Bare minimum (read: cheapest) kit for DSO photography

[Chris]

So the thing about this is, you can do 30-60secs on at alt-az mount without noticable rotation. You almost certainly cannot do any more on a cheap EQ mount due to periodic error (unless you get into guiding, or want to to do very short focal lengths). So if you are trying to do it on the cheap, a tracking alt-az mount is fine.

NigelM

Its an interesting question I feel, which is better for on the cheap DSO imaging out of a Alt az tracking mount or basic EQ mount with drives? I've only used the EQ5, HEQ6, and NEQ6 for imaging so I have no experience of alt az imaging. I only managed 60 seconds with my EQ5 and basic motors but I know others such as Quatermass on here who get 2 minutes out of them with a bit of tickling. I think I would side with EQ mounts for this reason alone.

[Alien 13]

Thanks for the replies.

It's certainly been interesting to read the differences between people's definitions of "bare minimum".

I think a tracking mount for the DSLR such as an iOptron Skytracker might be a good place to start for me.

I don't know how well a properly polar aligned and motorised eq3-2 would compare with that, it'd certainly be the cheaper option.

I dont know if my EQ3-2 is the norm but i dont have backlash in any axis and can get 2 minute subs at 400mm FL unguided  with the standard motor drives but it does require very good polar alignment and a careful eye on the loading.

Alan

[DeepThought]

The iOptron Skyguider is a new one on me, looks like a nice piece of kit though. Any idea how much they'll cost?.. Or is it uncool to ask?

[Chris]

 I've read that focal length does not play a factor in this imaging time, however, obviously the mount abilities will be more taxed with longer focal length and heavier setups.

Olly P described it well if I can quote him correctly? he described that imaging at long focal lengths is like holding a snooker cue out at arms length, any slight movement of your arm and the end of the cue will wobble with quite a bit of amplification. Imaging wise the longer the focal length the more photons get smeared over pixels on the sensor per amount of error in tracking. I have noticed this effect, I've got away with longer subs at 400mm than at 1000-2000mm focal length.

[jgs001]

Totally agree. But the point is that doesn't matter for exposure time if you can mount it properly.

However the thread request was about the cheapest option within the limits of the OPs current equipment. And as good as the dslr tracking mounts are they are not cheap.

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[TractionMan]

The iOptron Skyguider is a new one on me, looks like a nice piece of kit though. Any idea how much they'll cost?.. Or is it uncool to ask?

Well, I've only looked at TS site so far and they have two options atm.http://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p6682_iOptron-SkyGuider-with-tripod---transportable-equatorial-astrophotograpyh-mount.html and http://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p6681_iOptron-SkyGuider-for-Phototripod---transportable-equatorial-astrophotograpyh-moun.html

[DeepThought]

Well, I've only looked at TS site so far and they have two options atm.http://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p6682_iOptron-SkyGuider-with-tripod---transportable-equatorial-astrophotograpyh-mount.html and http://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p6681_iOptron-SkyGuider-for-Phototripod---transportable-equatorial-astrophotograpyh-moun.html

That puts it in between SkyTracker and Astrotrac price points. It'll be interesting to see how it stacks up against the competition.

[astromartian]

The rotation between frames produces a natural dither effect. DSS handles the derotation of frames, as the images are all aligned by the stars detected. I've shot the bubble nebula with 150 frames of about 40 seconds each over three nights. And the end result does not contain any rotation effects.

That's something new I've learnt; thanks.

[dph1nm]

This shot was done with 30sec exposures on a Nexstar SLT alt-az mount and a 4in scope (the SLT102) - Canon 1000D camera:

This is at 600mm focal length - longer focal lengths will be tricky, but the secret is just to bin up the images. The other useful thing is that unlike EQ mounts the tracking errors tend to be fairly random in direction (i.e. both in az an alt),  so when you stack loads up they tend produce round, if fuzzy, stars!

NigelM

[TractionMan]

An iOptron Skyguider review at last: http://www.cloudynights.com/item.php?item_id=2948

[DeepThought]

An iOptron Skyguider review at last: http://www.cloudynights.com/item.php?item_id=2948

Looks nice, but for EQ5 Pro money I think  I'd rather have an EQ5 Pro.

I suppose the Sky Guider wins on portability.

[TractionMan]

Looks nice, but for EQ5 Pro money I think  I'd rather have an EQ5 Pro.

I suppose the Sky Guider wins on portability.

Yes, unfortunately the price has gone up a bit. Portability and easy to set up is what I'm after. But at the moment I'm leaning towards the Skytracker V2.

