A Fully Automated Imaging Observatory - WIP

[sloz1664]

Well Steve after your two week apprenticeship you are now classed as an IT expert

I agree Win 7 for me, as I have lived and breathed this software after the disastrous Windows Vista. Although I'm amiable with Win 10, like yourself, the thought of transferring over to it fills me with dread.

Glad to see you have finally got it up and running. Now you need another hard drive with a backup of a backup of a backup of the backup of a backup.......you get my drift...

Steve

[Scott]

Did you try turning it off and on again?
That's about the extent of my IT expertise

[barkis]

19 minutes ago, Scott said:

Did you try turning it off and on again?
That's about the extent of my IT expertise

And usually the first instruction most IT. Advisors give too. When you tell them you've already tried that, they will insist you try again.

[steppenwolf]

On 12/05/2019 at 15:09, barkis said:

It is inevitable that putting together such a varied, and intricate system is going to throw up a gremlin or two Steve. 

... and thus is is proven! I have a PC rebuild in the pipeline so I will get there but currently I am back on the old XP machine which is less than ideal! Thanks, Ron.

On 12/05/2019 at 16:57, hughgilhespie said:

I usually upgrade my Windows 10 computers to Windows 7.

I see what you did there and I am with you!

On 12/05/2019 at 17:36, Jkulin said:

I am very surprised at people not wanting to upgrade to Windows 10, it is beautifully stable, reliable and has never crashed any of our business machines, going back in time to Windows 7 is a derogatory step for upgrades and support.

Yes, I've heard that point of view as well but it hasn't been my experience ......

[steppenwolf]

On 12/05/2019 at 18:48, sloz1664 said:

Well Steve after your two week apprenticeship you are now classed as an IT expert

Rather embarrassingly, in an earlier life I used to do some IT for a living but I just scrape by these days when it comes to PCs!

On 12/05/2019 at 18:57, Scott said:

Did you try turning it off and on again?
That's about the extent of my IT expertise

I'm not that much ahead of you then, Scott ......

 

[steppenwolf]

Additional Note 27 - Remote Access issue with TeamViewer and a solution

All this remote testing of my upgraded observatory PC has apparently given TeamViewer another excuse (THIS IS THE FOURTH TIME!!) to accuse me of using their software in a 'Commercial Environment' despite me having submitted a sworn testament in writing confirming that this is not the case!! They advertise and offer a free service for personal use on one hand and remove it on the other ....... I have decided to find another solution and seem to have a viable method currently under test:-

Remote Desktop

I am using Remote Desktop for accessing the observatory PC and frankly, I prefer the way the small display on the observatory opens up into a much bigger and better display on my desktop PC at home. However, there is no 'Wake on Lan' facility and you can't turn the remote PC off after an imaging session so:-

SolarWinds Wake on Lan

This rather nice free application does just what it says it will do and seems to work perfectly and:-

VBScript to close Remote PC

To close the remote PC during a remote session, it is necessary to run a small VBScript and this too works perfectly - I just have it as a shortcut on my observatory PC desktop

strCmd = "shutdown -s -t 0 -f"
set objShell = CreateObject("WScript.Shell")
objShell.Run strCmd

One problem down, several to go 😎

[skybadger]

Hi Steve. Is the wake on lan thing down to your mic not supporting it ?. I'm surprised at that if it's a recent PC. 

Also, if you are logged in to a remote session, why do you need a script to shut the PC down ? I set mine to low power mode after 20mins and run from an ssd. It's as if it was never off..

 

Mike

 

[steppenwolf]

On 14/05/2019 at 10:09, skybadger said:

Hi Steve. Is the wake on lan thing down to your mic not supporting it ?. I'm surprised at that if it's a recent PC. 

I have not found a WOL option in Remote Desktop or as part of the Windows OS - have I missed something?

On 14/05/2019 at 10:09, skybadger said:

Also, if you are logged in to a remote session, why do you need a script to shut the PC down ? I set mine to low power mode after 20mins and run from an ssd. It's as if it was never off..

Historically, I have had issues with my XP PC that were always resolved when I started from a clean slate so I have just got into the habit of turning it all off remotely at the end of a session so that I get a fresh boot at the start of the next session. I like the idea of the low power and SSD solution but the potential replacement PC doesn't have an SSD drive and I am trying to keep the costs down as a couple of years ago I placed a no more astronomy expenditure order on myself so that I could use any available funds elsewhere!

[Yawning Angel]

You should find that a Win10 box can be correctly powered off from an RDP session. It still doesn't do WoL natively, but the solarwinds solution is quite robust. There are also fully featured Microsoft RDP client apps on both iOS and Android, along with WoL apps, so you can manage the process from a phone or tablet

As a side project, it might be worth considering virtualizing the old XP box and running it on fresh hardware - it then becomes a simple thing to backup and restore, along with being pretty hardware agnostic

[Gina]

I've had that problem with TeamViewer too.  Pity - it was so convenient.  But it pushed me into doing things other ways and now I use the Raspberry Pi for remote imaging and control together with KStars/Ekos/INDI.

