domes to aligned, mounts to track, etc.

I am at present a visual observer with small kit, and I have had diddly since October 9th without missing an opportunity. Frankly with this amount of opportunity, adding all that infrastructure seems restrictive as I would have no images to process.

I can see what you are all trying to achieve and it is a thing of wonder. But with modern weather and system errors and incompatibility I am wondering if it is something along the lines of the law of diminishing returns.

I see so many posts with software issue this, problem using version that, I wonder where the astronomer ends and the IT tech begins.

All this from a guy that wants to do astrophotography sometime in the future.

You make a very valid point! I ran my observatory in manual mode for 10 years and had great fun capturing images and then processing them but then I retired and wanted a 'project'!!

That project was to make the observatory completely remotely controlled and I have been very successful in that aim BUT, reliance on software does have its issues but this is true as soon as you get into imaging per se and is not associated with just remote operation because as soon as you start autoguiding - and you WILL start autoguiding (!) - out comes the PC!

Don't tell anyone but I lost numerous nights with an autofocus issue earlier this year that turned out to be a tick in a box that should have been left unticked and to this day I have no idea how or why the box became ticked in the first place .....

PCs and software for deep sky imaging are a necessary evil and once you have made that choice to join the dark side you may as well embrace the whole kit and caboodle .....

15 hours ago, Marvin Jenkins said:

By the way I bought the bought the book. ‘Thank you Steve’ and I was most surprised by your personal reply to me, which I did not expect.

My pleasure, it is something I started doing when I thought I might sell a few tens of the book and I just can't let go of the personal touch!

[steppenwolf]

4 hours ago, dannybgoode said:

Most ‘technical’ hobbies these days have a computerised route that takes it outside of the realms of the core hobby. Your example of photography is one as is amateur radio. How far down that route you wish to go is up to you. 

This is very true - I couldn't wait to find a way of attaching my Commodore PET to my transceiver when I did amateur radio, I did the same with my kit car (of course you need to change the fuelling and ignition while the car is moving) and the same was true of my original EOS 300D imaging camera and even more recently my whole observatory. Even my analogue synthesizer has found some advantages to connection to a computer - will it never end?

[spillage]

5 hours ago, skybadger said:

Current contenders are Nina, voyager , ccdciel  and another from Moravian.

Although I am only partially automated (not roof control) I do have mention that N.I.N.A is really worth a look. Its free and works very much like sgpro in lots of ways but also better in others. 

I think when you consider the opportunity to have your gear up and running in minutes makes up for the time lost trying to fix issues.  I like the fact that I can be set up running if there is a gap in the clouds and back under cover in minutes if the clouds come back.

Allot of the software out there if free but has great support to get you through the rough patches. I guess you have to be happy to fiddle about with stuff in the first place. I would rather build something or at least have a go before going out spending the money on a pre-built working solution. 

[sloz1664]

Talking of computer issues and associated problems. I was merrily plodding along, minding my own business, and happy in the thought I had a trouble free system.... When SGPro announced it was NOT supporting Win 7 in the New Year. This meant that I would have to upgrade to Window 10. I'm not afraid of the operating system, far from it, I have it installed on three machines already. It's the fact is it "astronomy ready" I have built a fair few Arduino projects that automate a fair bit of my equipment and an old filterwheel that has never let me down. All of which I need to work but don't know they are Win 10 compliant. So in a moment of "He who dares" I compiled a disc image of my Win 7 machine and Loaded Win 10........ An hour or so later I had a fully functional Win 10 machine, fully compliant with my astro gear. The only casualty was my old Philips SNC900NC webcam I used to monitor the Observatory. Well pleased.

Steve

 

 

[martin_h]

14 minutes ago, sloz1664 said:

Talking of computer issues and associated problems. I was merrily plodding along, minding my own business, and happy in the thought I had a trouble free system.... When SGPro announced it was NOT supporting Win 7 in the New Year. This meant that I would have to upgrade to Window 10. I'm not afraid of the operating system, far from it, I have it installed on three machines already. It's the fact is it "astronomy ready" I have built a fair few Arduino projects that automate a fair bit of my equipment and an old filterwheel that has never let me down. All of which I need to work but don't know they are Win 10 compliant. So in a moment of "He who dares" I compiled a disc image of my Win 7 machine and Loaded Win 10........ An hour or so later I had a fully functional Win 10 machine, fully compliant with my astro gear. The only casualty was my old Philips SNC900NC webcam I used to monitor the Observatory. Well pleased.

