ioptron better than skywatcher?

[StarryEyed]

I am intending to buy a new mount in the next month or two. Would it be a consensus that ioptron are making better quality mounts than skywatcher. Havining researched both and asked a number of dealers their opinions they seem to belive that whilst sktwatcher mounts are tried and tested with a clear understanding of what you are getting, ioptron tend to have borh a better feature set and a better build quality.

I wondered what the opionion was here on Stargazers with respect to this question.

Happg new year!

[StarryEyed]

Sorry about the mobile phone keyboard.

[Tinker1947]

Some links to there mounts would be handy......

[rowan46]

I may be a minority but I would say no. I do think the ioptron mounts have great features but looking around the forums it seems that they have a lot of quality control problems it may be in a while that they get their act together but much as I would love a couple of their products I only want ones that work and stay working. Here's a link to their European distributers.

http://www.altairastro.com/

The skywatcher mounts are tried and tested and particularly the heq5 and neq6 are the best in their price band.

This is only my opinion and I may be unduly influenced as negative stories always get more attention but an awful lot of people have to mod their ioptrons to get them to work

[ronin]

Difficult to say, have read of initial problems with iOptron mounts - there were a number of post about this on CN about 8-12 months back. Equally there have been numerous posts here on SW mounts and problems. There are in the UK more SW mounts the iOptron so numerical values are not representative.

One aspect is that the iOptron mounts seem now to be getting decent reviews over on CN and no obvious problems being reported.

Having read over some time the problems with SW I will admit that I promised myself a year back that if I went for a goto EQ then it would not be SW and I would certainly look at the iOptron offerings.

As much as anything they are simply more up to date. As standard they have GPS - means if I went away with the mount I don't have to worry about the location and change the settings.

Even the basic SW dual motor handset has many reports of failures, and I would have expected something as basic as that to be robust.

SW still use the old serial port and data rates that are around 9600 or 19200 for software updates, the problems with a serial to USB converter are past count and can cause the loss of a handset. So getting a mount and system that is compatible with the modern PC equipment and not 20 years old certainly has it's attractions and advatages.

In effect at this time I would have more worries about the reliability of SW then I would about iOptron.

[perfrej]

I have only seen a 45 in the flesh and was not impressed. From what I understand it is much more sensitive to OTA length and wind than the Skywatcher equivalents. As for build quality, the iOptron is probably a slightly nicer cut, but I would put more value to the actual performance. The good old proverb that nothing beats an HEQ5 and NEQ6 in their respective price range still holds.

Best buy right now is probably the AZEQ6 (or whatever it is called).

/per

[ollypenrice]

I agree with Per though I suspect we are talking about the same mount, an iEQ45. It has good features, excellent Go To, GPS (which takes a long time to come to a decision) and low weight for its claimed payload. It also has a good PA routine.  The downside is that the spring loaded worms have some issues. The spring loading can be worked against by long OTAs which are still well below the payload maximum. The loading also seems to weaken over time. I also feel that the worm is too exposed. Get some dust and grit in there and you won't be getting much tracking accuracy.

Their new mount looks interesting but I wouldn't buy one in the first two years of production myself.

If spending up to £1.5K I would, like Per, go for the latest EQ - Alt Az version of the EQ6. This has fixed most of the niggles affecting the original which was still a very good workhorse, rough and ready but a good soldier.

Olly

[steppenwolf]

I don't like the spring loaded worm drive that iOptron use to be honest - I'd rather see better engineering to alleviate mesh issues. Having GPS is a bit of a novelty for most people as unless you regularly visit different sites, you'll probably only use it once and it is very slow to pick up the satellites in my experience.

The CEM (Chinese Equatorial Mount) is an interesting departure from the normal GEM (German Equatorial Mount) and I applaud their originality but it is not an earth-shattering development.

The HEQ5 and NEQ6 still have no equal in their price bracket but the smaller sized mounts are competing with iOptron's sleeker-designed counterparts and face more of a challenge.

[Davey-T]

I have an iEQ45  which I purchased solely for a portable setup as it is considerably lighter than the EQ6 ,also have to say that iOptron take note of customer feedback and are continuously improving their products unlike SW  who expect the customer to do it.

It's an ideal light portable mount, quick to set up and PA in the field and with a small wide field refractor is fine, if a tad expensive.

An EQ6  would be better for any large, long scope, so you pays your money and takes your pick.

Dave

[Marki]

I'm a visual observer (rather than imager) and mainly use refractors. I have one of the iOptron (az) minitowers for grab and go (typically with an 80mm apo). I found its features and ease of use particularly attractive, as was its build quality. The in-built GPS is a really good idea, although as both Olly and Steve have said, it can sometimes take ages to kick in. The Nova goto handset system is to my mind better (in terms of ease of use at least) than the Skywatcher and Celestron equivalents and the system holds alignment well and tracks accurately. I did use my 100mm f10 on it (not a great match in my view, although I've read of others using this combo effectively), and a couple of times loaded my celestron 8SE tube on to it - the minitower would drive it ok, but it did struggle towards the zenith.

