I think i'm going to move abroad

[swag72]

I think many become transfixed by what they perceive to be a more idealistic lifestyle of blue skies, beaches, barbecue summers, clear skies etc. Everywhere else has there own share of issues, just different ones. And peoples perceptions are shaped by holidays overseas, not living there as a resident. The two are utterly different.

This is a good point indeed - But I have found that life is indeed full of blue skies, barbecue summers and endless days in the swimming pool!!

Throughout life you make choices and moving to Spain was something that we had planned for perhaps 8-9 years before we did it. This enabled us to have realistic expectations. The grass is absolutely greener in this part of Europe, for me anyway, and you'd have to drag me back kicking and screaming to the UK, for now. I accept that life will deal me a raw hand at some stage, but who knows what is around the corner. I didn't want to spend my life regretting that I never tried it. I made the best decision I could, with the information I had at the time and that can not be changed.

If around the corner things turn sour, I can always say that at least I tried it. Had I stayed in UK I would always have regretted not trying it.

[kirkster501]

This is a good point indeed - But I have found that life is indeed full of blue skies, barbecue summers and endless days in the swimming pool!!

Throughout life you make choices and moving to Spain was something that we had planned for perhaps 8-9 years before we did it. This enabled us to have realistic expectations. The grass is absolutely greener in this part of Europe, for me anyway, and you'd have to drag me back kicking and screaming to the UK, for now. I accept that life will deal me a raw hand at some stage, but who knows what is around the corner. I didn't want to spend my life regretting that I never tried it. I made the best decision I could, with the information I had at the time and that can not be changed.

If around the corner things turn sour, I can always say that at least I tried it. Had I stayed in UK I would always have regretted not trying it.

Good for you Sara - very pleased it worked out for you And work out it does for many others too. Sorry if I came across as being a negative nay-Sayer in my two posts above - just highlighting some of the issues. I have lived overseas for many years but back in Blighty now. I was sharing some of the issues I have seen first hand.

[swag72]

Sorry if I came across as being a negative nay-Sayer in my two posts above - just highlighting some of the issues.

I think that the points you made were absolutely valid. It is easy to think that in living abroad life will be one big holiday - It rarely is. A bit of realism should always be remembered as a means of staying grounded. It's too easy to get carried away when you don't think it all through.

[JB80]

I quoted just parts of the posts below but I think the posts as a whole make excellent points.

Massively frustrating though it is with our weather, you have to remember that astronomy is a hobby. True its a passion too but an hobby nonetheless. You have to go for 100% the right reasons.

You are right here and while probably all of us can sympathise with expressing a want to move to clear skies I'm not certain that is the only reason people would make that move even if it is the common motive on an astronomy forum.

Again you are right with all the other considerations people should think of, it is not a flippant choice and people shouldn't treat it as one. For us while the weather here is a big part our family and it's future comes first and climate certainly does play a role in that, in our case my wife is probably more vocal on the want to leave to a better climate than I am and I'm the one with the weather dependent past time. That said we would consider a move to colder climates(North) simply because the weather is more dynamic if the right opportunity arose.

I didn't want to spend my life regretting that I never tried it.

If around the corner things turn sour, I can always say that at least I tried it.

It's too easy to get carried away when you don't think it all through.

This is something I agree with all my heart on, "if you don't at least try".

Maybe it is easier for me as I have already made a life changing long distance move so a second move doesn't seem so bad. I have moved once before and it was the best decision of my life, the next may not be so great but do I really want to stay in a place that makes you feel so down and makes setting up your future harder than it needs to be?

Like you said it needs to be thought through thoroughly, don't get carried away and research just what it will take to make a move possible. It really isn't as easy as it may seem but I feel if you are having these thoughts of moving and aren't happy then whilst it may prove difficult it will prove more than worthwhile if you go about it correctly.

[laser_jock99]

.....remember that astronomy is a hobby. True its a passion too but an hobby nonetheless.

