Frac / dob / frac / dob / frac / dob.....

[Liquid360]

First I'd like to say that I'm new here and my advice has little worth. I understand the merits of going big. The benefits are obvious. That said I'm a HUGE believer in the importance of manageability. To me it trumps all other factors. I recently made the switch from a 10in SCT to a frac. Given I'm entering the world of AP, but even if I wasn't, I'm far happier with my frac than I ever was with my SCT.

[Jim Steele]

I'd say get both, a 4" frac on a az mount for grab and go, and a 8-12" dob for dso hunting...

Good luck with your choice

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

First I'd like to say that I'm new here and my advice has little worth. I understand the merits of going big. The benefits are obvious. That said I'm a HUGE believer in the importance of manageability. To me it trumps all other factors. I recently made the switch from a 10in SCT to a frac. Given I'm entering the world of AP, but even if I wasn't, I'm far happier with my frac than I ever was with my SCT.

A 10" SCT is really a beast. My 8" is much smaller and lighter (just 4.7 kg for the OTA). My kids could lift that easily (not that I let them ).

[orley]

I'm going to go off the path a touch here...if you've £2k to play with why not consider a 6" Istar anastigmat refractor? I've been fortunate enough to view Jupiter through one courtesy of John at Peak2Valley, a mesmerising sight. The detail and contrast blew might 100ED out of the water. Plus you'd have change for a HEQ5 or AVX (it was mounted on a VX when I used it).

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

I'm going to go off the path a touch here...if you've £2k to play with why not consider a 6" Istar anastigmat refractor? I've been fortunate enough to view Jupiter through one courtesy of John at Peak2Valley, a mesmerising sight. The detail and contrast blew might 100ED out of the water. Plus you'd have change for a HEQ5 or AVX (it was mounted on a VX when I used it).

If that is the F/12, it is 1800mm long and weighs in at 14.5 kg. I am sure it is excellent, but also unwieldy. The F/8 is 1200mm long and weighs 11.73 kg, better but still not a scope that would sit comfortably on my Vixen GP mount (which handles the C8 just fine). I had an "apo-killer 6" F/8 Newtonian (1/10th lambda mirror, 23% CO) which gave great views of Jupiter, comparable to 6" fracs I have looked through. The C8 is a bit better on the fine details, however, even if the contrast is a bit less snappy.

[John]

I have an Istar 6" F/12 achromat and, marvellous though it is, it's very challenging to mount properly. I found even an EQ6 was struggling and the tripod needed to get the eyepiece to a feasible height is massive in itself.

[swamp thing]

. That said I'm a HUGE believer in the importance of manageability. To me it trumps all other factors. 

How much does your mount weigh?

How long does it take to setup and start imaging with your rig?

interested to know just how manageable that lot is.

I do find it a bit funny when people with huge heavy mounts start talking about portability like its of paramount importance to them (pun intended  )

Not a dig BTW just a bit of fun

Have fun out there 

[Moonshane]

to me, portability is governed by one question.  "can I get it to where it needs to be to observe without breaking my back or the scope". If the answer is yes, then it's portable.

cooldown is an issue that affects this of course as are the sky conditions and if I have little time, or it is cloudy with gaps, or windy then I'll just choose a different scope to allow me to optimise the limited time I have.

[A McEwan]

Davesellars - I completely agree with this. The ED100 scopes are superb instruments and let you see a huge variety of objects. Also quite lightweight and cool-down quickly - ideal for short sessions/back-garden looks/cloud-dodging etc.

There are lots of good quality sturdy yet portable alt-az mounts available now, from the AZ-4 to the Skytee 2 and beyond. This would be a great starting point and would serve very usefully until the decision on the larger scope was made.

There are a lot of good reasons that seasoned observers tend to have at least two rigs: one small-medium refractor and one large Dobsonian/SCT. They complement each other and each can do things that the other can't.

Ant

[Liquid360]

Who better to speak on the merits of manageability than a guy with an imaging setup? [emoji6]

How much does your mount weigh?

How long does it take to setup and start imaging with your rig?

interested to know just how manageable that lot is.

I do find it a bit funny when people with huge heavy mounts start talking about portability like its of paramount importance to them (pun intended )

Not a dig BTW just a bit of fun

Have fun out there

[alfingido]

Get both

Look how good they look together, 12" Flextube Dob and ED80 DS Pro on an EQ5.......

