Bare minimum (read: cheapest) kit for DSO photography

[DeepThought]

Hi

I've been enjoying imaging the moon and planets with a webcam attached to my 127mm maksutov recently but with a good few years of poor planetary views ahead, and a distinctly finite number of objects available to be photographed, I am thinking I need to expand my repertoire a little and dabble with some DSO photography.

All that said, I have a family to think of so I'm not in a position to jump in with both feet and buy thousands of pounds worth of kit either.

I currently have a Skywatcher Skymax 127mm mak (on an AZ mount), a Canon 350d DSLR and a Sony A450 DSLR.

I'm taking the need for an equatorial mount with motor drive as a given, but as for which one, and whether I'll need a more suitable scope to go on it is something I'm clueless about.

Bear in mind I'm putting a strong emphasis on the word "dabble", I'm not trying to be the next Damian Peach just yet.

What do we think?

[Zakalwe]

There's million threads similar to this on here. A quick search will net you loads of good advice, most of which will start with "Buy Making Every Photon Count" and "invest in a good mount".

[knobby]

If you search for Paulus17 posts , you might be surprised what can be achieved with your equipment :-)

[knobby]

<a class='bbc_url' href='http://stargazerslounge.com/index.php?/topic/185409-Imaging-with-the-Skymax-127.'>http://stargazerslounge.com/index.php?/topic/185409-Imaging-with-the-Skymax-127.</a>

[swag72]

I think that if you are seriously thinking about having a go at DSO imaging, dabbling or otherwise, then get hold of the book 'Making Every Photon Count' from the book section of the FLO site. It's something of an imaging bible for DSO's. It's a good investment and will really help you to understand what works well and what doesn't. Read it through twice ...... then think about purchases you may need!!

With an EQ mount you can use a DSLR and any lens' you have to take DSO's as many are quite large. You can get away without a scope.

[red dwalf]

bare minimum i think is :-

camera :- you have a 350d so will do for now

mount :- Skywatcher heq5 synscan or pro minimum

Guide camera :- philips webcam, works ok cheap and cheerfull so if you have this webcam you are sorted for that also

scope :- a reasonable 80 mm refractor ( anything from £300 upto thousands)

guide scope :- skywatcher st80

either piggyback the guide scope on the imaging scope or buy a duel mount bar.

a laptop or desktop pc, free software Astro photography tool, eqmod, stellarium or cdc, PHD, deep sky stacker, photoshop ( version 2 is free from there website )

this should get you going

[rowan46]

absolute minimum but nowhere near the best

130pds

coma corrector 

cg5gt

finder guider 

dslr

scratch that sarahs method is the cheapest get a cheap eq mount short lens and short subs 20-30 on a dslr. not the best way though guided long exposure give you better results. but get get the book before you buy anything

[DeepThought]

bare minimum i think is :-

camera :- you have a 350d so will do for now

mount :- Skywatcher heq5 synscan or pro minimum

Guide camera :- philips webcam, works ok cheap and cheerfull so if you have this webcam you are sorted for that also

scope :- a reasonable 80 mm refractor ( anything from £300 upto thousands)

guide scope :- skywatcher st80

either piggyback the guide scope on the imaging scope or buy a duel mount bar.

a laptop or desktop pc, free software Astro photography tool, eqmod, stellarium or cdc, PHD, deep sky stacker, photoshop ( version 2 is free from there website )

this should get you going

This is what I was afraid of.

That little shopping list is well over £1000 worth just to dabble.

I think I'll have to give up on this endeavour and take up knitting.

[Langy]

I was going to stick this in as a new post at some point. Being new to the hobby I've been watching loads of youtube videos and came across the one below. This is something I wish I had known about years ago as I would have given it ago then. No scope reuqired, just DSLR, descent lens and free software. Something I will be trying in the future.

Might be worth dabbling in this first.

[smudgeball]

this should get you going

:-D

Minimum?

But in all seriousness, I think piggybacking is a good place to start.

See how you get on with exposure times.

Maybe aim for M42 and see what you get.

I used to have a camera bracket for my celestron 6SE that fitted to finder bracket.

Don't know if there is such a thing for the 127?

Regards

Neil

[rowan46]

what is your budget? it can be done cheaper but not a lot

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/celestron-mounts/celestron-cg-5-gt-goto.html

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/reflectors/skywatcher-explorer-130p-ds-ota.html

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/coma-correctors/skywatcher-coma-corrector.html

dslr

the cg5 can be picked up 2nd hand for about 300

[ronin]

Minimum to me would mean something like an EQ5, motors, polar scope, Remote timer for whichever camera.

Scope is then your choice, being light and inexpensive would seem to mean a reflector in the PDS focuser line or a small reflector around 70-72mm ED type.

You can point a camera at the sky and take 20 second exposures without trailing so I would expect 30-45 seconds on a driven EQ mount.

As you say you don't want/expect to show up Mr Peach then guiding seems excessive at the start.

Camera/Scope adaptors should be thrown in as well.

Also if imaging gets into to you then expect to upgrade just about every item.

The used market would likely be a decent source of items, just you would have to wait for the next bit to turn up.

[Oily]

Have a read of Quatermass's blog here:

http://astrocasto.blogspot.co.uk/2012/02/how-to-set-up-guiding-system-for-your.html

It'll show you what's possible on a budget.

