Help please. Need advise on taking pictures of orion nebula

[adavies8900]

Here it is. I dont know where to start. I got a skywatcher 150PL with EQ 3-2 mount and me and the girlfriend are interested in taking pictures or just getting started.

After about 2 weeks of research i feel like i am going round in circles and astrophotography is the next step in this aweeeeesome hobby . I really want to take pictures of the Orion nebula and Andromeda galaxy and planets (would be amazing) so now my head is spinning around.

We have seen the camera (DSLR) we would like to get but what else is there i need??  Heard that i might need a better mount so don't want to spend a ton of money if i got to get a better on first. Price range maybe about £200 - £300 without the camera.

Any advise on what camera to get? 

Would i need any adopters? 

Maybe a better scope?

I'm not sure so any advise would be appreciate and thank you in advance.

  

[frugal]

A lot of it depends on what you want to image. Wide-field, Nebula, Galaxies, Planets, Lunar etc. They all have different requirements on the mount, scope and camera. If you want to take wide-field shots, then you might just want to get an Right Ascension motor for your EQ-3 and stick the camera on the mount instead of the 150p, if you want to image planets, then a web cam might be a better investment than a DSLR. If you want to take nebula then you will need to get a more accurate mount and possibly a dedicated CCD camera.

I will give you the standard advice and tell you to get a copy of this book first before you make any equipment purchases: http://www.firstlightoptics.com/books/making-every-photon-count-steve-richards.html

[PeterCPC]

Hi

Getting started with astrophotos can be a bit daunting, as I know from experience, but the Orion Nebula is a good place to start as it is relatively easy to capture due to the surface brightness.

I took this photo about 2 weeks ago using my CPC800 on it's Alt/Az mount. I used a Canon 550d DSLR and captured the picture using Backyard EOS which is a great piece of software which is very easy to use. I had the camera set to ISO1600 and took 20 ex at 20secs and 20 ex at 10secs. I had a light pollution filter on the camera. I then combined and rotated the images in Nebulosity (more software). I then applied a few finishing touches to the image using Paintshop Pro.

You have the advantage of having an equitorial mount so that should help. Adapters needed will be a Tee adapter  with a T mount to attach it to the camera.

Of course, if you use something like Backyard EOS to capture images, you will also need a laptop/netbook to attach to the camera.

I hope that helps a bit.

Peter

[adavies8900]

Thats the sort of pictures i want to take. It looks amazing. Great picture

So you think that my mount will be fine just need a few adapters and a camera? Just downloaded the Backyard to get started.

Thank you both 

[Leveye]

You will need a tracking mount, a guidescope and CCD camera and an imaging camera.This was done with a refractor at 460mm. I did multi exposure of 4 seconds. 30 seconds. 120 seconds and 300 seconds for this one. Then layered them together.

[Alien 13]

Hi

I use an EQ3-2 mount and all you need to get started is a RA motor and polarscope the maximum exposure times for this mount with a camera/lens or a small FL refractor is between 90 seconds and 2 minutes, with your scope however it will be around 30-45 seconds.

I do not know if your scope can achieve focus with a DSLR so that will need checking out.

Alan

[adavies8900]

Thank you for all your advise. Think im going to do abit more research on what things are and go from there. Looks pretty expensive and haven't got the camera yet ha hopefully one day i will be posting pictures like yours  

[PeterCPC]

Good luck and don't get discouraged if your first tries are not very successful - you will learn by your set backs and mistakes. Remember to make notes each time on what exposures you take (ISO and exposures etc). My first goes were useless and I felt like giving up but you need to stick at it.

Do as much research as you can.

If you are going down the DSLR route I can really recommend "Digital SLR Astrophotography" by Michael A. Covington which contains loads of useful information.

Peter 

[Astrosurf]

Just have a go! If you haven't got a RA motor then have a look at getting one. I've not used one/installed one so can't help there.

Stick the camera on and try a few shots at different exposures, at ISOs 800 & 1600, and see what you get. Have fun finding out. If you have trouble reaching focus, you might need an extension tube, but others will know about that on here.

If your camera comes with a zoom/long lens, why not mount that onto your scope and use it directly, rather than via the scope? You'll be able to get longer exposures the more wide-andle the lens is. Melsy uses a 200mm lens for nebulae which can be huge, but he does use an Astrotrac. I'm just using that as an illustration. Bear in mind many nebulae are emission types which emit mosty in the IR so you would need to have your camera modded to remove the IR filter. There are those who offer the service. Ask on here. The Orion Neb is both emission and reflection so is a good one to start with. Or just do star fields. And the Moon of course! A good starter object. It's bright and big!

I hope I'm not giving you duff gen as I'm not familiar with your scope!

Good luck!

Alexxx

[Langy]

DSLR with a long lens is great fun, I think that is my favourite part at the moment. Now that I have it sat on the scope with an RA motor I can get longer exposures. Still very early days for me on that front.

Webcam and DSLR through the scope is still very much in the early stages of trial and error and need a lot more work.

I think I've just taken the attitude that I will experiment and try and get the best from my equipment, knowing that I'm not going to do as well as most unless I part with a lot of money.