However, when I decided last year that I needed a larger mount for my longer/larger refractors I eventually went for the Skywatcher AZ-EQ6GT rather than the iOptron 45 (which was the first thing I looked at given how much I liked the Minitower). My decision was mainly due to the better load capacity, and the ruggedness of construction of the Skywatcher. The iOptron was not reported as being all that great at coping with the weight, and specifically the moment that the longer tubes impart. The AZ-EQ6 seems well engineered with a much better clutch system than the (N)EQ6 has (no more messing with potentially weak bolts), and the dual encoder system is great. It copes with my f13 100mm easily, makes my 125mm f8.9 frac look like a toy and even my heavy 150mm f10  Istar Perseus achromat is pretty adequately mounted on it. The AZ-EQ6 is certainly not a lightwieight piece of kit however - luggable rather than portable . 

I think I'd have to pay a lot more to get a significantly better/more capable mount though, and given that I don't need the accuracy of the imagers, I'm not sure I need to go to that expense.

As with all these things, I guess you need to think what you'll be using the mount for most, and what you expect it to carry. Both brands have strengths and weaknesses, and whatever you go for I'd say purchasing from a reputable dealer with a good returns policy is the way to go.

[StarryEyed]

I agree with Per though I suspect we are talking about the same mount, an iEQ45. It has good features, excellent Go To, GPS (which takes a long time to come to a decision) and low weight for its claimed payload. It also has a good PA routine.  The downside is that the spring loaded worms have some issues. The spring loading can be worked against by long OTAs which are still well below the payload maximum. The loading also seems to weaken over time. I also feel that the worm is too exposed. Get some dust and grit in there and you won't be getting much tracking accuracy.

Their new mount looks interesting but I wouldn't buy one in the first two years of production myself.

If spending up to £1.5K I would, like Per, go for the latest EQ - Alt Az version of the EQ6. This has fixed most of the niggles affecting the original which was still a very good workhorse, rough and ready but a good soldier.

Olly

Olly

May I ask. If I were looking up to 3K as a budget and my intended payload be within the capacity of the AZEQ6GT (25Kg) and the as yet to be released CEM60 (27Kg). How would you consider the choice? 

Not in which you would choose but how you might consider the different features and potential performance of the two mounts to justify the price difference of 1k.

To me 1k is a lot and the CEM60 would have to be a significant step up in performance to justify the price.

Kevin.

[ollypenrice]

Well, iOptron have made their bed an must, for the moment, lie in it. Their payload claims for the iEQ45 are 'economical with the truth.' I tried and failed to use our TEC140 (well below the limit) on the mount for visual use. The EQ6 can happily image with it. They chose to specify a weight and if the OTA is short their weight might pass muster, but it's optimistic. It won't carry the TEC, full stop. So they invite us to judge their new mount in the light of previous claims. And that means, Beware the payload claim.

The new mount is impressive on paper. They do seem to be a brand set upon improvement. What I've seen of the spec looks good. It might be great. Does that satisfy you? It wouldn't satisfy me, I must admit, but I'm licking my wounds after taking a chance on a different new mount. If you do take a punt on it be sure to buy from a dealer with an absolutely no nonsense returns policy.

If the CEM60 does what it says on the tin it's a grand well spent. That is pretty clear, I'd say. It also contains the potentially fatal two letter word...

Olly

[lensman57]

I don't like the spring loaded worm drive that iOptron use to be honest - I'd rather see better engineering to alleviate mesh issues. Having GPS is a bit of a novelty for most people as unless you regularly visit different sites, you'll probably only use it once and it is very slow to pick up the satellites in my experience.

The CEM (Chinese Equatorial Mount) is an interesting departure from the normal GEM (German Equatorial Mount) and I applaud their originality but it is not an earth-shattering development.

The HEQ5 and NEQ6 still have no equal in their price bracket but the smaller sized mounts are competing with iOptron's sleeker-designed counterparts and face more of a challenge.

Hi Steve,

I read somrwhere that the "new"  CEM is just a rehash the old English Cross Axis mount. I guess that there are not many true new ideas around anymore.

Happy new year to all,

A.G

[StarryEyed]

Thanks all.

I guess I will pick up an AZEQ6 and wait six months on anything else until there has been a shake down so to speak of the recent offerings or just keep saving.

Kevin

[melsky]

I must say I find the ieq45 a joy to use, I'm always mobile when I'm imaging so the fact it's a lot lighter than the equivalent skywatcher is important for me. The gps always locks on in less than a couple of minutes and polar finding display works brilliantly. I never bother setting up the GoTo as I usually only image one target a night, I chose a known star near to my target and let the scope slew to it (it's usually a degree or so off) I centre the star manually and then select "sync to target" focus up the camera whilst it's pointing at something bright (very important when shooting with the HA clip filter in) before selecting my target on the handset. It works well for me with a small refractor but admittedly is a bit of a handful with the mn190 on board .