There's a fine line between 'hobby' and mental illness.....

(Dave Barry)

[Pig]

I think the entire globe is one big mental hospital I am the only sane one in it I think

[Macavity]

There's a fine line between 'hobby' and mental illness.....

Ah, but give me a "crazy" astronomer or a "hobbyist" any day. We'd get on just fine?

In my small cul-de-sac, I have a neighbour who *insists* on mowing everyone's lawn, doing all their gardening, and their DIY. He's just added walking dogs AND children. Unfortunately it doesn't stop there. He *knows* what time we all get up and go to bed. Go shopping, he's waiting on his driveway later, to check what you bought! Forget to put your bin out? He's banging on your door at 10 p.m. to remind you! Go away for the weekend, he paints your fence bright Orange or plants Daffodil Bulbs / Dwarf Conifers in your lawn. Everyone "moans" about him, but...

Oh (Atheist) God, sometimes I wish I could escape the overcrowded (crazed) UK!

Forgive me the (part-ironic) rant? I do think, lack of personal SPACE, is a *big* issue...

[Stargazer_00]

That's awesome. Clearly mental. I don't think I could help myself not winding someone like that up.

[JB80]

Ah, but give me a "crazy" astronomer or a "hobbyist" any day. We'd get on just fine?

In my small cul-de-sac, I have a neighbour who *insists* on mowing everyone's lawn, doing all their gardening, and their DIY. He's just added walking dogs AND children. Unfortunately it doesn't stop there. He *knows* what time we all get up and go to bed. Go shopping, he's waiting on his driveway later, to check what you bought! Forget to put your bin out? He's banging on your door at 10 p.m. to remind you! Go away for the weekend, he paints your fence bright Orange or plants Daffodil Bulbs / Dwarf Conifers in your lawn. Everyone "moans" about him, but...

Oh (Atheist) God, sometimes I wish I could escape the overcrowded (crazed) UK!

Forgive me the (part-ironic) rant? I do think, lack of personal SPACE, is a *big* issue...

I shouldn't laugh but I hate dwarf conifers.

That would drive me bonkers, I suppose he means well though.

[JamesF]

In my small cul-de-sac, I have a neighbour who *insists* on mowing everyone's lawn, doing all their gardening, and their DIY. He's just added walking dogs AND children. Unfortunately it doesn't stop there. He *knows* what time we all get up and go to bed. Go shopping, he's waiting on his driveway later, to check what you bought! Forget to put your bin out? He's banging on your door at 10 p.m. to remind you! Go away for the weekend, he paints your fence bright Orange or plants Daffodil Bulbs / Dwarf Conifers in your lawn. Everyone "moans" about him, but...

Nutty as a fruit cake, clearly. In some parts of the UK that sort of behaviour would get you sectioned.

I do think, lack of personal SPACE, is a *big* issue...

I genuinely believe this to be true. As the UK population has grown, houses (and gardens in particular) have become smaller and smaller, more people have become squashed into ever smaller spaces. We rented a house for a short while whilst we were looking to buy down here; a brand new 3 bedroom end-terrace with a "master" bedroom so small that there wasn't room for the built-in wardrobe doors to open fully if there was a double bed in the room. The garden was about four metres on a side, perhaps smaller. The adjoining house (a mirror image of ours) was occupied by a family of four, the children being two boys getting close to leaving school, and a large dog. I really can't bring myself to believe that it's good for one's mental health to live like that. Everyone needs an escape some time, whether it's to a shed, garage, workshop, just to sit in the garden, and have a bit of space and privacy. When being cooped up in a tiny space with no privacy or space of one's own it's not entirely surprising that going to the pub and drinking oneself into oblivion or committing random acts of anti-social behaviour look like acceptable options.

James

[DaveS]

Well, my underlying situation is the need to downsize when I retire, mainly to release equity so I will be able to heat and eat, as they say. The question then becomes "where to?"