The key thing is don't have high expectations, have fun with it and experiment. When you do capture something it really is enjoyable.

Some of the pics I have I really enjoy, but to a lot of people they are sheer newbie images. They all know we start somewhere and will help out where they can.

[MikeMc]

Hi,

I chose the 150pds so I'm not certain about the 150pl but you already have 6" of apature and an EQ mount so you are on a good start!

As others have said you need to look at some motors as tracking the objects will allow you to take longer exposures, but Polar Alignment then becomes important.

You will go round in circles for a while, I think we all did at some point, and it is an addictive hobby (I'm envious your GF is into it too as you won't have to try and explain why it is so great to stand outside in freezing conditions rather than 'coming to bed' :-))

I would suggest the following,

1. Ask questions and listen to people on SGL, they have an unbelievable amount of experience and knowledge and no question is to 'dumb'

2. Buy 'Making Every Photon Count' - essential reading

3. Try everything you have. Stick your phone up to the eye piece and take a pic. Butcher an old web cam, stick it to a 25mm film case and put it in place of an eye piece, take a vid and run it through Registax.

4. Planets are different to DSOs, Web cam for planets, stills for DSO

5. Look into either a new mount (THE most important part of an imaging setup) or into motors for yours. These targets move so you need to track them in order to take long exposure pictures

6. For value Vs performance I found the Cannon DSLRs to be the sweet spot, they are also supported by loads of free software. I bought a second hand 450d (with live view - a BIG help) - just the body as your scope will be the lens. Don't forget the T-Ring adapter!

7. Once you get a DSLR on your scope, know how to find and focus an object - all the other stuff will follow.

8. Get a remote shutter release cable too, so you don't touch the camera body when taking pictures. Initially you will have to stand there and manually take the pics, worry later about automating it all.

9. Deep Sky Stacker for DSOs and Registax for Planets are your friends and FREE!

Read Making Every Photon Count and it will explain it all and once you have mastered the above you will need to learn the dark art of 'Post processing' - :-)

Sorry to go on so much but so many others on here helped me so I would like to pass on their wisdom. This is my first go at Orion,

[Russe]

Here it is. I dont know where to start. I got a skywatcher 150PL with EQ 3-2 mount and me and the girlfriend are interested in taking pictures or just getting started.

After about 2 weeks of research i feel like i am going round in circles and astrophotography is the next step in this aweeeeesome hobby . I really want to take pictures of the Orion nebula and Andromeda galaxy and planets (would be amazing) so now my head is spinning around.

We have seen the camera (DSLR) we would like to get but what else is there i need??  Heard that i might need a better mount so don't want to spend a ton of money if i got to get a better on first. Price range maybe about £200 - £300 without the camera.

Any advise on what camera to get? 

Would i need any adopters? 

Maybe a better scope?

I'm not sure so any advise would be appreciate and thank you in advance.

Certainly daunting, but a very rewarding type of a hobby... needs buckets of patience..

So you got a scope, and a mount.

The mount needs a motor, so that your scope can start tracking.

Single axis: http://www.firstlightoptics.com/skywatcher-mounts/single-axis-dc-motor-drive-for-eq3-2.html

or

Dual Axis: http://www.firstlightoptics.com/skywatcher-mounts/dual-axis-dc-motor-drive-for-eq3-2.html

Does your mount have a polar scope already? This would be one that is supposedly usable (don't have this mount myself and am uncertain): https://www.google.co.uk/aclk?sa=l&ai=CeED3DfP8UpyWAae_7QbRtIDACIzYqb0ElOSjl1rexNz6mwEICRABIN7Nzx4oD1CDhJHsBGC7ts-D4AqgAfCPsuYDyAEHqQKdq8XiGea7PqoEJ0_QFQ7cBuDs25uYSPBJExRCbN2FuqtLec7BLEMP3v3U_qJ2HxHoJMAFBaAGJoAH-O_NGZAHA-AS-YHio9u5i8CCAQ&sig=AOD64_0mmtbPkLl8ew8IbO50UW37YiJfKw&ctype=5&ved=0CEMQ2CkwAA&adurl=http://www.365astronomy.com/index.php%3Fmain_page%3Dproduct_info%26products_id%3D2033%26currency%3DGBP

Then you'd need adapters for your camera to the scope - this: http://www.firstlightoptics.com/adaptors/flo-2-inch-t-mount-camera-adapter.html and this: http://www.firstlightoptics.com/adaptors/t-rings.html

An excellent programme for Canon control is "astrophotography tool" APT - http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CCwQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ideiki.com%2Fastro%2FDownload.aspx&ei=mfH8UprkIIzA7AaDigE&usg=AFQjCNEUMA2mL0NlNgnP-jnTAOex6oqKhA&bvm=bv.61190604,d.ZGU

It would pay off to buy either a 450D or a 1100D - both are used quite commonly. Do buy a used body only - not the full camera - much cheaper this way.

So, you'd start polar aligning your scope. After that you could run Alignmaster: http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CCwQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alignmaster.de%2FDownload.aspx&ei=WfP8UsaJIM6AhAeAg4DgDg&usg=AFQjCNF2-B2RgomYTaLwa098lmDAc9ceEg&bvm=bv.61190604,d.ZG4

An excellent programme to make your alignment more accurate.

