First light - Blurry :-(

[mrjaffa]

I managed to see a bit of mars last week but there were too many clouds. When I did see it, it seemed rather blurry.

Tried again tonight, lovely clear sky and I'm certain the image isn't as clear as it should be. If it is, it's very disappointing.

I've had my 200p EQ5 for a couple of weeks. So does it sound like it needs collimating or could it just be bad seeing?

If it does need collimating, I've just checked FLO and it looks like over £60 for a collimator!! Surely not :-/

[baggywrinkle]

Are you using the stock ep's?  If it is a Skywatcher they are usualy 10 & 25mm. Reports from other members here say they are not the best.

Is the image blurry in both?

If you look at a star and slighly defocus do you get an even spread of rings, or are the bunched to one side?

[mrjaffa]

Thanks for the reply. I am using the stock EP's yes. It's blurry in both.

I just tried looking at a star. I think that appears crisp enough, and when I defocus like you said, I kind of get an evenly spread ring of dots.

[LukeSkywatcher]

Mars is the one inner planet that is a complete nightmare to observe.

Ive personally given up on it as in all the times ive observed it, once for a fleeting second or two i managed to make out some detail.

I dont bother with it now.

[mrjaffa]

I sure hoped for better than what I was seeing though.

[JemC]

Hi mrjaffa

Don't give up, keep at it, I myself am relatively new to astronomy, some things just take a little time, I have found over the weeks that my eyes are adjusting and what I am seeing through the scope is getting better, and like others have said the standard eyepieces that come with the scope are not the best, and Mars is a difficult target. (more money to be spent)

as for what you was hoping to see, if you have not read this http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/196278-what-can-i-expect-to-see/  please have a read it kind of puts things into perspective a little.

Regards

[Jim Steele]

Mars is tricky, appears as a fuzzy blob in most scopes and takes a while and patience to see detail with any clarity.

Remember, the images you see on tinterweb are often stacks of blurry images with lots of processing to chose the best frames

[coulthamst]

In addition to the points made above, last night's seeing was affected by high jetstream speeds, which would make any view of Mars difficult.

[Moonshane]

are you allowing your scope to cool outside for at least an hour or so? this will massively affect the views if not.

Mars is very tricky as stated above. even at 200x, it's about the size of a pea at arms' length.

if you observe for maybe half an hour or more you'll start to see detail come and go with the seeing. only on exceptional nights or low magnification does the image stay stable constantly. once you reach what appears to be a point of good focus, leave it alone as it's the atmosphere that's putting it in and out of focus.

here's some recent sketches I have done with my 6" scope at around 200x. keep at it, you'll eventually get some detail. the small dot in some of them is the actual size in the eyepiece.

a decent Cheshire is no more than £25 or so. that's all you need for collimation.

[Moonshane]

good point above about seeing conditions. often when the sky is very clear too the seeing conditions are actually not brilliant for high magnification. in that case turn to larger fainter targets like globular clusters or galaxies etc. if it's slightly misty high up plan for looking at planets and double stars. or the moon. you'll soon know when you start looking outside and see stars twinkling a lot. much twinkling = bad seeing conditions.

[bingevader]

I haven't had a good night on Mars yet! 

But as Moonshane has said, if you are able to focus on other objects, such as globular clusters, then it's most likely the conditions, not the collimation of the 'scope.

[mrjaffa]

Hi mrjaffa

Don't give up, keep at it, I myself am relatively new to astronomy, some things just take a little time, I have found over the weeks that my eyes are adjusting and what I am seeing through the scope is getting better, and like others have said the standard eyepieces that come with the scope are not the best, and Mars is a difficult target. (more money to be spent)

as for what you was hoping to see, if you have not read this http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/196278-what-can-i-expect-to-see/ please have a read it kind of puts things into perspective a little.

Regards

Thanks bud. I certainly didn't expect great pics like those we see on the web. I did have a 70mm refractor before and was actually hooked once I'd seen Jupiter and Saturn through it. But I don't think I ever used it for Mars and so maybe I did have high expectations.

[mrjaffa]

are you allowing your scope to cool outside for at least an hour or so? this will massively affect the views if not.

Mars is very tricky as stated above. even at 200x, it's about the size of a pea at arms' length.

if you observe for maybe half an hour or more you'll start to see detail come and go with the seeing. only on exceptional nights or low magnification does the image stay stable constantly. once you reach what appears to be a point of good focus, leave it alone as it's the atmosphere that's putting it in and out of focus.

here's some recent sketches I have done with my 6" scope at around 200x. keep at it, you'll eventually get some detail. the small dot in some of them is the actual size in the eyepiece.

a decent Cheshire is no more than £25 or so. that's all you need for collimation.

Thanks for this. I didn't leave it outside to cool which I know you are suppose to do. My problem is finding somewhere to go. In my garden is no good. I just happened to be able to open my back doors, leave the scope in the kitchen and see Mars.