[hughgilhespie]

Steve,

When I use Windows RDP I shut down the remote machine by pressing the Alt + F4 keys, then selecting shut-down from the options given. Works a treat!

Regards, Hugh

[hughgilhespie]

Also, I forgot to say that the free program, WakeOnLan from Aquila Technology works very well     https://wol.aquilatech.com/      . You need the MAC address of the remote machine and you have to make sure that WOL is enabled on the remote - loads of U-Tube vids to help here.

 

Regards, Hugh

[skybadger]

On my obbo PC. which is a vanilla 2nd hand dell running w10, the nic natively supports wake on lan. It's set as an option on driver settings. That's not to say you don't need a client on top of that too...

I prefer to keep it running in sleep/low power just to keep it warm and dry. 

[steppenwolf]

On 14/05/2019 at 19:20, hughgilhespie said:

When I use Windows RDP I shut down the remote machine by pressing the Alt + F4 keys, then selecting shut-down from the options given. Works a treat!

Thanks, Hugh I have tested this on my old XP PC and it works a treat for me too - I really like this option.

On 14/05/2019 at 19:26, hughgilhespie said:

Also, I forgot to say that the free program, WakeOnLan from Aquila Technology works very well     https://wol.aquilatech.com/    

Thanks also for this link

On 15/05/2019 at 06:48, skybadger said:

On my obbo PC. which is a vanilla 2nd hand dell running w10, the nic natively supports wake on lan. It's set as an option on driver settings.

Yes, even my old XP PC has this set ready to rock and roll reliably.

The Win 7 PC has been sent off for diagnosis/repair so all current testing is back on the XP machine but it is such a relief to be free of TeamViewer and to have a reliable remote control system under my sole control.

[steppenwolf]

I really should have updated this earlier but I am pleased to report that the problem with the new PC turned out to be a faulty RAM module which has been replaced and I now have a fully functional system that is as stable as a stable thing on solid ground!! 👍

[skybadger]

On 30/03/2015 at 22:11, steppenwolf said:

POSTED BY GCG-OBSERVATORY

I collected the following information from the CCD Commander website which would seem to indicate that the requirement for re-opening the dome and re-starting the imaging session without user intervention is met with this software. I will need to run another simulation and will use the method you suggested for changing the simulation conditions - so thanks for that! Here's the article and a screenshot of the Weather Monitoring set-up:-

When the Cloud Sensor is coupled to CCD Commander, the Cloud Monitor starts automatically in the background when you push the Start Action button. As soon as CCD Commander detects one of the non-clear conditions selected it will pause your Action List - parking the mount if desired. In addition you can select independantly the conditions under which CCD Commander should close your dome to protect your equipment.

After the skies clear for the specified period of time, CCD Commander will automatically open the dome (if it was closed), unpark the mount and bring it back to the original target (if it was parked) and resume the action list at the next action in the list!

This functionality is perfect for survey work and to prevent taking images of Earth-based clouds!

Tried installing CCD Commander, but it seems to rely on an outdated and apparently unavailable piece of software called CCDSoft? 

Anyone know of a way to get it to work?

I believe sgpro does that too, using the observing conditions and safety monitor. Would that be an alternative ?

 

[jimjam11]

1 hour ago, skybadger said:

I believe sgpro does that too, using the observing conditions and safety monitor. Would that be an alternative ?

 

It does and the later beta releases include safety resumption rather than it aborting the sequence.

[steppenwolf]

3 hours ago, GCG-Observatory said:

Tried installing CCD Commander, but it seems to rely on an outdated and apparently unavailable piece of software called CCDSoft? 

Anyone know of a way to get it to work?

CCD Commander, great though it is, is only an 'orchestrator' for controlling other external software. CCDSoft and MaxIm DL are the two image capture programs that are supported. In addition, there are several other external programs that complete the system.

If you don't want to use MaxIm DL as I do, I would suggest that SG Pro would be a good alternative as suggested by @skybadger. I DIDN'T want to use SG Pro because I am an existing MaxIm DL user so CCD Commander was music to my ears! SG Pro does not rely on external software for capturing the images although it does require other external software for some functions like autoguiding.

[GCG-Observatory]

1 minute ago, steppenwolf said:

CCD Commander, great though it is, is only an 'orchestrator' for controlling other external software. CCDSoft and MaxIm DL are the two image capture programs that are supported. In addition, there are several other external programs that complete the system.