[astromartian]

I had the same dilema not so long ago. I had a Skywatcher 200P on a EQ5 and wanted to add a motor for photography. I was either going to buy a set of GOTO motors for the EQ5 or sell the EQ5 and buy a HEQ5. I did the latter and am very happy with my decision. The EQ5 sold quickly for around £200 I think (I might be wrong) and I bought a HEQ5 used for £500. Considering that a GOTO kit for a EQ5 costs £300 it's a no brainer really as long as you don't mind owning a used HEQ5 mount. All your other stuff seems just fine.

Alternatively a much cheaper option would be to install a wedge which will mean your AZ mount work as an EQ but in the case of your AZ mount I'm not sure if it is possible. Definitely something to explore.

[jgs001]

At an absolutely bare minimum a medium one of these http://www.firstlightoptics.com/dovetail-bars/skywatcher-dovetail-mounting-plates.html

you may need to get some form of tripod thread type screw to attach the camera to the dovetail bar of course, as you probably won't have that. Then mount the dovetail bar to the SynScan AZ and go for it. Use whatever camera lens you have. You should be good for between 30 and 40 seconds anywhere in the sky, increasing to about 2 minutes low in the east and west. With this sort of setup, and an unmodded camera (ok, I was using an ST80 scope) I was able to capture the bubble nebula, you'll just need a huge number of exposures.

[Oily]

 Considering that a GOTO kit for a EQ5 costs £300 it's a no brainer really

AstroEQ for £90 turns an EQ mount equipped with motors into A 'GOTO'

[Alien 13]

I would dabble with your existing mount fitted with a DSLR and lens only, see what you can get with 20-40 second exposures you will be suprised what a fast lens can capture in 20 seconds.

If you can get reasonable results then it might be worth looking at adding to your camera lens collection (old M42 type SLR lenses with an adapter).

Alan

[Chris]

If you want bare minumum then don't worry about guiding, I've produced images I'm happy with without guiding. Just keep the focal length short and the optics fast and you don't really need guiding so much. I would opt for someting like the following:

130pds f/5 reflector (can add the coma corrector later and just crop the eggy stars out from the corners for now)

Simple driven EQ mount like the EQ3 with Dual axis drives ( yes it will suffer from bad back lash, but you should get 60 second subs with the above scope which will get you started and you wont lose much money when it comes to selling it on if you later want to upgrade). Programmable shutter release and T-ring for your 350D.

I think all the above new would be less than 500 squids and about 350 second hand.

oh yeah +1 for buying making every photon count.

Chris

[astromartian]

At an absolutely bare minimum a medium one of these http://www.firstlightoptics.com/dovetail-bars/skywatcher-dovetail-mounting-plates.html

you may need to get some form of tripod thread type screw to attach the camera to the dovetail bar of course, as you probably won't have that. Then mount the dovetail bar to the SynScan AZ and go for it. Use whatever camera lens you have. You should be good for between 30 and 40 seconds anywhere in the sky, increasing to about 2 minutes low in the east and west. With this sort of setup, and an unmodded camera (ok, I was using an ST80 scope) I was able to capture the bubble nebula, you'll just need a huge number of exposures.

Will he/she not have a problem with the image spinning with an AZ mount? I think that's why he/she wanted an EQ mount.

[dph1nm]

I'm taking the need for an equatorial mount with motor drive as a given

So the thing about this is, you can do 30-60secs on at alt-az mount without noticable rotation. You almost certainly cannot do any more on a cheap EQ mount due to periodic error (unless you get into guiding, or want to to do very short focal lengths). So if you are trying to do it on the cheap, a tracking alt-az mount is fine.

NigelM

[jgs001]

Exposure length on an AltAz mount is limited by where in the sky you aim. North/South and high in the sky, you're limited to between 30 and 40 seconds. Low in the east and west, you're limited to about 2 minutes. I've read that focal length does not play a factor in this imaging time, however, obviously the mount abilities will be more taxed with longer focal length and heavier setups.

The dovetail is all that's required to get deep sky imaging going with that mount. Make sure, when you balance the system out, the system is slightly camera heavy (not very much, just a little) to ensure the drive gears are fully engaged.

[astromartian]

So the thing about this is, you can do 30-60secs on at alt-az mount without noticable rotation. You almost certainly cannot do any more on a cheap EQ mount due to periodic error (unless you get into guiding, or want to to do very short focal lengths). So if you are trying to do it on the cheap, a tracking alt-az mount is fine.

NigelM

But if many consecutive shots are taken surely rotation will be obvious? Unless software compensates for this?

[jgs001]

The rotation between frames produces a natural dither effect. DSS handles the derotation of frames, as the images are all aligned by the stars detected. I've shot the bubble nebula with 150 frames of about 40 seconds each over three nights. And the end result does not contain any rotation effects.

[DeepThought]

Thanks for the replies.

It's certainly been interesting to read the differences between people's definitions of "bare minimum".

I think a tracking mount for the DSLR such as an iOptron Skytracker might be a good place to start for me.

I don't know how well a properly polar aligned and motorised eq3-2 would compare with that, it'd certainly be the cheaper option.

[TractionMan]

Very interesting thread. I'm also looking into something like this. Want something easy to set up and use. The iOptron Skytracker is a very tempting option, so is the new iOptron Skyguider. However, there are no reviews to be found on the latter. At least I've been unable to find any.