Allan

[Dannae]

That is sooo colour co-ordinated Allan Appeals to my compulsive side.

Regards

Dannae

[Peter Drew]

Very nice. Which of the two looks the most portable? 

[orley]

If that is the F/12, it is 1800mm long and weighs in at 14.5 kg. I am sure it is excellent, but also unwieldy. The F/8 is 1200mm long and weighs 11.73 kg, better but still not a scope that would sit comfortably on my Vixen GP mount (which handles the C8 just fine). I had an "apo-killer 6" F/8 Newtonian (1/10th lambda mirror, 23% CO) which gave great views of Jupiter, comparable to 6" fracs I have looked through. The C8 is a bit better on the fine details, however, even if the contrast is a bit less snappy.

I believe it was the F8. Sat nicely on my AVX. Can understand it's not everyone's cuppa but still great fun!

[FenlandPaul]

Get both

Look how good they look together, 12" Flextube Dob and ED80 DS Pro on an EQ5.......

Allan

They do look lovely!!!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[rl]

It's strange actually, my 12" dob in many ways is much quicker to setup than my fracs. It is one trip down the garden with it on the sack truck, whereas the fracs are generally 3 or 4 with more assembly involved. Despite this there is some psychological block in my mind which means I more often use the fracs, and under my skies actually the difference is not as big as you might expect.

Totally agree with BigMakStutov....my most used scope is a 12" f/4 Newt Dobbie because it's all on wheels and lives in the garage, all cooled down ready to go. Literally 1 minute from opening the door to observing. Even the eyepieces live on the same trolley assembly.I've got several small refractors which can be set up on an altaz mount just as quickly but show less, or on an eq mount where you waste half an hour wiring it up and doing alignment, generally wondering why it's not working properly. Simplicity is the key to regular use. You don't need an equatorial for visual (though it is nice) which is probably why the 8" was not a success.

Regards to all, RL

[Saganite]

Hi Paul,

I am in agreement with Moonshane's first post on this topic, and almost all of my kit was purchased on the used market.

My ED100, 12" Lightbridge, and EQ6( the older black non-GOTO, but nevertheless good solid tracking mount) cost

less £1000 and were all in excellent condition. The Lightbridge, it is true, needed a bit of TLC, but new springs and knobs,

black paint on the struts, and a bit of adjustment, produced a very fine instrument.

Perhaps I was lucky, but my belief is that folk in this hobby/obsession look after their equipment and so long as you use

a dedicated Astronomical sight for your purchases, you should be ok.

There will be exceptions, and probably most will have a horror story to relate, but I have never had a single problem

with scopes, eyepieces, or anything else.

A 4" refractor on a permanent pier in the garden, and 12" grab and go Dobsonian.............Heaven!

[alfingido]

Perhaps I was lucky, but my belief is that folk in this hobby/obsession look after their equipment and so long as you use

a dedicated Astronomical sight for your purchases, you should be ok.

There will be exceptions, and probably most will have a horror story to relate, but I have never had a single problem

with scopes, eyepieces, or anything else.

A 4" refractor on a permanent pier in the garden, and 12" grab and go Dobsonian.............Heaven!

When I was looking for my latest setup, I read lots of for sale ads, most of them said the equipment was in mint condition, then went on to list a range of faults / damage, that "wouldnt affect viewing"!

In the end, I bought new, but I have bought 4 used ones in the past, the latest and most expensive was a Meade LX200 10", which ended up being a bit of a disappointment ( as did two of the others)

Best and most used I ever had was a Meade LX90 and after going through about 10 telescopes in between, I have ended up with another.

Allan

[Kef9]

Just to add my 2ps worth I have a 150 startravel frac and use it as my main scope. It can literally go from inside the house to outside for viewing in the space of seconds. I just pick the whole lot up on the mount, take it through my french doors and point it at the north star straight away when outside. If it wasn't like this I don't think I would ever use a telescope to be honest due to all the faffing around and the changeable weather. I don't bother with goto or any power supplies either.

Hence its fracs only for me but then I don't have any patience and would have nowhere to store a dob without having to wheel it around (or install some purpose built structure in my garden to store).