If you don't want to use MaxIm DL as I do, I would suggest that SG Pro would be a good alternative as suggested by @skybadger. I DIDN'T want to use SG Pro because I am an existing MaxIm DL user so CCD Commander was music to my ears! SG Pro does not rely on external software for capturing the images although it does require other external software for some functions like autoguiding.

Yeah the problem is, I cant even get CCD Commander to run, it seems to need CCDSoft to even run

[steppenwolf]

33 minutes ago, GCG-Observatory said:

Yeah the problem is, I cant even get CCD Commander to run, it seems to need CCDSoft to even run

I don't think that is the problem as you need to be able to run it to then select CCDSoft! I don't have CCDSoft by the way. Does literally nothing happen when you run th software?

[Marvin Jenkins]

For fear of anyone on this thread thinking I am picking a fight, or dising anyone’s efforts in Astro photography, I can clearly say I am not.

I am quite new to all this Astro stuff but not new to photography. I came up in the 35mm film era which is a pain as I became that age group that embraced computers or got left behind and I am in the second group.

By the way I bought the bought the book. ‘Thank you Steve’ and I was most surprised by your personal reply to me, which I did not expect.

The ‘thing’ that is bothering me reading this thread is the utter reliance on software and computer compatibility. Now I realise that if you want a remote obs then computers have to be running things. Here come the tough bit...

How many clear nights have been wasted trying to get systems to ‘integrate’, domes to aligned, mounts to track, etc.

I am at present a visual observer with small kit, and I have had diddly since October 9th without missing an opportunity. Frankly with this amount of opportunity, adding all that infrastructure seems restrictive as I would have no images to process.

I can see what you are all trying to achieve and it is a thing of wonder. But with modern weather and system errors and incompatibility I am wondering if it is something along the lines of the law of diminishing returns.

I see so many posts with software issue this, problem using version that, I wonder where the astronomer ends and the IT tech begins.

All this from a guy that wants to do astrophotography sometime in the future.

Marv

 

[martin_h]

Marvin Jenkins..

I too run a remote Observatory using a different software option to Steve but with a lot of the same hardware and the main advantage of this is to take advantage of every clear hour of the night sky. My software is very stable now, and yes a few clear nights were used setting it all up, but not as many as packing kit up because of cloud cover only to find it clear an hour later!

[skybadger]

Hi Marvin.

I have the same problem. To avoid setup, teardown and freezing attendance to equipment, I bought an observatory.

But I still needed to attend the kit , move the dome etc and it uses mostly the same software and hardware you've already got: laptop, power, USB, imagers.

So the step is to automate - either just enough to keep imaging, or enough to close up when rain comes or do the entire startup and shutdown  shebang under its own steam because you are really only interested in the data...

There are always issues of stability, which is why some people won't move off windows7, there are issues of interoperability and complexity of configuration. When you come down to it, if you don't enjoy addressing all that and building the glue bits you need, it's going to either get too expensive or too hard. On the other hand, I enjoy motorising hardware, writing software and maybe, just maybe, the frustrations of only eventually getting it working. Gives me something to do on cloudy nights that will make my clear nights more productive. 

"Alexa, open the dome!"

"Sorry, Mike, I cannot comply, metcheck says it's going to rain later"

 

M

 

 

 

[skybadger]

PS I am an existing maxim user too, but it's expensive and I can buy the sum of the parts for cheaper at an integration cost to me of time . Might be more stable though. 

Current contenders are Nina, voyager , ccdciel  and another from Moravian. 

M

[dannybgoode]

@Marvin Jenkins the base astro imaging software is very stable now. If you just want to run an imaging sequence having manually set the kit up then it’s really pretty straightforward. 
 

Yes there’s a learning curve but it’s no steeper than that you have already overcome in becoming a visual astronomer. A few hours watching YouTube vids and reading the odd tutorial and you can get something like APT up and running and it’ll work night after night (I find APT more straightforward than SGP for this type of imaging session). 
 

When you enter the realms of full automation then things are a bit different as each setup is essentially bespoke and yes, an in-depth knowledge of how the software and hardware hangs together is required. Either that or you pay someone to do it for you but then you are less able to trouble shoot if something goes wrong. Of course once set up all those hours start paying back as you can image even when you’re fast asleep. 
 

Most ‘technical’ hobbies these days have a computerised route that takes it outside of the realms of the core hobby. Your example of photography is one as is amateur radio. How far down that route you wish to go is up to you. 
 

But certainly don’t be put off having a go at ‘manual’ imaging. I can now get my imaging rig set up and ready to take its first sequence in around half an hour and to switch to visual takes seconds if that’s what I decide to do (simply remove the camera and plop in the diagonal with eyeliner and refocus). It really isn’t too hard to do and is very rewarding when you start to get those first images.