6SE or 8SE (that is the question!)

[Deano7]

Hi again everyone,

Thankyou from my (previous post) on helping me decide certainly on buying Celestron, and at the moment I am just waiting for an eyepiece set to come in stock before I buy the 6SE. However..... it seems the 8SE aslo may be a contender having read the various reviews on this forum.

I guess, what my almost Shakespearian question is, for the extra 2" aperature, is there going to be a startling difference for the extra £375 and will portability really suffer. Still no plans for astro photography, just want good views of the planets and clusters / galaxies ect..

Everyone is right by the way, it's so easy to get carried away, but at the end of the day, I just want to get it right first time.

Regards Dean.

[Jamie]

Hi Dean

Buy the biggest and best quality you can afford/live with.

Aperture is King and all that....

[SteelRat]

Buy the biggest and best quality you can afford/live with. Aperture is King and all that....

Yup - 8SE has 78% more light gathering than 6SE but is only 1.3kg heavier.

Quite a difference optically, portability hardly suffers at all

[MartinB]

If you are of average strength and fitness you will be able to move the 8" around attached to it's tripod no problem. As for the extra money, well that depends on whether you are a scope hopper or not. Some people are restless with their scopes and change very frequently - this might happen to you if you get the 6". If you get the 8" and hang onto it without getting scope itch it will definitely be worth it.

[John]

Get the larger scope if you can afford the extra. If you don't, it will only nag away at you and you will eventually upgrade anyway which will cost you more than doing it now ...... many of us have been in that position

John

[dweller25]

The 8" is a classic and will perform better than the 6" and is still portable. I have a bad back but still find a 9.25" portable (when broken down into individual components). The saying "aperture is king" is true.

[Deano7]

Looks like the 8SE could well be the one then. It's like most things though, you start of with a budget in mind (for example, I began looking at the ETX105!), then thought perhaps I should get the 125 and now I am thinking of digging deeper into my pockets to get the 8SE! I do believe though in buying something that you will not regret and I don't want to be always thinking "I wish I had of bought"

I know it's easy to get "aperature fever" but I think 8" really will be on my limit of portability and certainly price. I have only ever been used to views through a cheap 2" refractor so it's a huge jump back into Astronomy.

To all those who actually own the 8SE, is it really "on the limits" of the tripod supplied or is the tripod more than adequate? Any other useful comments on the 8SE, I have a few days to decide but it will definately be one or the other.

Many thanks once again for all your helpful advice and responses.

[russ]

Having owned both the C6 and C8 in the last two years, there's no doubt the C8 is worth the extra.

I did have a play with the 8SE at Herstmonceux a few weeks ago. It all looked nice but i'm real fussy when it comes to damp down times and 8SE worried me a little. I only got to play in the day and on distant tree. But the damp down was around 3-4 secs at medium power. Too much for my liking.

That said, I thought the same of my C8-N on the ASGT mount and others thought it totally acceptable. So I wouldn't read too much into that....i'm fussy!

Russ

[dogfish]

Hi again Dean

As you know, I own the 6SE, but having looked through a few other 'scopes recently I've begun to get aperture fever. I've had my 6SE for 6 months and now want more aperture (thinking about a 10 or 12 inch dobsonian) but then I'm a visual observor who's interested in DSO's. Comparing the views through my 6SE and Kenny's CPC8, as he has already said, you can see a marked difference. I would think that the 8SE would keep you satisfied for a good while, in that it is likely to postpone aperture cravings. I've not seen an 8SE in the flesh so can't answer your question about the stability of the mount.

Others have wisely pointed out that buying new kit and then selling it shortly afterwards means taking a financial hit. The alternative to buying the biggest and most expensive you can handle/afford is to buy 2nd hand when the hit has been taken by someone else already. I have seen some 2nd hand 6SE's around and in the £450 to £500 mark. If you were to buy one of these and become dissatisfied then you could sell it on for close to what you bought it for, maybe only losing £50. Amateur astronomers usually take pretty good care of their kit so you're unlikely to get ripped off.

I'm toying with the idea of selling mine to fund a biggish dob, but would probably keep it if some back pay I'm due comes through in the near future.

HTH, Martin

[Deano7]

Is the 8SE really that much of a problem on the mount supplied, I don't want to think after paying the extra for more light grasp that I will be dissapointed form vibration issues. If there is not a huge difference in image then maybe the 6SE, being much more stable on the same mount, is the better choice? But then again if I am going to get superior views from the 8SE, then I will be happy. I guess I want the best of both worlds from one product!

Regards Dean

[russ]

Dean, I grabbed this from a review on the web:

Mount Stability and Sturdiness.

For a telescope of such large aperture to also be light and portable, there has to be a compromise. And this is it. While competent at visual observation, the tripod and fork arm suffer from high susceptibility to long-lived vibration. If one does not touch or bump the telescope, the mount provides rock- solid, tack-sharp images. However, the slightest bump or touch sets it vibrating, which manifests itself in the eyepiece as a blurry, out of focus, image. At no time does this become more apparenty than when trying to achieve perfect focus at high magnification. Focusing under these conditions amounts to: touch the focuser, wait, adjust, wait, adjust, and wait again. Repeat ad nauseum. A tap test at 451.6x mag revealed that it takes about 10 seconds for vibration to fully dampen out. As said before, but it bears repeating, this makes high magnification focusing a painfully tedious, and potentially frustrating, process. A set of anti-vibration pads, and / or a motorfocuser will be essential accessories for anyone who plans to do high magnification viewing.