Steve

 

 

I did the same a couple of weeks ago with no problems at all.

[geoflewis]

21 minutes ago, sloz1664 said:

Talking of computer issues and associated problems. I was merrily plodding along, minding my own business, and happy in the thought I had a trouble free system.... When SGPro announced it was NOT supporting Win 7 in the New Year. This meant that I would have to upgrade to Window 10. I'm not afraid of the operating system, far from it, I have it installed on three machines already. It's the fact is it "astronomy ready" I have built a fair few Arduino projects that automate a fair bit of my equipment and an old filterwheel that has never let me down. All of which I need to work but don't know they are Win 10 compliant. So in a moment of "He who dares" I compiled a disc image of my Win 7 machine and Loaded Win 10........ An hour or so later I had a fully functional Win 10 machine, fully compliant with my astro gear. The only casualty was my old Philips SNC900NC webcam I used to monitor the Observatory. Well pleased.

Steve

 

 

OMG I hadn't picked up on this SGP/Win 7 announcement, so I just checked it out.

I find computers (other than just using them) a complete nightmare, not made any better in that the brand new £1300 Win 10 pro, gaming spec laptop that I just bought for home use and astro processing was faulty and I've only just received the replacement last week after many hours of tech support over a few weeks, which confirmed that the original was a dud...!! As I'd purchased 3 years premium tech support (turned out to be such a good decision) with the laptop, I even got them to remotely set up the replacement laptop to be sure that it wasn't me that f**ked up the original...!! The prospect of me having to upgrade my old observatory laptop's Win7 to Win10 terrifies me - I'm sure it's a piece of cake for you techy folks, but for me this is is a disaster waiting to happen.....😱.

Steve, I note that you compiled a disc image of your Win 7 machine before loading Win 10, so is that an absolute requirement, or were you just taking extra precautions - I have no idea how to do that, not even sure I understand what it is.... 🙄.

What happens if I do nothing and just continue with Win 7?

A very anxious Geof 😰

 

 

[sloz1664]

29 minutes ago, geoflewis said:

OMG I hadn't picked up on this SGP/Win 7 announcement, so I just checked it out.

I find computers (other than just using them) a complete nightmare, not made any better in that the brand new £1300 Win 10 pro, gaming spec laptop that I just bought for home use and astro processing was faulty and I've only just received the replacement last week after many hours of tech support over a few weeks, which confirmed that the original was a dud...!! As I'd purchased 3 years premium tech support (turned out to be such a good decision) with the laptop, I even got them to remotely set up the replacement laptop to be sure that it wasn't me that f**ked up the original...!! The prospect of me having to upgrade my old observatory laptop's Win7 to Win10 terrifies me - I'm sure it's a piece of cake for you techy folks, but for me this is is a disaster waiting to happen.....😱.

Steve, I note that you compiled a disc image of your Win 7 machine before loading Win 10, so is that an absolute requirement, or were you just taking extra precautions - I have no idea how to do that, not even sure I understand what it is.... 🙄.

What happens if I do nothing and just continue with Win 7?

A very anxious Geof 😰

 

 

Hi Geoff,

The disc image was the backup in case Windows 10 didn't work for my needs. I'd then restore the image backup and have my old Win 7 machine as it was previously. I downloaded the FREE version of Amomi Backupper Standard and loaded the disc image onto an external HDD. My disc image was 178 GB.

Steve

[spillage]

I think sgp will continue to work and install but any issues from future updates will not be supported and updates will be aimed towards win 10.

[geoflewis]

1 hour ago, sloz1664 said:

Hi Geoff,

The disc image was the backup in case Windows 10 didn't work for my needs. I'd then restore the image backup and have my old Win 7 machine as it was previously. I downloaded the FREE version of Amomi Backupper Standard and loaded the disc image onto an external HDD. My disc image was 178 GB.

Steve

 

1 hour ago, spillage said:

I think sgp will continue to work and install but any issues from future updates will not be supported and updates will be aimed towards win 10.

Thanks Steve and @spillage, I think I’m going to leave it alone and see what happens. If SGP stops working then I’ll reconsider my options. I’m still on SGP 2 BTW, as it does everything that I need. I’m very much from the ‘if it ain’t broke don’t tix it...’ school. If I need to upgrade to Win 10, I’ll either get someone to do that for me, or buy another refurbished Win 10 laptop, from Morgan Computers, or somewhere like that, which is where the current Obs laptop came from last year.