[cepheus42]

I've just taken the plunge into DS imaging and at Astrofest I bought a dedicated imaging set up. In total it cost around £1600 :

Skywatcher Evo 80ED Pro

HEQ5 Synscan Pro

ST80 Guidescope

Dual mount bar

Field flattener

Starlight Xpress CoStar autoguide camera

1.25' T extension

Some cables

I already had a DSLR Canon 1100D

I purchased Back Yard EOS $50

I'm guessing when you put everything together you will probably need about £2000 so it is a significant investment. I'm quite lucky in that I have been able to afford both a Visual + Lunar/Planetary imaging set up and the DS imaging set up. I decided to go for both as I wanted to have the option and be able to produce some quality work (once I got my head round it). However, the best piece of advice I was ever given was by Dr Ian Morison (formerly of Jodrell Bank). The best kit is the kit you have. I also joined the SPA who are a fantastic help and it's great to be able to meet up with people who work in all different kinds of astronomy but professionally and amateur.

BUT.......Don't skimp on the mount, its the lynch pin to a good set up.

Enjoy.

[kalasinman]

I see the EQ5 Pro at $947, weight around  25 kilo with tripod (no camera, lens, or guide kit), payload 9Kilo. Skyguider also with tripod $587, Payload 5K or 8.5 K in 2 device mode. The review of Skyguider on CN indicates unguided exposures of 600 seconds with no star trails on a first time use. http://www.cloudynights.com/item.php?item_id=2948 . Portability? Example: Skyguider with tripod, D5100,  Tokina 100mm (not the lightest lens of it's FL), and an Orion 5" guider with cam yields a total kit weight around 11.5 Kilo. As such the payload would be under 2.5 Kilo, less than 50%.

I believe Skytracker is an AZ mount, BTW

[ollypenrice]

If you already have a driven mount this is what I'd do;

Make a plywood wedge to set it to your equatorial angle (your latitude.) Point it roughly north and then drift align it using one of the many tutorials out there. High accuracy is not needed. It is going to be far better aligned than it is in Alt-Az. I'm assuming your mount will track in one axis only but I think it can?

Piggyback a camera and short focal length lens on this. It will give you longer subs than the same mount in alt az.

I don't believe it can be more cheaply than this.

Olly

PS, my focal length analogy usually uses 'three metre long chopsticks to pick up a pea!'

[toxic]

This is what I was afraid of.

That little shopping list is well over £1000 worth just to dabble.

I think I'll have to give up on this endeavour and take up knitting.

dont give up

you have everything to have a dabble apart from an eq moun,t-you can even attach your camera with an adapter to your az mount and get 60 second subs. or get a used eq mount eq5 or cg5 gt with your scope and use the finder as a quide scope with the webcam for a guider.you dont need to splash loads out just take your time.

and knitting is not as much fun as they say it is.

[DaveS]

If you just want to dabble..

EQ3-2, single axis motor and polar scope.

You already have a camera, add a cable release

Buy a cheap manual 50 and or 85 f/1.8 lens from anywhere. Maybe look for a 200mm later.

Away you go!

[Andy 5312]

I too was thinking about ""dabbling " in astro photography . But am more confused now then ever. Not very technically minded. Perhaps best i leave well alone .

[jgs001]

If you just want to dabble and see how you get on, just use what you have. You may well be surprised at what you can achieve.

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[Viewmaster]

I too was thinking about ""dabbling " in astro photography . But am more confused now then ever. Not very technically minded. Perhaps best i leave well alone .

O come on. with your name,' Nebula' you simply cannot give up. 

[carastro]

I started imaging for £750 (the cost of a new HEQ5) as I bought a mount and scope 2nd hand.  

It you look at the 2nd hand market you could mange on less than £1000. 

I didn't have guiding equipment at first.  You can get the other bits you need slowly for birthdays and Christmas.

Carole 

[red dwalf]

thats how i started, second hand heq5 for £520, meade dsi pro 2 for £240 already had a laptop

[jgs001]

I started imaging with a £42 NexStar SLT mount I got from ebay, and a £60 clone of the skywatcher ST80. The SLR I use was a 40th birthday present, but in value was the most expensive component. You do not need to spend a huge sum of money, use whatever you have, and give it a bash. If you need a camera, then check out http://www.mpbphotographic.co.uk/used-equipment/used-digital-slr-cameras/used-canon-digital-slr-cameras/ where a used 1000d can be had for £99.

You can even shoot widefield with just a camera tripod if you so choose, as long as the camera has manual controls, and you can open the shutter for a reasonable length of time (focusing on a lens that doesn't allow manual focus, is very very hard, is you wanted to try and use a point and shoot style camera).

Don't get me wrong, this sort of setup, whilst it works, if you get serious about imaging is very frustrating, but for a dabble...

[Alien 13]

If you just want to dabble..

EQ3-2, single axis motor and polar scope.

You already have a camera, add a cable release

Buy a cheap manual 50 and or 85 f/1.8 lens from anywhere. Maybe look for a 200mm later.

Away you go!

This is basically what i did, dont under estimate what an EQ3-2 with camera lenses can do.

Alan

[happy-kat]

Plus you get to learn all about image processing.

And being night use can use an old manual lens cheap to buy in comparison.