Long exposure atrophotography, while not impossible, will probably prove very difficult with this setup for the same reasons mentioned above.

Verdict: Poor. While perfect for visual observation, the mount is susceptible to vibration and shaking, particularly at high magnification. Long exposure DSO astrophotography is not recommended. This is definitely the telescope's weakest link.

Russ

[GazOC]

10 seconds to dampen down?? :shock: :shock: :shock:

[James]

At 451x magnification I would have thought vibration would be a problem on almost any setup! I find its rare that conditions are good enough to go to 450x magnification.

I'd say go for aperture. When I got back into astronomy my wife was expecting me to go for a slightly considerably smaller scope than I did - had I followed her expectations I would have bought a bigger scope within a few months. Of course its your choice but what's annoying vibration to one person won't be to another.

James

[GazOC]

I'd guess the reviewer just chose x450 to make the point. Even at x450, 10 seconds is way too long, you should be aiming for 5 seconds at most.

[lunator]

It does seem excessive damp down time. Although I would be onlu too happy to have conditions where I could use x451

[GazOC]

It does seem excessive damp down time. Although I would be onlu too happy to have conditions where I could use x451

Don't give me that mate, you double star guys use crazy magnifications....

[Deano7]

Thanks for pointing out the review Rus, I had read that somewhere too on my search though the web for more information. A little bit of a concern. I wish it didn't have to come down to a choice of aperature or stability! I assume this is just down to the limitations of a single arm mount.

[GazOC]

No, its just implementation, Celestron used put 8" SCTs on single forks and they were fine.

[GordonCopestake]

I have owned both the C6 and C8 and without a doubt the C8 is optically better (or at least higher resolution / brighter). However after hefting both, the 8SE would perhaps be right on the edge of having to carry the whole scope in one go without taking mount then OTA in two trips. The 6SE I can carry in one go, the 8SE I need 2 trips. You might be different, it depends on your size and strength (i'm a weakling hehe), but (apart from the finances) thats the main reason I brought the 6SE over the 8SE as portability was my main concern. If aperture and resolution is your main concern the forget the SCT and get a big dob. For the same price you can probably get a 10" or 12" which will blow the 8" SCT out of the water. Although of course you loose the GOTO on the dob

Just my 2p worth

[Hugh]

Hi Dean,

As per my previous post, I have had a 6SE for about 6 months. I can lift it comfortably and set it up on the patio, aligned and ready to go in under 5 minutes. I haven't found vibration to be an issue (I only use visual) and given the chance would upgrade to an 8" just for the light grasp. Given the weight differential over the 6SE, I would probably sacrifice the damp down time in favour of a brighter image.

I guess the acid test is to try them side by side ...

But as I haven't got the budget signed off, I'll have to wait !

Cheers

Hugh

[Deano7]

Thanks hugh, perhaps I should of entitled this thread, Stability or aperature?? I will be happy once I have made my decision at last!

I agree with you Gordon but I do require portability so that does rule out the Dob route for me. If the 8" didn't have the stability issue I would be at outside with it now! (wishing for the clouds to go!) The other answer may be to have a C8 SGT on the CG5 mount? I assume pretty much the same optically but on a much more stable mount? Having not used either mount, I don't know how easy the CG5 mount will be to set up quickly?

Regards Dean

[GordonCopestake]

If portability is a concern DONT get the CG5. The jump to a "decent" EQ mount is something of a shock to the system when you first get one.

As for stability issues, there really isn't any with the 8SE. The single arm is remarkably stable and i've had my 6SE up to 500x with little problems. The optics (and atmosphere) gave up before the mount. Thats not to say it's ROCK solid, but it's more than enough for visual use. If you can afford it, get the 8SE. If upgradability is a concern look at the CG5, but beware it's a lot larger than the SE fork mount.

I would say find a local supplier, or have a day trip on a saturday to David Hinds or somebody with a show room so you can look at the 'scopes in the flesh and heft the weights in your hands.

[GordonCopestake]

Oh, and dont forget that with the SE 90% of your cash goes into the OTA (take a look at the C8 OTA only price compared to the 8SE price), so if you get the 8SE and want to upgrade at a later time you can get a CG5 mount second hand and have the best of all worlds, fast goto with the SE and rock solid imaging (cough) with the CG5

[Deano7]

Thats a good idea Gordon. I wish there was a local Celestron dealer, I may just have to travel and make a day of it (the wife & kids will be pleased ha ha)

[Hugh]

While you're there Deano, checkout the right angle finders, the red dot finders supplied are great but at or near the zenith I find contorting in to an S shape to get the alignment star in view uncomfortable to say the least.

I have yet to get one but it's on my list (ever growing...)

Cheers

Hugh