I actually had a drive out last night in the countryside looking for somewhere to set up. Plenty of dark skies but no ideal spot.

I need to get a look at something else. It's sounding like it doesn't need collimating and that I've just started with a tough planet.

[mrjaffa]

Thanks for all the replies.

Couple of questions.

Where is the best place to keep the scope when not being used? Somewhere cool like the garage or in my spare room which may even get quite warm (will that matter)?

Should I buy a collimator first or new EP? I was looking on FLO and it looks like 2 new EP's, Skywatcher Plossl could cost me under £50.

[Jim Steele]

I just happened to be able to open my back doors, leave the scope in the kitchen and see Mars.

Though covinient looking outside from inside will cause all kind of problems due to heat leaving your kitchen causing turbulence and shimmer. Best analogy is trying to see features on the moon from the bottom of a swimming pool

[RichM63]

I have the same scope Mars is difficult with the supplied EPs, and as for attempting to barlow the 10mm, try making a decent brew with cold water.

From your posting time, why not have a stab at Saturn, somewhat lower and to the SE, this should put the smile back.

Also Globular Clusters are pretty good targets, M3 and M13 are well worth bagging, with M3 being the first true Messier, and M13 being the first 'YES' target and with good seeing and dark skies quite possibly visible naked eye.

Don't give up, the 200P is a great scope.

Rich

[mrjaffa]

Though covinient looking outside from inside will cause all kind of problems due to heat leaving your kitchen causing turbulence and shimmer. Best analogy is trying to see features on the moon from the bottom of a swimming pool

Makes sense!

[mrjaffa]

I have the same scope Mars is difficult with the supplied EPs, and as for attempting to barlow the 10mm, try making a decent brew with cold water.

From your posting time, why not have a stab at Saturn, somewhat lower and to the SE, this should put the smile back.

Also Globular Clusters are pretty good targets, M3 and M13 are well worth bagging, with M3 being the first true Messier, and M13 being the first 'YES' target and with good seeing and dark skies quite possibly visible naked eye.

Don't give up, the 200P is a great scope.

Rich

So did you buy new EP's straight away?

Thought of something else..... Are the fine adjustment knobs suppose to keep falling off? I got frustrated as they fell off twice last night. Am I doing something wrong?

[RichM63]

Pretty much, 32mm the first month and 6mm the second, I do still use the supplied EPs though.

The fine adjustment knobs are push fit, (be better with a grub screw) and have a flat in the fitting indicated by a raised plastic lump that helps align them to the flat on the RA and Dec spindles.

The inside has a spring type fitting, which if the knob has previously been jammed onto the spindle could have been overly expanded.

A spot of surgery with a small screw driver could possibly close the gap in the spring but I would be tempted the wrap a turn of insulation tape around the RA and DEC spindles and then jam the knobs back on in the correct position.

The spindles are 6mm diameter, potentially, old car radio knobs of the same dia would make a donor spring if yours are goosed.

Unforunately using short flexible controls doesn't really work because they foul the mount/scope in certain positions. I tried the ones from my EQ3-2 because I found the supplied knobs way too short on a freezing dark night.

Why they didn't make these knobs with a grub screw I don't know.

Replacement knobs are available on the market.

HTH,

Rich

[stevend]

Last night conditions were poor. I was using less magnification than normal on the Moon, Jupiter, Mars and Saturn and it was tough going with just brief instances of good viewing, excepting Mars. When I tried a couple of DSOs I similarly found them disappointing compared to previous views of them. Keep at it and be assured things will get better on other nights.

[valleyman]

Not sure what colimater you was looking at with FLO, but this one is cheaper

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/other-collimation-tools/cheshire-collimating-eyepiece.html

[mrjaffa]

Last night conditions were poor. I was using less magnification than normal on the Moon, Jupiter, Mars and Saturn and it was tough going with just brief instances of good viewing, excepting Mars. When I tried a couple of DSOs I similarly found them disappointing compared to previous views of them. Keep at it and be assured things will get better on other nights.

Thanks Steve.

[mrjaffa]

Not sure what colimater you was looking at with FLO, but this one is cheaper

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/other-collimation-tools/cheshire-collimating-eyepiece.html

Thanks bud. The one I was looking at in all the tutorials had a laser. Will this one you've linked do everything, primary and secondary?

[Astro Imp]

I have to agree that the seeing was poor here last night, I viewed Jupiter, Mars and Saturn and the detail on all three was minimal.

Keep at it and better nights will come along and you will have some great views.

[Charic]

mrjaffa........ Hi, I have similar telescope to you with the same supplied EP's. After all I have purchased, I would suggest an 8mm  BST Starguider in place of your 10mm.

You can collimate with the dust cap on your focuser tube http://www.astro-baby.com/collimation/astro%20babys%20collimation%20guide.htm however, again, I would suggest the long version Cheshire for collimating your telescope. FLO provides your accessories but have a look here too http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/skies_unlimited/m.html