Cheers, Geof

[spillage]

Or download win 10 onto a pen drive purchase another hard drive and install win 10 on the new hard drive using your win 7 key. At least then you can go back to win 7 in minutes if needed.

[geoflewis]

1 minute ago, spillage said:

Or download win 10 onto a pen drive purchase another hard drive and install win 10 on the new hard drive using your win 7 key. At least then you can go back to win 7 in minutes if needed.

Thanks Mark, but I don't think you understood my original post - I can see that what you wrote was all English, but it might as well have been Martian.... I haven't a clue what that meant, sorry 🙄

Geof

[spillage]

If you are able to remove the old hard drive then its really not that bad and will save you a small sum.

You can download windows 10 from here. Includes instructions on the page.

Once this has been done its just a case of change the existing hard drive for a new empty one and installing you new copy of windows 10 onto it. 

It will ask you to register you new copy of windows and your existing computer will have the old windows key sticker attached. If its a laptop it either on the bottom or remove the battery and it can normally be found there.

Windows 10 will be installed and you can keep the old hard drive with windows 7 on just in case you really hate 10.

[geoflewis]

10 minutes ago, spillage said:

If you are able to remove the old hard drive

Thanks Mark,

I really appreciate your advice, but really I wouldn't know where to start; I know absolutely zip about this technology other than having to use it and even then I'm something of a philistine...

Cheers, Geof

[martin_h]

A very good reason for automation happened to me last night. I started my imaging run at 20.00 hrs and went to bed at 22.00 hrs, at 23.00 hrs it clouded over (typical!), the observatory shut down and parked the scope, closed the roof etc, then sat there in anticipation until 03.00 hrs when it cleared and everything fired up and continued to image untill 05.30 when the run finished.

[spillage]

46 minutes ago, martin_h said:

A very good reason for automation happened to me last night

I can only dream of getting to this point. 

[Gina]

Me too but working towards it...  Slowly..

[Marvin Jenkins]

9 hours ago, martin_h said:

A very good reason for automation happened to me last night. I started my imaging run at 20.00 hrs and went to bed at 22.00 hrs, at 23.00 hrs it clouded over (typical!), the observatory shut down and parked the scope, closed the roof etc, then sat there in anticipation until 03.00 hrs when it cleared and everything fired up and continued to image untill 05.30 when the run finished.

What did you capture? Nice, three and a half hours of automated imaging on a challenging night most imagers would have abandoned. I look forward to seeing the end result. Please post, I will look out for your images.

[sloz1664]

11 hours ago, martin_h said:

A very good reason for automation happened to me last night. I started my imaging run at 20.00 hrs and went to bed at 22.00 hrs, at 23.00 hrs it clouded over (typical!), the observatory shut down and parked the scope, closed the roof etc, then sat there in anticipation until 03.00 hrs when it cleared and everything fired up and continued to image untill 05.30 when the run finished.

I'm still edging towards full automation, Martin. Just have manage the dome shutter to realise the dream. Reading your post has made me so eager to complete my mission. Really great to see yours working really well, mate.

Steve

[GCG-Observatory]

On 04/12/2019 at 10:57, martin_h said:

A very good reason for automation happened to me last night. I started my imaging run at 20.00 hrs and went to bed at 22.00 hrs, at 23.00 hrs it clouded over (typical!), the observatory shut down and parked the scope, closed the roof etc, then sat there in anticipation until 03.00 hrs when it cleared and everything fired up and continued to image untill 05.30 when the run finished.

So are you automating with SGPro?

[martin_h]

18 hours ago, GCG-Observatory said:

So are you automating with SGPro?

Yes I am

[Gina]

My automation uses KStars/Ekos/INDI with several RPi units for remote operation, or it will when it's all finished.

[GCG-Observatory]

On 07/12/2019 at 19:13, martin_h said:

Yes I am

Did you find it difficult to configure and get everything set up?

[martin_h]

6 hours ago, GCG-Observatory said:

Did you find it difficult to configure and get everything set up?

Not at all, it takes a bit of trial and error to tweek it to individual systems, autofocus, meridian flip etc but fairly straightforward.

[NEM]

On 03/12/2019 at 10:39, sloz1664 said:

The only casualty was my old Philips SNC900NC webcam I used to monitor the Observatory.

I have an SPC900NC working correctly on Win10.  Search the Philips web site for SPC900NC_00_SW7_ENG.exe.