So either look for somewhere small / cheap in the UK, preferably with dark skies and viable weather or overseas with the same conditions.

Small / cheap in the UK also unfortunately can mean unsalubrious with dodgy neighbours.

Granted astronomy is "only" a hobby, but if it can be made more enjoyable by the move then that's one more reason to select an area.

Tha Canaries are:

1) Much further south, therefore I could see more of the interresting southern sky which would stil get dark in summer,

2) Possesed of a much better climate than the UK, and

3) Still in the EU (Assuming we still are by then), therefore no visa needed and residency less of a hassle.

Make no mistake, if it wasn't for too high a bar to entry I would high-tail it to NZ. My cousin says she can see the milky way from her garden in Hamilton, and I'm sure I could find somewhere even darker.

[Stargazer_00]

Small / cheap in the UK also unfortunately can mean unsalubrious with dodgy neighbours.

Not necessarily, up north and rural could put you in prime astronomy location for cheap. Depends how close to civilisation you want to live

[Paul M]

Tha Canaries are:

1) Much further south, therefore I could see more of the interresting southern sky which would stil get dark in summer,

2) Possesed of a much better climate than the UK, and

3) Still in the EU (Assuming we still are by then), therefore no visa needed and residency less of a hassle.

I agree.

If I got half the chance I'd be off to Tenerife for good, but I'd have to win the lottery.

Although I took out a private "Bomb Proof" pension with the Pru 30 years ago it's practically worthless now. And I've only been in a company pension for 2 1/2 years. So my chances of retiring any time soon are nil. I'll be 50 next year and at that point I expect to have to work another 20 years

We can easily afford to move to Tenerife but I'd need to work and there is very little work there. I've been in the building trade virtually all my life and a while back considered setting up over there as a tradesman to the ex-pat community. A bit of research showed that, even before the recession, there was a glut of people already trying that. All advertising their services for next to nothing. Well, at the time that was the exact same rat race I was in in the UK. Self employed electrician working hand to mouth

Both my parents are gone now and our son is in a good job and saving for his own place. I have no ties here. But both of the wife's parents are still going strong although the FIL is showing signs of frailty now. So if we had made the move she'd be full of anxiety about her parents in the coming years.

So although the attraction to Tenerife is stronger than ever our prospects of moving there are no better than before.

It makes our holidays all the more fun

[Macavity]

I'm firmly with "Ex-Pat of Alicante" - Whatever the (newspaper) Topic

(no politics here please!) s/he has the "solution" for the UK, right?

Many ways, I do miss the ex-Pat scene - Integrating into cultures...

[Pig]

Maybe a move into space could be on the cards soon

[ubertank]

If I didn't have a daughter with a previous partner, I'd seriously consider a move.

I have an Uncle in Australia who I could have moved with when he emigrated, but couldn't be apart from my daughter. The weather in the UK right now is completely ridiculous, but there's so many other aspects of life here these days that I dislike.

I'm 29, but have the tolerance of someone 59 these days.

[kirkster501]

Small / cheap in the UK also unfortunately can mean unsalubrious with dodgy neighbours.

What makes you think "small / cheap" does not apply in other countries? Drunkeness/Chavs/pondlife exists everywhere, rest assured. And not always in cheap abodes either. People are the issue, not property prices.

[Stargazer_00]

People are the issue, I agree there

Perhaps what I meant to say was that if I were to sell my house here (20 miles north of london) I could probably afford something exactly what I want up north.

remote.

[laser_jock99]

Ah, but give me a "crazy" astronomer or a "hobbyist" any day. We'd get on just fine?

