ADM or Altair Astro TMS saddle plate upgrade ?

[emadmoussa]

For £25 more the Altair Astro dual saddle seems a better more rigid saddle upgrade than the ADM version. Can't be certain, I stand corrected.

[hunterknox]

I've got an ADM dual saddle and can't fault it. Not sure about the dual saddles but I find the ADM vixen saddles to be better than the Altair ones. I had to file down one of my vixen dovetails to make it fit an Altair clamp.

[emadmoussa]

I dont know, I am just exploring which would be a better opion.

[r3i]

Another +1 for the ADM dual saddle - I've had one for 3 years and it has been excellent.

Haven't had any experience of the Altair offering so can't comment on that one - it does look quite smart though.

Whichever you get, it's definitely a worthwhile upgrade IMHO - the much larger gripping length that they provide over the stock saddle has got to be a goood thing.

[Jessun]

The Altair system is very good, easy to work with. The only downside I've noticed is that the anodising fades rather quickly. I have some blue parts, and they're very light blue now...

/Jesper

[emadmoussa]

The Altair system is very good, easy to work with. The only downside I've noticed is that the anodising fades rather quickly. I have some blue parts, and they're very light blue now...

/Jesper

If I'm getting one, It'll be the silver one at least the paint won't tarnish and it'll fit better on a white mount.

[emadmoussa]

OK, I decided to go with the ADM version - Thanks to Steve from FLO who cleared things for me. Cheaper with the same quality...

[Sleepy Kiki]

another vote for the ADM saddle here, best thing I got for my HEQ5

[FLO]

OK, I decided to go with the ADM version - Thanks to Steve from FLO who cleared things for me. Cheaper with the same quality...

That was my colleague SteveB. He didn't say "Cheaper with the same quality" (he only advised you regarding availability). Nobody at FLO would say that. ADM sells because of it's performance, not it's price. We believe ADM saddles are 'better' than the competition.

Apologies if that appears pedantic but I think it is an important distinction to make.

Steve

[E621Keith]

I had a ADM dual saddle for a short while and have a set of Vixen clamp on my Skytee. ADM's Losmandy clamp is very good, but their Vixen clamps feels too shallow. The depth of the ADM Vixen clamp is similar to that of a Losmandy clamp. It still clamps solid, but I prefer deeper clamps for Vixen dovetails. This is because a dovetail is less likely to slip out of a deep clamp than a shallow clamp when you mount the scope. It's also easier to position a dovetail in a deep clamp. This is particularly important when you mount large scope, because the clamp and the dovetail can be obscured by the scope itself, so you have to rely on touch to tell you whether the dovetail is in the grove.

If you uses Losmandy type saddle, then go for the ADM. If you use Vixen dovetail, you should spend more time researching the other options.

Note: Shallow Vixen compression clamp is not unique to ADM. It's a problem for many other brands too.

[emadmoussa]

That was my colleague SteveB. He didn't say "Cheaper with the same quality" (he only advised you regarding availability). Nobody at FLO would say that. ADM sells because of it's performance, not it's price. We believe ADM saddles are 'better' than the competition.

Apologies if that appears pedantic but I think it is an important distinction to make.

Steve

No, he didn't say that. It was my conclusion. I spoke to Steve a week ago as well and got the information I wanted, hence the decision today.

[emadmoussa]

I had a ADM dual saddle for a short while and have a set of Vixen clamp on my Skytee. ADM's Losmandy clamp is very good, but their Vixen clamps feels too shallow. The depth of the ADM Vixen clamp is similar to that of a Losmandy clamp. It still clamps solid, but I prefer deeper clamps for Vixen dovetails. This is because a dovetail is less likely to slip out of a deep clamp than a shallow clamp when you mount the scope. It's also easier to position a dovetail in a deep clamp. This is particularly important when you mount large scope, because the clamp and the dovetail can be obscured by the scope itself, so you have to rely on touch to tell you whether the dovetail is in the grove.

If you uses Losmandy type saddle, then go for the ADM. If you use Vixen dovetail, you should spend more time researching the other options.

Note: Shallow Vixen compression clamp is not unique to ADM. It's a problem for many other brands too.

My 6" refractor uses a vixen dovetail and it sits comfortably on the NEQ6 own vixen bit...I'm thinking about changing the dovetail to Losmandy (wide). I replaced the Vixen dovetail on C11 with a Farpoint 3" Losmandy...it makes a hec of a difference. I suppose with the ADM saddle, I'll have even more support.

[E621Keith]

Yes, a Losmandy dovetail would be better. The shallow clamp problem is unique to Vixen clamps, because a Vixen dovetails are narrower. I feel nervous when I mount my C925(Vixen dovetail) onto the ADM saddle, but not when I mount my 5" refractor (Losmandy dovetail) onto the IOptron or Geoptik Losmandy saddle.

[FLO]

The shallow clamp problem is unique to Vixen clamps, because a Vixen dovetails are narrower.

Are you sure Keith? I have just measured the depth of some of the ADM Vixen and ADM Losmandy-type saddles here on our shelves and the Vixen saddles are the same or slightly deeper than the Losmandy-type saddles. The same applies to the dual-saddles.

Steve

[FLO]

Apologies for the poor picture quality (I used a phone-cam) but it does show the depth of the Vixen-type v Losmandy-type saddles

[E621Keith]

Are you sure Keith? I have just measured the depth of some of the ADM Vixen and ADM Losmandy-type saddles here on our shelves and the Vixen saddles are the same or slightly deeper than the Losmandy-type saddles. The same applies to the dual-saddles.