Then you should read "Every Photon counts" by Steve Richards: http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CDEQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.firstlightoptics.com%2Fbooks%2Fmaking-every-photon-count-steve-richards.html&ei=kvP8UorhGI-RhQfq4YHQDw&usg=AFQjCNFppyAcZ8ZV7KjoW8YR9lToPuj3fg&bvm=bv.61190604,d.ZG4

Right - now if you get bored with this sort of setup - you could think down the line of guiding. Many people use something like this. A camera (eg. QHY5 - http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CDQQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fqhyccd.com%2Fen%2Fleft%2Fpage3%2Fqhy5-series%2F&ei=0fP8UpXIKsK4hAeEi4DYDw&usg=AFQjCNEGxoABEFdkuF1YkU_vTRrw8NPInQ&bvm=bv.61190604,d.ZG4) and a 9x50 finder scope (http://www.firstlightoptics.com/finders/skywatcher-9x50-right-angled-erecting-finderscope.html). If you go for such a finder-guider setup, you'll need an adapter for the camera and for the specific finderscope you choose (right angled or straightthrough makes a difference!). For adapters, see here: http://www.modernastronomy.com/accessories.html

For guiding, you'd need a software as well. Now here it's starting to get messy... PHD is an excellent guiding software: http://www.stark-labs.com/downloads.html ... people who guide often control their mounts with EQMOD/ASCOM (difficult to install, but amazing to use once it's working...) http://eq-mod.sourceforge.net/

If you have problems installing this platform - there should be enough help around here.

Now, having said all this - what I do wonder is, whether you can achieve focus with your 150PL and a Canon. Someone here should have a clue. I used to have a 130p, which I had to mod to achieve focus with a webcam. Wasn't possible with a Canon, until and unless I used a Barlow lens. Then I bought the 130pds, which is quite a brilliant little scope.

Anyway, hope this made a bit of sense.

Ta ta.

[MikeMc]

Sorry I'm not certain what happened there - I cant seem to upload pics at the moment.  I'll try again later.

[Russe]

I forgot the coma corrector: http://www.firstlightoptics.com/coma-correctors/skywatcher-coma-corrector.html

[Pete Presland]

i think you might struggle with "in" focus travel to be honest. the PDS range have low profile dual speed focusers and i think the tube length is slightly shorter as well. it is surprising what you can image just on a standard fixed tripod set up doing widefield.

[Pete Presland]

I forgot the coma corrector: http://www.firstlightoptics.com/coma-correctors/skywatcher-coma-corrector.html

essential for the 200PDS in my opinion, i did find it a little annoying that i had to spend another £100 straight after buying the OTA though!

[Russe]

essential for the 200PDS in my opinion, i did find it a little annoying that i had to spend another £100 straight after buying the OTA though!

Same here. Annoying, but essential for the 130pds.

[adavies8900]

Thank you for all the advise. It has been really helpful. Just a quick question, how long did it take to start because i know its not going to take over night  

Thank you all again

[Langy]

 Just a quick question, how long did it take to start because i know its not going to take over night

How long did what take?

[Russe]

I started with a webcam on an Alt/Az mount which was great for planetary work. 2 years later now I'm dabbling with a DSLR... So - if you read the above mentioned book, you be straightaway in the midst of things. You gotta figure out what calibration frames are (darks, bias, flats) and how to take them and off you go...

[adavies8900]

getting everything together. Getting started. I feel like i am a million miles away at the moment. Thank you Russe

[Russe]

No worries - u'll be up and running in no time & then you'll start cursing the weather...

[toxic]

i started nearly 3 years ago ( ye i know i'm a slow learner ) but it has been fun 

i will say get making every photon count  i say this because i did'nt  get it  then i upgraded from a skywatcher 127 supertrack  to a skywatcher 200pds +coma corrector and a celestron cg5 gt mount  and now i know  the mount is at its maximum payload. so ask lots of questions on sgl and you will get lots of help and advice  here is an example of what you can start to achieve when you listen to the people on here.

[PeterCPC]

I started with a webcam on an Alt/Az mount which was great for planetary work. 2 years later now I'm dabbling with a DSLR... So - if you read the above mentioned book, you be straightaway in the midst of things. You gotta figure out what calibration frames are (darks, bias, flats) and how to take them and off you go...

If you take JPEG images with a DSLR you don't need to worry about calibration frames, just make sure the camera has long exposure noise reduction set. My Orion pic above was taken this way as I have had a lot of trouble with RAW images in DeepSky Stacker. Now I just use JPEGs and Nebulosity to stack which is better than DSS anyway. 

You can always "progress" to RAWs and callibration frames later if you want. My advice would be to take it slow and makes things as easy for yourself as you can to begin with otherwise you may quickly lose heart due the the sheer complexity of it all. I think that my Orion pic proves that reasonable results can be obtained with quite simple set ups.

Peter

[Russe]

That's certainly an idea. Funnily enough though, having learnt a bit of postprocessing, I now am looking at my old data and wished I had shot it in a better data format...