[FenlandPaul]

Just to add my 2ps worth I have a 150 startravel frac and use it as my main scope. It can literally go from inside the house to outside for viewing in the space of seconds. I just pick the whole lot up on the mount, take it through my french doors and point it at the north star straight away when outside. If it wasn't like this I don't think I would ever use a telescope to be honest due to all the faffing around and the changeable weather. I don't bother with goto or any power supplies either.

Hence its fracs only for me but then I don't have any patience and would have nowhere to store a dob without having to wheel it around (or install some purpose built structure in my garden to store).

That's very interesting. The StarTravel 150 was the one I'd had my eye on. May I ask what mount you use? How do you get on with lunar and planetary views? Interested to hear a real-world chromatic aberration assessment.

Paul

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Kef9]

Hi Pal

I thought I might as well take a photo of my setup so you can see for yourself (see below). I use a CG5 mount which is nice and sturdy.

Regarding planetary I have a C100ED for that although I don't use it as much now as I prefer the light gathering power of the Startravel !!!

Make no mistake the CA on this scope out of the box is bad but it can be managed. For one it has a special lens cap which comes is 2 parts. When you remove the inner cap to reduce the aperture you double the focal length to F10 should you desire which reduces CA but the image is somewhat dimmer as you would expect  (I never do this by the way).

My alternative is to use the Baader semi-apo filter which does a really good job of taking care of CA and doesn't distort the colour. Hence the CA is still noticeable but it doesn't bother me.

I got mine a good few years ago now for a steal at around £200 from the scopes n' skies bargain bucket. Its actually shorter than the C100ED (which is another mighty fine scope by the way!) and with these 2 scopes I feel I have all the bases covered.

If you buy one you will not regret it and I nearly forgot to mention that mine has been to Wales and the Isle of Man on its travels. When you pack it up with the mount it is quite compact and portable which is another plus.

Happy Days

[Liquid360]

Nice photo but I think you could've done better imaging with xmas lights. They aren't the pinpoints we like to see. [emoji6]

Hi Pal

I thought I might as well take a photo of my setup so you can see for yourself (see below). I use a CG5 mount which is nice and sturdy.

Regarding planetary I have a C100ED for that although I don't use it as much now as I prefer the light gathering power of the Startravel !!!

Make no mistake the CA on this scope out of the box is bad but it can be managed. For one it has a special lens cap which comes is 2 parts. When you remove the inner cap to reduce the aperture you double the focal length to F10 should you desire which reduces CA but the image is somewhat dimmer as you would expect (I never do this by the way).

My alternative is to use the Baader semi-apo filter which does a really good job of taking care of CA and doesn't distort the colour. Hence the CA is still noticeable but it doesn't bother me.

I got mine a good few years ago now for a steal at around £200 from the scopes n' skies bargain bucket. Its actually shorter than the C100ED (which is another mighty fine scope by the way!) and with these 2 scopes I feel I have all the bases covered.

If you buy one you will not regret it and I nearly forgot to mention that mine has been to Wales and the Isle of Man on its travels. When you pack it up with the mount it is quite compact and portable which is another plus.

Happy Days

[Kef9]

lol

I took it with my phone. I was going for the bokeh effect!!!

[timwetherell]

Having made the mistake myself, I don't think it's just the time to set up a scope, it's the "grunt" required. I designed a "portable" pier for an 8" refractor and a motorised lift trolley to raise the 40kg scope onto the mount which all worked and enabled me to set it up in about 3 minutes. It was quick but it wasn't effortless. It was more like those soldiers stripping down a big artillery gun at a military tattoo! It was the heaving and straining that I used to dread - to the extent that I tended to cut observing sessions short to get the dreaded pack down over with. A permanently mounted instrument in an observatory is  probably the best of all worlds, though it's a luxury that's neither practical nor affordable for the vast majority of people

I'm a "dyed in the wool" refractor man myself, but wonderful though they are, they can't really compete with the light grasp of a big reflector on deep sky stuff. If your particular situation allows it, a 12" Dob that can be easily wheeled out of the garage is probably a good option. I think that the Dob design overcomes most of the ergonomic problems that often beset equatorially mounted Newtonians.

Ease of set up is probably the key rather than time to set up. IMHO ten minutes of pleasant pottering is probably preferable to three minutes grunting and straining!

[deepspacehunter]

I LOVE MY 12" DOB.... AWESOME VIEWS,,,  ON EVERYTHING   !!!!!!!

Mark