Solar scope or quark..... which would you go for ?

[Stu]

I'm in a similar situation re: solar but nonetheless it's interesting to follow the introduction of a new product that might be a game changer in this field.

I tend to have an aversion to anything that needs a power supply and has wires attached in all honesty, especially if I'm going to be an early adopter

I'm quite glad to be able to watch this one from the sidelines I think !

John, I can't believe that you haven't, but have you looked through a decent sized refractor with a Herschel wedge? The views are pretty astounding!

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[Moonshane]

Maybe a 102mm ED Vixen? Try it John, I reckon you'll be very impressed.

[Luke]

Ideally I would have both, but if one only, I would choose the Quark. But buy from a good retailer just in case there is an issue (I have returned two Quarks to SCS Astro and they have been very good, you learn the value of a retailer when things go wrong).

I thought the 2x Quark was going to be for longer focal length telescopes, with the Quark optimal at about F30, though perhaps I heard that wrong?

I bought an optional battery (not the Daystar one) and 1.8m cable to use instead of the mains power supply. I use velcro to 'stick' the battery onto the mount or onto the telescope if it's a bigger scope and run the cable down along the scope. Then the wire doesn't really get in the way. The other advantage of the battery is I can warm up the Quark even indoors if I want and carry it out. I think I paid about £35 for a battery that lasts hours and hours.

Tuning-wise, maybe it is just me but I end up using the same setting each time, so it's really just warm up time for me of about 12 minutes. And if you do change the tuning mid session, you can still carry on observing while it gradually changes.

I tend to power up the Quark about 10 mins before I want to use it or as I start to set up the rest of the gear, so it's normally good to go when I am ready.

And really at home for the main sessions I set up some time before the Sun comes into view or before the clearing I can see on Sat24 arrives, so plenty of time spare for it to warm up. I will miss the odd rogue gap, but I feel I would rather skip a few chances but enjoy the extra aperture than to catch a few more chances with 60mm aperture. Of course, if you have both, you have best of both worlds

I also like that for grab and go I can take one scope to do both white light (with a Herschel wedge) and h-alpha.

I don't tend to use a reducer for viewing. I really enjoy the closer up detail on offer. I could get by with one eyepiece, I use a 32mm Plossl the most in all my scopes. It's nice to sneak in closer sometimes with the 25mm or to go wider with the 40mm, but I find the 32mm a nice balance (between keeping proms reasonably bright while still revealing a fair bit of disc detail) and I can be super lazy and not bother to change the eyepiece, so some sessions I just use the 32mm througout.

Both options have their appeal, but I would miss the extra detail on offer with the Quark in my ED100 too much, so Quark it is for me.
 

[Stu]

Thanks Luke, reassuring words :-)

I had heard that about the x2 Quark too, that fundamentally the system needs to operate at a certain focal ratio so the x2 was suited to longer focal length scopes. I guess we will see, and I can get full disk anyway so should be fine.

Stu

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[CCD Imager]

Correct, but as long as the Newtonian in less than 100mm. Above that aperture, then an ERF is recommended.

Adrian

[russ.will]

I keep looking at the Quark as it looks like it would be an ideal companion for my F6 ED80. The one thing I can't get my head around is why it WOULDN'T give a full disk image? Using FLO's FoV Calculator, I see that someone thinking the same thing has added a 4.2x Barlow. Adding in my ED80 and 20mm SWA  gives this:

What am I missing?

Russell

[John]

John, I can't believe that you haven't, but have you looked through a decent sized refractor with a Herschel wedge? The views are pretty astounding!

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I've owned a PST for a few months and looked through a number of H-Alpha solar scopes up to 80mm Stu and the views were impressive but I'm just not grabbed enough by them to invest more than the cost of the white light filter (which was free !!) in it at the moment. Maybe that will change someday though then I'll see whats available, read all the reports and go for something.

It's great that others do find this area enthralling though and I'll keep the solar equipment scene under scrutiny

[CCD Imager]

I spoke to Shaun at Daystar about the 2x and also 0x quarks which they are developing and will be available some time next year. They are designed to work with longer focal length scopes and for example the 0x will be good with Maksutovs. But the optimal views will always be obtained at F30.

I think the concerns about power supplies and not really an issue, small power packs can be purchased relatively cheaply and you don't have to wait for 12 minutes to view either. Excellent views can still be had whilst the Quark is warming up and you will be filled with delight knowing they will only get better!

I ordered mine from Kieron at SCS Astro, but unfortunately it was sent back due to some quality issues!!

