New Atik 490EX

[dmahon]

I was talking 694 vs 814 chips, not SX 694 vs Atik 460. Now you mention it, I believe the cooling on the similarly shaped 694 and 460 is the same (25 degrees below ambient). As to software, if you have no intention of ever using it, it makes no difference.

I went with SX originally because a camera came up second hand at the right price. After that, their support and customer service was second to none, so I stuck with them.

PS - no problem with binning either of my SX imaging cameras.

[ollypenrice]

Both SX and Atik offer excellent after sales service. There is no doubt whatever about this. It's good to know.

Olly

[FLO]

Our first delivery of Atik 490EX cameras is due tomorrow. Indeed we will be the 'first' Atik dealer to receive stock

If you have a 490EX on backorder with us we will dispatch it tomorrow or Friday for delivery Friday or Monday.

Thank-you for your patience,

Steve

[x6gas]

Yeay

Now how do I hide it from the wife?

[RobH]

By the way, we find we can't bin the SX H36. It produces too many artefacts, notably triangular shadows next to stars.

Olly

That sounds like an artifact produced by the anti-blooming gate Olly. I had a similar issue with my H18, except it was lines, not triangles.

On the H18, there was a small screw that you could adjust to deal with this.

Cheers

Rob

[ollypenrice]

That sounds like an artifact produced by the anti-blooming gate Olly. I had a similar issue with my H18, except it was lines, not triangles.

On the H18, there was a small screw that you could adjust to deal with this.

Cheers

Rob

Thanks for this info, Rob. It may be a sortable issue but... Yves contacted the ever helpful Terry at SX and was told he could adjust a potentiometer. He's an electronics graduate engineer so this didn't bother him but it didn't work. We reduced (marginally) the dark triangles but lost response when unbinned. It fell to me to take Yves' five grand camera to bits and return to the original settings, something which made me nervous... I have a degree in English literature!!!

I'm resisting the temptation to state my preferences with regard to CCD camera manufacturers.

Olly

[RobH]

Thanks for this info, Rob. It may be a sortable issue but... Yves contacted the ever helpful Terry at SX and was told he could adjust a potentiometer. He's an electronics graduate engineer so this didn't bother him but it didn't work. We reduced (marginally) the dark triangles but lost response when unbinned. It fell to me to take Yves' five grand camera to bits and return to the original settings, something which made me nervous... I have a degree in English literature!!!

I'm resisting the temptation to state my preferences with regard to CCD camera manufacturers.

Olly

Adjusting mine had a small effect Olly, but eventually SX adjusted it one of the times the camera was back with them.

My preference, any day, is Atik.

The 460 I have now is a stunningly sensitive and quiet camera, and worked perfectly out of the box, the same goes for my venerable 16HR.

Both the SX main mono cameras I've had have been very dissapointing I'm afraid, the H18 especially so, although my 2 lodestar cameras are excellent.

Terry at SX is wonderful, and gives great after sales service, but with Atik I've never needed this, whereas I seemed to need it all the time with the SX cams.

Cheers

Rob

[Chris]

I have an almost related question which isn't too much of a diversion if you don't mind Steve? The Atik 320E was mentioned earlier and I've been wondering why this 3 series camera is priced higher than the newer 420L? Will there be any price adjustment there? or are the prices of both likely to go up?

I only ask because the 490 would be divorce making for me but the 320/420 would be a good and realistic move up if I find I'm converted from DSLR with my testing the water Brightstar Mammut

Regards

Chris

[FLO]

Good question Chris.

We find it difficult to justify the 320E and 420L. They have high resolution but they most definitely don't have the noise and sensitivity characteristics of the 314L+, which is considerably better. If your budget is around £8-900 then my advice is save some more for a 314L+ or buy a secondhand 314L or H9.

And don't be persuaded a Chinese brand will allow you to have your cake and eat it, they are cheap for a reason.

HTH,

Steve

[ollypenrice]

I agree with Rob and Steve above. Actually I do beef about the Lodestar as well, good as it is. It's those darned cable connectors. They are terribly flimsy and so close together that many of the proprietory cables that you buy won't actually fit because they have slightly too much plastic around the end.

The full frame Atik out-cools the full frame SX here by as much as 7 degrees.

Olly

[FLO]

Our first delivery of Atik 490EX cameras is due tomorrow. Indeed we will be the 'first' Atik dealer to receive stock

They have arrived

All backorders will be processed and dispatched today for delivery tomorrow.

Thank-you for your patience

[Gina]

Somenthing you might just get a whiff of Steve being the biggest reseller of Atik cameras I'm just wondering if Atik might bring out a guide camera sometime. I'm using a QHY5 ATM which is reasonable enough but something more sensitive would be nice. I know virtually everyone uses the SX Lodestar and grumbles about the connections. I would love to use an Atik camera - I have this feeling that they would be so much better, but their cheapest seems to be the Titan. Even more £££££ than the Lodestar. Mind you there is one possibility - use one with the OAG on the MN190 and then when I'm using the ED80 I could use it for imaging with lenses as a "two eyed" rig. But is the Titan suitable as a guide camera?

