Atik 314L+ with ED80 questions

[kingboya]

:blink:I have an Atik 314L coming to me very soon and will predominantly be using it on the ed80. I do have a focal reducer too, but I have heard that spacing is an issue potentially. In the package I am also getting the EfW2 with filters.

Should I give it a go firstly without the reducer? Field flattening probably isn't a concern with the small chip I would have thought?

What spacers or adapters will be required?

Thanks

Tony

[Interested]

:blink:I have an Atik 314L coming to me very soon and will predominantly be using it on the ed80. I do have a focal reducer too, but I have heard that spacing is an issue potentially. In the package I am also getting the EfW2 with filters.

Should I give it a go firstly without the reducer? Field flattening probably isn't a concern with the small chip I would have thought?

What spacers or adapters will be required?

Thanks

Tony

If I remember rightly, the chip to front of camera is 12 mm for the 314L+ and 22 mm thickness for the EFW2 = 34 mm.Chip to reducer is usually 56 mm so you are looking at a 22 mm spacer between the filter wheel and reducer. I'm sure someone will be along to correct me soon if I am wrong!

Pete

[ollypenrice]

The reducer will be a big help because F7.5 is seriously slow under UK skies. It's no joke here. You need to find the chip distance for the reducer first, from the vendor's website.

Then add up the following;

Front of camera to chip distance.

Filterwheel thickness.

Approx a mm for the refractive effect of the filter.

This total will be a bit less than the chip distance for the reducer so you need a set of spacers to add the missing distance. You need to check the thread on the back of the reducer and the Atik EFW2 is M54. Whatever spacers you buy need to fit these, of course. Good suppliers know all about this and should sort you out.

A tip; put some boot polish on the fine threads of all these infernal spacers or they will cold weld themselves together for eternity just before you find just the right chip distance...

A small amount af adjustability in the form of nylon shims or lockrings can be arranged and is a good idea.

Olly

Edited March 13, 2013 by ollypenrice

[Gina]

I've used this combination both with and without the FR and have the spacing sorted out.

For using the 0.85x SW FR you need the following :-

• M48 to T2 adapter - Teleskop Express - http://www.optcorp.com/product.aspx?pid=17719&kw=TS-TSM48-T2&st=3
  
• Atik T2 to M54 adapter to fit EFW2 filter wheel - FLO :- http://www.firstlightoptics.com/adaptors/atik-m54-to-m42-t-adapter.html
  
• 11.5mm extra spacing needed to make the 55mm FR to camera sn]ensor distance. I used 8mm and 3mm T2 extension tubes - seems to be near enough. I tried putting a 0.6mm delrin spacer in but there wasn't enough thread on any of the adapters to give a solid attachment.
  

[dmahon]

Approx a mm for the refractive effect of the filter.

Minus a mm isn't it?

[kingboya]

Thank you all very much. I am sure I will have more questions shortly!

[kingboya]

Thank you all very much. I am sure I will have more questions shortly!

[Merlin66]

The thickness of a filter in a converging beam adds close to 1/3 the glass thickness to the focal distance.

Snell's law.

The refracted beam is moved towards the normal axis in the glass and hence has a smaller angle to the optical axis, extending the focus....sketch the light path through the filter and you'll see what I mean.

[andyo]

Hi I am in the process of doing this very thing and have also been in touch with Martin from FLO regarding relevent adapters.Martin informed me they are now having the adapters custom made to attach the EFW2 to the skywatcher focal reducer but I dont know what the spacing will be (M54 to M42x0.75) may be worth an email to them asking for an update.

I did something very similar to Gina but i got my m48 to t2 adapter(m42x0.75) from altair astro link here:-

http://www.altairastro.com/product.php?productid=16569&page=1

This adds 1mm on to the optical train

Flo sell a m54 to t2 adapter low profile link here:

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/adaptors/atik-m54-to-m42-t-adapter.html

This adds 1.3mm on to the optical train

I also got the EFW2 as 22mm and it is 12mm to the camera sensor.

I attached these together and measured the distance I got very similar results to Gina but found I needed 10mm to make the distance to 56.3mm I believe this is close enough.