Mel

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[lensman57]

I must say I find the ieq45 a joy to use, I'm always mobile when I'm imaging so the fact it's a lot lighter than the equivalent skywatcher is important for me. The gps always locks on in less than a couple of minutes and polar finding display works brilliantly. I never bother setting up the GoTo as I usually only image one target a night, I chose a known star near to my target and let the scope slew to it (it's usually a degree or so off) I centre the star manually and then select "sync to target" focus up the camera whilst it's pointing at something bright (very important when shooting with the HA clip filter in) before selecting my target on the handset. It works well for me with a small refractor but admittedly is a bit of a handful with the mn190 on board .

Mel

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 Hi,

I have seen the mount in my local shop and I must say that is seems to be well engineered and has a better finish and fittings than the SW mounts, I am not totally convinced by the payload claims but then again with a small refractor or NEWT and a CCD camera it does not make a lot of  difference I guess. You have a very nice set of gear BTW.

Regards,

A.G

[ollypenrice]

I must say I find the ieq45 a joy to use, I'm always mobile when I'm imaging so the fact it's a lot lighter than the equivalent skywatcher is important for me. The gps always locks on in less than a couple of minutes and polar finding display works brilliantly. I never bother setting up the GoTo as I usually only image one target a night, I chose a known star near to my target and let the scope slew to it (it's usually a degree or so off) I centre the star manually and then select "sync to target" focus up the camera whilst it's pointing at something bright (very important when shooting with the HA clip filter in) before selecting my target on the handset. It works well for me with a small refractor but admittedly is a bit of a handful with the mn190 on board .

Mel

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Hi Mel,

Will the 45 carry the MN190? That's quite a beast.

AG, interesting. I had never come across the Cross Axis mount. I knew of the English Mount (AKA yoke) which does away with counterwieghts, tracks past the meridian, but can't reach close to the pole.

Olly

[Zakalwe]

also have to say that iOptron take note of customer feedback and are continuously improving their products unlike SW  who expect the customer to do it.

IMHO, I think that that criticism is a bit unfair. The AZ EQ6, for example,  addresses pretty much every bone of contention that users had with the original EQ6- power connector, poor altitude alignment, wobbly counterweight bar, poor saddle.

[Davey-T]

IMHO, I think that that criticism is a bit unfair. The AZ EQ6, for example,  addresses pretty much every bone of contention that users had with the original EQ6- power connector, poor altitude alignment, wobbly counterweight bar, poor saddle.

But the iEQ45 is the same basic mount and the improvements such as finer belts and wheels are available to upgrade it.

You forgot bendy bolts

Dave

[si@nite]

The eq8 is new so theres no way id jump on the band wagon yet, at least till all the teething problems have been sorted out, which will be at some point in the future im sure!

[lensman57]

Hi Mel,

Will the 45 carry the MN190? That's quite a beast.

AG, interesting. I had never come across the Cross Axis mount. I knew of the English Mount (AKA yoke) which does away with counterwieghts, tracks past the meridian, but can't reach close to the pole.

Olly

Hi Olly,

I think that these are just refinements of the "Yoke" model at the end.

Regards,

A.G

[lensman57]

IMHO, I think that that criticism is a bit unfair. The AZ EQ6, for example,  addresses pretty much every bone of contention that users had with the original EQ6- power connector, poor altitude alignment, wobbly counterweight bar, poor saddle.

I think that the AZ EQ6 is the best buy in the SW line up, a bargain considering the price of the EQ8 . I also think that above £2000.00 it is best to save, borrow or steal and go fo a 10 Micron mount. Yes it will cost over 5 times the price of an AZ EQ6 but it is probably a mount for life and with that kind of tracking accuracy who'd need guiding.

Regards,

A.G

[Davey-T]

I think that the AZ EQ6 is the best buy in the SW line up, a bargain considering the price of the EQ8 . I also think that above £2000.00 it is best to save, borrow or steal and go fo a 10 Micron mount. Yes it will cost over 5 times the price of an AZ EQ6 but it is probably a mount for life and with that kind of tracking accuracy who'd need guiding.

Regards,

A.G

Yes totally agree, am saving for 10 Micron as we speak, I blame Per

Dave

[ollypenrice]

Yes, Mr Per is an unsettling sort of chap! (We know each other well, so this is friendly, rest assured.) Yes, the 10 Micron is a piece of work, all right, but for the price of guidng the Mesu is very competent indeed at a considerable saving. Guiding doesn't bug me but it would be nice not to do it. I'd like to lose the flip as well.

What a problem these mounts are!

Olly

[Marki]

I centre the star manually and then select "sync to target"  .

Mel

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Single best thing about the Nova handset system - simplicity itself. Wish my Synscan could do that :-).