[FLO]

Somenthing you might just get a whiff of Steve being the biggest reseller of Atik cameras

I guess I have been milking that fact a bit...

... just wondering if Atik might bring out a guide camera sometime. I'm using a QHY5 ATM which is reasonable enough but something more sensitive would be nice.

I was discussing precisely this with them this morning. They receive a lot of requests for a guide camera and they are looking to produce one but they probably would not be able to produce a reliable guide camera that retails for the same price as a QHY5... I have no doubt they could produce something to compete with the Lodestar but the Lodestar is a legend and is already well established. Other than the rear connection it would be difficult to improve upon a Lodestar.

... is the Titan suitable as a guide camera?

Yes, the Titan makes a very good guide camera but it would be difficult to justify it's cost if you only used it for guiding.

Personally, from a marketing perspective, I think Atik need a well made dedicated guide camera.

C'mon Atik. Please

Steve

[Gina]

Thank you Steve

[Chris]

Good question Chris.

We find it difficult to justify the 320E and 420L. They have high resolution but they most definitely don't have the noise and sensitivity characteristics of the 314L+, which is considerably better. If your budget is around £8-900 then my advice is save some more for a 314L+ or buy a secondhand 314L or H9.

And don't be persuaded a Chinese brand will allow you to have your cake and eat it, they are cheap for a reason.

HTH,

Steve

Thanks Steve, I didn't realise there was a big difference in the noise characteristics or sensitivity, I'll skip the the 420L then (bar a bit of a price drop) in favour of the 314L+. My "testing the water" Mammut will give me 2.9 arcsec/pixel with my ED80 which may prove to be a touch too blocky for the long run plus it would rule out binning for my RGB, hence why I was thinking of the 420L initially:).

Cheers

Chris

@ Gina - I've heard good things about the Atik16ic being a great guide camera so I reckon the Titan should make for an excellant guider plus short FL imager:)

[AlistairHowie]

After a bit of digging on the internet I managed to get hold of comparative, absolute QE numbers for the chips used in the Atik 490EX, 460EX and the 314L+ for those of you who are interested. Details in post #16 here ... http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/182243-atik-490ex/ Overall QE seems comparable between the 460 and 490, but is markedly better on the 460 when looking at each of the R, G and B curves. How does that work?

[FLO]

How does that work?

I don't know. I have learned not to read too much into third-party charts. So much depends on who produces them, how they were produced and why they were produced. Only when you have actual Sony data-sheets can you draw meaningful comparisons and conclusions. At least that is how we see it

Steve

[Tim]

Gina, the connection on the back of the lodestar isn't THAT bad. A lot of the hot air about them is promulgated by individuals actively promoting an alternative. Not to say it couldn't be improved, but a simple cable tie or velcro strap makes it highly unlikely that the cable will pull and loosen the USB mini socket. I can send you a pic if you like? Knowing how capable you are, you could probably rustle up a genius solution anyway

[IanL]

After a bit of digging on the internet I managed to get hold of comparative, absolute QE numbers for the chips used in the Atik 490EX, 460EX and the 314L+ for those of you who are interested. Details in post #16 here ... http://stargazerslou...243-atik-490ex/ Overall QE seems comparable between the 460 and 490, but is markedly better on the 460 when looking at each of the R, G and B curves. How does that work?

Bear in mind that this is from data sheets from a manufacturer of industrial cameras. The black QE charts are for the monochrome versions of their industrial cameras and may be somewhat useful for comparing astro CCDS with the same chips, but the Sony datasheets would be better. The black QE charts for the 490EX and the 460EX are as close to identical as makes no difference, the 314L+ chip is approx 10% worse.

The RGB charts are showing the response for the colour versions of their cameras, i.e. with a bayer matrix of some sort. They are showing the net response for the red, green and blue filtered sensor elements. Clearly each of the filters has a pretty wide bandwidth. These charts are no use for the purpose you are trying to use them for, since the Atik responses would depend on the QE of the mono chip plus the bandwidth of your own filters.

[FLO]

Sony do have datasheets with the information in chart form but they are released only to those in the industry and only after they have signed a non-disclosure agreement (we haven't seen them).

[kirkster501]

Wonder if FLO will do a 490/Filter Wheel/Filter kit?

If not what bits would it need?

[Earl]

Sony do have datasheets with the information in chart form but they are released only to those in the industry and only after they have signed a non-disclosure agreement (we haven't seen them).

NDA for tech spec.... thats somewhat shocking and suspicious.

[FLO]

NDA for tech spec.... thats somewhat shocking and suspicious.

Apparently it is normal practice for Sony and a number of other CCD manufacturers, they supply the full datasheets to product developers after they sign a NDA.

[FLO]

Wonder if FLO will do a 490/Filter Wheel/Filter kit?

We'll see what we can do

[kirkster501]

We'll see what we can do

Nice. I might have come into some "mad money" in a couple of months, a will is in process of sorting itself out. The type of money that should be blown immediately