Adrian

[CCD Imager]

Russell, you are missing nothing

I had a full solar disk view through a 60mm F7 scope and there was room to spare, similar to your graphic. I even tried an Antares 0.5x reducer with a 32mm eyepiece giving a much smaller image. I suppose the disadvantage is when it comes to imaging. Unless you have a very large format camera, then you can't get a full disk image. One way round this would be to make a mosaic with or without a reducer.

Adrian

[Peter Drew]

I've had considerable experience with dedicated Ha telescopes, PST mods and lately the Daystar Quark. I have to say, for the outlay, I still overall prefer my 120mm PST mod due to its versatility. With it I can easily use a magnification range of 30X-150X with a full disc image up to around 75X using a BF15. The telescope can also be used with a Herschell wedge or returned to a normal nightime unit by quickly removing the internal ERF. The advantages are much improved resolution, a bright image that stands high magnification, instant viewing and reasonable cost. Disadvantages, the need for a F10 refractor for a straightforward mod and the smaller sweet spot. I find that the sweet spot issue is akin to the Newtonian collimation issue, you soon get used to it and it shouldn't put you off for considering either system. 

[spaceboy]

I keep looking at the Quark as it looks like it would be an ideal companion for my F6 ED80. The one thing I can't get my head around is why it WOULDN'T give a full disk image? Using FLO's FoV Calculator, I see that someone thinking the same thing has added a 4.2x Barlow. Adding in my ED80 and 20mm SWA  gives this:

astronomy_tools_fov.png

What am I missing?

Russell

Sorry Russ that's me confusing things. It's not fitting the whole disk in that is my concern it's reaching a useable magnification when taking in to account the Quark instantly bumps up the mag by x4.2. Whether higher magnifications are possible in the quark I don't know as I have no personal experience with them but white light I have found x38 is the most useable magnification with anything above putting strain on my eye and giving me a headache. Yes there are moments when I could push it to x50 but they are so short lived I find it better just to concentrate on the views at x38 than miss them through eyepiece changes.

With the quark in my 80mm f/6 getting x38 is either going to require a 55mm ep (quark recommend TV plossl) giving me x33 or using a focal reducer  ??

[Moonshane]

I've had considerable experience with dedicated Ha telescopes, PST mods and lately the Daystar Quark. I have to say, for the outlay, I still overall prefer my 120mm PST mod due to its versatility. With it I can easily use a magnification range of 30X-150X with a full disc image up to around 75X using a BF15. The telescope can also be used with a Herschell wedge or returned to a normal nightime unit by quickly removing the internal ERF. The advantages are much improved resolution, a bright image that stands high magnification, instant viewing and reasonable cost. Disadvantages, the need for a F10 refractor for a straightforward mod and the smaller sweet spot. I find that the sweet spot issue is akin to the Newtonian collimation issue, you soon get used to it and it shouldn't put you off for considering either system. 

Great post Peter

Would it be possible to create a 'PST mod' with a 35mm Lunt as the donor HA portion or would a 50mm Lunt be even better? I have a 102mm F10 frac I could use as the donor.Sorry this is going off topic (albeit related) a bit but it seems OK with Nick - please say if not mate. the reason I ask is that the 35mm Lunt apparently has less of a / no sweet spot.

[spaceboy]

OK with me Shane as I have pondered all options myself mate including a PST/100RS mod.

[Uplooker]

Great post Peter

Would it be possible to create a 'PST mod' with a 35mm Lunt as the donor HA portion or would a 50mm Lunt be even better? I have a 102mm F10 frac I could use as the donor.Sorry this is going off topic (albeit related) a bit but it seems OK with Nick - please say if not mate. the reason I ask is that the 35mm Lunt apparently has less of a / no sweet spot.

Hi Shane,

here are some links to discussions on the modding of LS 35 and LS 50 on solarchat

LS35

http://solarchat.natca.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=11076 See post #10

 Lunt LS50

http://solarchat.natca.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=11707 See post #5

Ian

[Peter Drew]

Shane. The links Uplooker has helpfully posted will say much more than I can add. The main overall problem to be addressed with using front etalons downstream of the objective is that these etalons are configured to receive parallel incoming light. 

[Moonshane]

Thanks guys. I am just going to stick with the new lunt 50. I may in the future do a pst mod though

[Stu]

Thanks guys. I am just going to stick with the new lunt 50. I may in the future do a pst mod though

Good plan Shane, sure you won't be disappointed :-)

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[Moonshane]

I am so tempted by some of the tilt tuned used lunt 60s for sale currently but am sticking with my gut.