Steve

My comments was mostly based on my experience with the ADM Skytee Vixen clamp and my C925. I only had the dual saddle for a week before I returned it due to a problem with the pluck.

The ADM clamp is very shallow compared to a standard Vixen clamp found in a GP/GPDX mount and in a TS Vixen clamp (similar to the AstroTrac Vixen clamp). I just don't think the scope is as secured in the ADM clamp before the clamp is tightened. This is most problematic when I mount a larger OTA which needs to be lifted with both hands and have the dovetail positioned away from me. Since the dovetail is on the opposite side of the OTA, I have to mount the OTA and tighten the clamps by touch only. This is much harder with a shallow clamp than with a deep clamp. The OTA can be 'drop' into a deep clamp, where the deep flange will guide the dovetail into position. In comparison the dovetail needs to be carefully placed into the shallow clamp and it is either in or not in, you don't get the self aligning property of a deep clamp.

After the clamp is tighten, the ADM saddle is stronger than the single bolt clamps. The shallow flange is mostly a problem during setup with large OTA.

As I said in my earlier post, shallow Vixen clamp is not unique to ADM. I've the same problem in my Geoptik saddle, even though the Geoptik is slightly deeper, it's still not as deep as a standard Vixen clamp.

[FLO]

Generally speaking, short saddles are deep because they don't have long clamping surfaces and have only one clamp

HTH,

Steve

[laser_jock99]

The saddle upgrade is very worthwhile for scope stability. If you have any doubts this picture of a standard Skywatcher clamp beside the Altair Astro clamp shows how more much substantial they are.

[swag72]

I upgraded my saddle, but went for a Geoptik one as I was stuck to get AA or ADM ones out here for a reasonable cost. So far I've been very pleased with both the Geoptik saddle and Losmandy. A good upgrage in my book even if you've only got a little weight on it.

[emadmoussa]

OK, yesterday I received my ADM saddle from FLO. Excellent service as usual!

You can see that it's significantly bigger and heavier than the standard NEQ6 saddle. By the way, I've got the new Losmandy/Vixen NEQ6 saddle. I was advised before that the new saddle should do just fine with heavy telescopes like the C11. I beg to differ...so read on please.

Attaching it was simple enough. The only issue I had is deciding whether or not the ADM saddle was aligned and levelled correctly on the mount. I had to loosen and adjust the plate several times until - I think - it was sorted, at least in my eyes. The last thing I need was cone error.

My first test was my 6" refractor which happened to use a vixen style dovetail. While my standard saddle gripped it firmly, I still had some vibration especially during slewing. I never felt the telescope was comfortable or sufficiently safe. The ADM plate definitely made a difference. Now I've got more contact with the dovetail and a grip like a vice. I can swing the telescope back and forth now with my eyes closed

The C11 couldn't do better. I recently changed the orange dovetail with a wide Losmandy dovetail, which even with this stability of the scope noticeably improved. With the introduction of the ADM saddle...well, I can say that for the first time I was confidently and safely spinning the telescope around smoothly without any signs of fatigue or wobbling. I think the ADM saddle and the Farpoint Losmandy dovetail are a match made in heaven for heavy telescopes.

If I'm to suggest an improvement I would definitely ask for slightly bigger knobs for better grip. While the standard saddle knobs are made of plastic, they felt more grip-able. Bigger knobs and probably some rubber coating will make the ADM saddle absolutely perfect.

Funny enough, the reason I decided to take the plunge and buy the plate was the broken plastic knob on my standard saddle. I received the dovetail around 11 am and then about 10 minutes later Optic Star emailed saying that OVL have sent me a replacement bolt..DOH!!

All in all, I'm happy with the product and I can see it's a keeper. Since there aren't many photos out there, here are some:

[astrofox]

One thing to watch out for. Various makes have differing standard as to what constitutes a Vixen dovetail. My W,O. mounting plate had an extra ridge alaong its base which needed machining off before it would slide into the Altair Astra saddle. Seems we need a defined standard on sizes as to what exactly is a "Vixen" dovetail.

Doesn't seem to be a problem when you use a lasmandy plate/saddle.

[emadmoussa]

One thing to watch out for. Various makes have differing standard as to what constitutes a Vixen dovetail. My W,O. mounting plate had an extra ridge alaong its base which needed machining off before it would slide into the Altair Astra saddle. Seems we need a defined standard on sizes as to what exactly is a "Vixen" dovetail.

Doesn't seem to be a problem when you use a lasmandy plate/saddle.

Thankfully all my 4 scopes have compatible dovetails. You're right about the vixen dovetail, the vixen one that came with the C11 is slightly different from the one fitted on my TS 6" frac.

[cgarry]

I have an ADM dual saddle for my CGEM-DX mount and the fact that if you open them too far they spring apart without warning dropping bits onto the floor is a real pain. This is an issue for me as I need to open up the saddle fully because of the way I mount my C14 and I think that it is only luck up to now that I have not lost one of the springs through the gaps in my decking.

A big design improvement for these would be to make the tightening knobs captive.

Cheers,

Chris

[emadmoussa]

I have an ADM dual saddle for my CGEM-DX mount and the fact that if you open them too far they spring apart without warning dropping bits onto the floor is a real pain. This is an issue for me as I need to open up the saddle fully because of the way I mount my C14 and I think that it is only luck up to now that I have not lost one of the springs through the gaps in my decking.

A big design improvement for these would be to make the tightening knobs captive.

Cheers,

Chris

I would add the possibility of giving user the option of weather to tighten/loosen the bolts together or individually.

[kirkster501]

I am thinking of going for the Altair version.  It looks better to me.