I got the 10mm spacer from Telescope services the link is here:

http://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p2260_TS

while I believe these measurements to be accurate I cannot confirm these measurements as the focal reducer is not in my possesion at the moment but I will have it back by the weekend and will attach them all together and measure

the distance to confirm.Feel free to PM me on saturday if you want to know the exact distance I get.

[kingboya]

Thank you Andyo

I will pm you Saturday to find out your precise measurements. Thank you everyone for your time in replying!

[Coco]

A tip; put some boot polish on the fine threads of all these infernal spacers or they will cold weld themselves together for eternity just before you find just the right chip distance...

Olly

Damn it...

[ollypenrice]

Damn it...

:BangHead:

Olly

[kingboya]

I am getting confused with the distances from the FR to the chip. Is it 55 or 56 mm?

Secondly, assuming 55mm due to the filter effects, is the following true?

Camera chip to front 12mm--> EFW2 22mm--> M48 to T2 adapter 1mm--> xxmm extension tube--> M54 T2 1.3mm --> FR.

Is this correct? If it is, then 55mm-12mm-22mm-1mm-1.3mm=18.7mm extension tube. You are all talking about extension tubes of approx 10mm?

I am clearly missing something, but I cannot get my head around this!

[kingboya]

Hi I am in the process of doing this very thing and have also been in touch with Martin from FLO regarding relevent adapters.Martin informed me they are now having the adapters custom made to attach the EFW2 to the skywatcher focal reducer but I dont know what the spacing will be (M54 to M42x0.75) may be worth an email to them asking for an update.

I did something very similar to Gina but i got my m48 to t2 adapter(m42x0.75) from altair astro link here:-

http://www.altairast...id=16569&page=1

This adds 1mm on to the optical train

Flo sell a m54 to t2 adapter low profile link here:

http://www.firstligh...-t-adapter.html

This adds 1.3mm on to the optical train

I also got the EFW2 as 22mm and it is 12mm to the camera sensor.

I attached these together and measured the distance I got very similar results to Gina but found I needed 10mm to make the distance to 56.3mm I believe this is close enough.

I got the 10mm spacer from Telescope services the link is here:

http://www.teleskop-...p/info/p2260_TS

while I believe these measurements to be accurate I cannot confirm these measurements as the focal reducer is not in my possesion at the moment but I will have it back by the weekend and will attach them all together and measure

the distance to confirm.Feel free to PM me on saturday if you want to know the exact distance I get.

I've used this combination both with and without the FR and have the spacing sorted out. For using the 0.85x SW FR you need the following :-

• M48 to T2 adapter - Teleskop Express - http://www.optcorp.com/product.aspx?pid=17719&kw=TS-TSM48-T2&st=3
• Atik T2 to M54 adapter to fit EFW2 filter wheel - FLO :- http://www.firstlightoptics.com/adaptors/atik-m54-to-m42-t-adapter.html
• 11.5mm extra spacing needed to make the 55mm FR to camera sn]ensor distance. I used 8mm and 3mm T2 extension tubes - seems to be near enough. I tried putting a 0.6mm delrin spacer in but there wasn't enough thread on any of the adapters to give a solid attachment.

Hi I am in the process of doing this very thing and have also been in touch with Martin from FLO regarding relevent adapters.Martin informed me they are now having the adapters custom made to attach the EFW2 to the skywatcher focal reducer but I dont know what the spacing will be (M54 to M42x0.75) may be worth an email to them asking for an update. I did something very similar to Gina but i got my m48 to t2 adapter(m42x0.75) from altair astro link here:- http://www.altairastro.com/product.php?productid=16569&page=1 This adds 1mm on to the optical train Flo sell a m54 to t2 adapter low profile link here: http://www.firstlightoptics.com/adaptors/atik-m54-to-m42-t-adapter.html This adds 1.3mm on to the optical train I also got the EFW2 as 22mm and it is 12mm to the camera sensor. I attached these together and measured the distance I got very similar results to Gina but found I needed 10mm to make the distance to 56.3mm I believe this is close enough. I got the 10mm spacer from Telescope services the link is here: http://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p2260_TS while I believe these measurements to be accurate I cannot confirm these measurements as the focal reducer is not in my possesion at the moment but I will have it back by the weekend and will attach them all together and measure the distance to confirm.Feel free to PM me on saturday if you want to know the exact distance I get.

Can you please help with my last query?