[Qualia]

Bit late to the conversation but for the last few months I've been mulling exactly this question over and over. I've got nothing to add but just sounding out my thinking :

For the simplest Quark set up, I would need a good and smallish, short focal ratio frac (70mm to 80mm, f5, f6) and probably a power supply for the Quark. Having these would enable me to be pretty portable and if I did my sums right, I would also have a decent, hand luggage, air-travel kit when visiting relatives abroad or when going away. If I also had a Herschel Wedge - which I do - the set up could triple into a white light solar scope as well. So, purchasing the Quark, small frac and power supply would enable me to have a low-power wide field scope for the night, an Ha and white light for the day, and a small travel, grab n go scope for occasional times away. I imagine the price would come to around €1500 - €1600 or around £1100 to £1300.

The big downside to a Quark would be its warm up time and built in 4x barlow. This would indicate that there are no quick views with a Quark and that unless one got a short focal ratio frac, they're not going to get a whole disc image of the sun and there will probably be vignettes with tall prominences. Another suspicion is that most owners of a Quark, already have a more dedicated H-Alpha setup which sounds off alarm bells.

With this in mind the Lunt 50mm sounds an amazing offer. Being a dedicated solar scope, fitted for the exact job required, you're probably going to get better contrast and brighter features. It will also turn out to be a cheaper option, unless one already has a short focal ratio frac. The Lunt will be small and easily portable and will be ready to go at a moments notice. 

The downside is obviously aperture. I imagine a 70mm to 80mm frac with Quark will probably show more than a Lunt 50mm although the image might not be as pretty or tidy. The other slight disadvantage is ironically the Lunt's great advantage, namely, being a dedicated solar scope. As such, it is a master not a jack of trades and so the Quark + frac option opens up a wider field of possibilities in terms of travel, white light, and wide field night views. 

That's pretty much how my thinking has been going without any experience of either scope. Difficult times - options, options, options

[Stu]

I'll hopefully be in a position to give some input to these questions Rob. I may have my quark by the weekend and will be able to test in a range of fracs when time allows. Definitely in the TV85 at PSP assuming some sunshine over weekend, and possibly the Tak 60 for full disk views.

Will keep you posted

Stu

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[Stu]

Just to add aswell, I think the whole Barlow thing is a little bit of a red herring.

My understanding is that the Quark operates best at long focal ratios, f30 ish I think. The x4.2 version is suited to shorter focal length scopes, but the x2 and x0 will need to be used in longer focal length fracs or maks to operate at the optimum ratio so you still won't be able to get wider fields by using these in short focal length scopes.

I am confident I'll be able to get nice full disk views fitting in the prominences using the Tak 60 (355mm f/l) and 32m TV Plossl.

Could be wrong but those are my assumptions currently.

Stu

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[spaceboy]

I'd very much like to take a look at the quark at PSP if I am able to make it. I do like observing the whole disk but as mentioned before getting the magnification right is my main concern as there really isn't much room for movement beyond 40mm ep's at least until Daystar start offering a 2" adapter for the quark. We all have experience of seeing and transparency putting a dampener on things and sometimes less is more.

On another note I got thinking about quark saying you need uv blockers over 80mm aperture. Is it not possible to swap around the quark with the diagonal and insert the diagonal and eyepiece into the quark as this way the quark is doing what it does and your diagonal no longer gets the heat from larger aperture and removes another element from the light path to boot.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

I am pondering much the same question: bigger Lunt or Quark. because I already have an LS35, and an ST80 and APM 80mm F/6, I am veering towards a Quark. I have seen some stunning images on Solarchat using the Quark with an ST80, and some really good images with a focal reducer too. I would first try the views with my MV 68 deg 24mm (which should work well behind a telecentric lens) and only if I do not like that get either a Plossl or a focal reducer, just to see if it can do double duty in imaging and visually. I might keep the LS35 for grab and go, but the Quark can be "preheated" in my office, and is said to stay on band very well. The teething problems do worry me; ordering from a reliable retailer is important, in such cases.

[Stu]

Nick, if the weather plays ball, hopefully you can have a look.

My understanding is that you can connect them in the other order ie Quark first with UV/IR cut ahead of it if needed, then the diagonal into the quark. It does mean you need a 1.25" diagonal which I don't have.

Not sure how much risk there is to the diagonal if it is first in the chain, I would always put a UV/IR cut in regardless I think, why wouldn't you?

Stu

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[spaceboy]

I am so tempted by some of the tilt tuned used lunt 60s for sale currently but am sticking with my gut.

This also crossed my mind Shane but I think you have to be really careful buying used solar scopes as the PST rust proved on many an occassion. There is obviously the risk of loosing your sight when using solar scopes but there is also the often large costs involved even when buying used. If a fault is found soon after buying a used scope you could be landed with either a large repair bill or more often than not a moment of questioning your own morality. As far as I am aware neither Lunt, Daystar or Coranado transfer warranties from original purchasers so even if a seller suggests there is remaining warranty on the item this is not the case.