In my small cul-de-sac, I have a neighbour who *insists* on mowing everyone's lawn, doing all their gardening, and their DIY. He's just added walking dogs AND children. Unfortunately it doesn't stop there. He *knows* what time we all get up and go to bed. Go shopping, he's waiting on his driveway later, to check what you bought! Forget to put your bin out? He's banging on your door at 10 p.m. to remind you! Go away for the weekend, he paints your fence bright Orange or plants Daffodil Bulbs / Dwarf Conifers in your lawn. Everyone "moans" about him, but...

Oh (Atheist) God, sometimes I wish I could escape the overcrowded (crazed) UK!

Forgive me the (part-ironic) rant? I do think, lack of personal SPACE, is a *big* issue...

There's enough material for a sit-com there!

[lukebl]

I'd move abroad, but I don't think anywhere would have me. :-(

[Alastair Rae]

I like the idea of foreign dark skies but it stays in the realm of pipe dreams. Besides, my other half is prepared to move out of London (hurrah!) but not out of Inglaterra.

[kev]

People are the issue, I agree there

Perhaps what I meant to say was that if I were to sell my house here (20 miles north of london) I could probably afford something exactly what I want up north.

remote.

FWIW DONT. We did, from hertfordshire to yorkshire. Dont get me wrong, lovely people up here, and its like being in Britain (as down south) 30 years ago. But, pay here is a fraction of what is is down south and you dont make that up is the lesser cost of living up here. Also jobs are even harder to come by.

We wish we had never moved from a finacial aspect. From all over aspects it was a great move. (With the added expection incidentally of.. dont live on the east coast, the sky is rarely clear!)

[Macavity]

There's enough material for a sit-com there!

It *is* funny. Or rather it was funny. But I have invested heavily in this house as my "retirement" home, built my (lifetime dream!) observatory etc., - Only to find a near neighbour has some sort of "mental health" issue - OCPD, I suspect? I once (reluctantly) accepted his help with building my observatory. He took this as an open invitation to wander onto my property ANY TIME and mess randomly with stuff. Clearly, He had to go!

I asked him cheerfully to "back off a bit" (mate)! But next day, I found him wandering about my back garden without even asking me. I invited him into my kitchen. I asked him (politely) to leave. He became physically intimidating. I said I would call the Police - He laughed in my face. Thankfully, he *did* leave eventually. I was just grateful, for that, and thought little more of it...

I did confide to a few [male] neighbours - They shared that they too had experienced "problems" re. the guy. No details (family forum etc.) but "spying" on wives / kids etc. Yet, to this day, they accept HELP from the guy. And in turn, give him access to the[ir] properties either side of me. Months later, there is no day, I don't now find HIM staring (glowering!) back at me.

The only thing (ON TOPIC!) I can suggest is to be *very* careful, before investing heavily in a "last" home! Maybe *live* there for a while - Learn MORE about neighbours? Not just the weirdos, but can you trust the others? Oddballs don't have to break laws to make others unhappy. I never imagined getting a "same sex" (fellow old git) stalker... Just my luck, darnit.

P.S. Lets not DWELL overly on this! But if anyone has (non-violent) suggestions, PM me?

As a long-time flat-dweller, I have less-than-many experience with dealing with such stuff...

[kirkster501]

I'd rather have another place in Cornwall and saving hard to that end for when I retire in 20 years. Problem is, so does everyone else! Hence property prices are stratospheric.

[Macavity]

Here is a genuine (more chearful!) thought - Having lived both "abroad" and "at home".

With the typical linguistic skills of the average Brit, one can feel a bit isolated in a foreign language community? But I also felt a greater kinship with my fellow country[wo]men as an ex-Pat. Not just in a "bingo and chips" sense! But with the added possibility of enjoying a foreign (multinational, in my case) community, culture... the food(!) - Adapting was FUN.

Ironically, a lesser (though reasonable) knowledge of the language can be a slight advantage. Somehow you don't get involved in "neighbour controversies" (see above)! A bit like being old and "tactically deaf"? You can claim you didn't *quite* understand things - The language, social conventions, minor [traffic] laws... At least for a while!