[laser_jock99]

A tip; put some boot polish on the fine threads of all these infernal spacers or they will cold weld themselves together for eternity just before you find just the right chip distance...

I can vouch for the cold welding experience. A 48mm photographic filter wrench is a good accessory too. Saves getting a plumbers pipe wrench and wrecking a 2" narrow band filter like I did.....

[Gina]

I've got the welded up adapters problem! I have T2 (M42x75) extension tubes screwed into the Atik T2 to M54 adapter for the focal reducer and now want to attach the T2 to M42x1 lens adapter for widefield. But the T2 extensions now seem to be welded into the Atik adapter as well as welded to each other. So with a possible clear sky tonight I shall have to use ED80 imaging instead of widefield as I had planned. I've ordered another Atik adapter from FLO but that won't go out untill tomorrow with Saturday the very earliest it could arrive - more likely next week. At least the Atik adapter came out of the EFW2 alright

[andyo]

I am getting confused with the distances from the FR to the chip. Is it 55 or 56 mm?

Secondly, assuming 55mm due to the filter effects, is the following true?

Camera chip to front 12mm--> EFW2 22mm--> M48 to T2 adapter 1mm--> xxmm extension tube--> M54 T2 1.3mm --> FR.

Is this correct? If it is, then 55mm-12mm-22mm-1mm-1.3mm=18.7mm extension tube. You are all talking about extension tubes of approx 10mm?

I am clearly missing something, but I cannot get my head around this!

Yes you havnt allowed for the distance on the actual FR.I have my FR back and just bought some boot polish will have the answer for exact spacing my combination comes to

later on so will update this post tonight

[ian_bird]

Why boot polish? Is it better than say vaseline?

[kingboya]

Excellent thanks for your help!

[kingboya]

Why boot polish? Is it better than say vaseline?

Vaseline would be much better I would have thought because no funny smell of no dirty hands!

[Merlin66]

No, no, no.....

Don't use Vaseline, grease, oil, WD40 etc etc. They will either weep with temperature or get onto your optics.....

I've been using the boot polish ( your choice of colour) successfully for the past twenty years.

Highly recommended.

[andyo]

Hi,

Ok attached it all together and measured the distance,I havnt got callipers just metal ruler but i got the distance to just over 41mm.I managed to add a 1.2mm delrin spacer onto the 10mm

spacer at the m42 end.Just clipped it open with scissors and it fitted nicely good tight fit with no flexure.Link for delrin spacers here:-

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/adaptors/baader-t2-delrin-spacer-ring-set.html

So the gap is now 42.5mm plus the 12mm for the Atik gives 54.5mm.The optimal distance for this reducer is 55mm but this is good enough there is some tolerance with them.However I havnt given it a working test.That should happen when we get another clear night around about September.By the way the boot polish worked I dont know about vaseline never tried it

[kingboya]

Hi,

Ok attached it all together and measured the distance,I havnt got callipers just metal ruler but i got the distance to just over 41mm.I managed to add a 1.2mm delrin spacer onto the 10mm

spacer at the m42 end.Just clipped it open with scissors and it fitted nicely good tight fit with no flexure.Link for delrin spacers here:-

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/adaptors/baader-t2-delrin-spacer-ring-set.html

So the gap is now 42.5mm plus the 12mm for the Atik gives 54.5mm.The optimal distance for this reducer is 55mm but this is good enough there is some tolerance with them.However I havnt given it a working test.That should happen when we get another clear night around about September.By the way the boot polish worked I dont know about vaseline never tried it

Thanks so much for that! Just to clarify, 42.5mm is from the glass of the FR to the end of the filter wheel?

Could you perhaps do a small optical train diagram of your connections and lengths. I am still struggling to visualize things

[Sp@ce_d]

Snip.......

A tip; put some boot polish on the fine threads of all these infernal spacers or they will cold weld themselves together for eternity just before you find just the right chip distance...

A small amount af adjustability in the form of nylon shims or lockrings can be arranged and is a good idea.

Olly

Ahh.. I've tried Vaseline but never heard that one before.. This exact problem lost me last nights clear skies when I tried moving the Atik onto the ED80. Finally got them apart tonight after some hot & cold treatment... & a few sliced hands!

[kingboya]

Could someone please post an image of the assembled setup if you get a chance please, pretty please