14" Dob (Skywatcher 350p Flextube)... is it the right call?

[Rob_UK_SE]

Greetings fellow stargazers,

I find myself with a rather frustrating dilemma...

We have recently moved to a new home that (finally) benefits from pretty dark skies and a south east position from the garden. I now also have the ability to store the scopes in a securely locked garage.

Since the move, the Skywatcher Dob (10”) has been out on every clear night and our Tele Vue 102 refractor has remained permanently indoors. I am relatively new to dobsonian scopes having come from the SCT then Refractor camp, but am absolutely sold on their design. The set up time is half that of our refractor. The only area the refractor really wins on is cooling down to thermal equilibrium.

I always believed that a high quality APO was the best companion to a dob, however, I am now starting to think that a 10” dob is a good ‘Grab and Go’ companion to a much bigger dob – such as Skywatcher’s new 350p flextube? I have the room to store it, however, it will probably be just me setting it up.

The frustrating bit is that will have to sell the Tele Vue 102 to finance the 14 dob and required upgrades (Moonlight focuser, Astrozap light shroud, Telrad / Rigel finder, etc). After consideration the 16" would be just too big for me to handle, but I think the 14" might be ok?

As wonderful as the views are through the Tele Vue unfortunately aperture fever (may) win over as the hunt for galaxies is my guilty pleasure – an area that the Tele Vue was never really designed for- its more of a planetary / double star scope. It would be a great scope for astrophotography, however, I am purely a visual observer.

Does anyone else use a smaller dob as a grab and go, with a bigger scope for those moon free nights? I am so very tempted to go down this road, but don't know enough about the 350p flextube to take the plunge yet - there isn't that much available online about them.

Would you do it... sell the refractor for a big(ish) dob + little(ish) dob?

Best regards,

Rob

[swamp thing]

Hi Rob

Well here's one that likes to have two Dobs. A 10" grab n go for quick sessions and times when dragging the big un out isn't practical.

You don't really want to be hauling a large aperture scope out when the moon is nearly full, or if an early start only allows an hour or two under the skies.

I find a 10" makes a perfect large scope companion as it still offers enough aperture for some really detailed views that will keep you amused, and it's small and light enough to be ready in seconds.

I've no large scope at the moment (in between big Dobs) but the 10" keeps me amused whilst the big scope is under construction.

[NGC 1502]

Hi Rob, tough call this one. I've sold scopes in the past and regretted it. Are you certain you want to let the TV 102 go ? Of course, only you can answer that one, we all have individual requirements. Before you sell it to finance the flextube 14", I would try to see one in the flesh if possible, to get a feel for the size & weight.

I see you are in East Sussex, how about contacting http://www.sussex-astronomy-centre.co.uk/ to see if they could let you see a 14" Flextube ?

Regards, Ed.

[Moonshane]

I have a 6" f11 and a 16" f4, both Orion Optics dobs and a home made 'suitcase' 6" f5 dob - you may have noticed I like dobs. I have no experience with SW dobs other than an 8" I bought for my school club. For me there's no comparison between any other scope I have looked through than my 16" masked to 170mm for planets and double stars.

aperture wins. there's no doubt when it comes to faint objects as we all know. 14" would be a good jump from your 10". If I were you though, I'd consider a 16" as this can be modified to include some 'wheelbarrow' handles which make moving it from a garage or similar very easy on the back. I use a sack truck for my OTA and carry the base.

like you, I really appreciate the ability to set up my 6" dob and have an hour or two observing when the 16" is not practical. it's also a great solar scope.

you won't have any regrets with the bigger aperture if you plan the transport of it well.

[Bart]

Rob,

I have a 6" Dob, a 10" DOb, and as of yesterday, a 16" Dob. Like Moonshane, I like Dobs! The 10" gives good views, and after assembing the 16", the 10" will be the one I travel with as the 16" is heavy, very heavy. Must work out a good transport system, such as the wheelbarrow arrangement. Cannot wait to see the difference between it and the 10". M51 mmmmmm! I say travel, but I haven't done it yet. My garden is pretty dark, but you know, the grass is always greener, or blacker.... I have actively been looking for dark sites and plan to try a couple out in the early Autumn/late summer, or August as i like to call it.

To me, hunting the galaxies and teasing out detail is my thing nad so I went for the biggest I could mange. And believe me, the 16" is the biggest I can manage....

Good luck

Baart

[Rob_UK_SE]

I'm really grateful to you all for sharing your views on this this topic. Ultimately, I am going to have to compromise – I do recognise this. In an ideal world I would keep the Tele Vue as well, however, funds simply won't allow this.

The two dob idea has really grown on me and your thoughts have helped to solidify this - thank you.

I have now advertised the scope and hope to unlock the money tied up in it shortly. However, I am now wondering whether the Skywatcher is the best scope for my budget after your post Moonshane commenting on Skywatcher Dobs. Perhaps I should be looking at alternative large dob options? For example, should I be considering the Meade Lightbridge 16 for a little more money, or the Orion 12 intelliscope (not that I am looking for the intelliscope bit) for the same money as the 14" Skywatcher? As my wife and I are both around 5ft. 8" I have been slightly put off the idea of standing on a platform for observing, but maybe this is worrying over nothing.

As we will be loosing a high quality instrument to fund this dob I would like to end up with something we would be happy to settle for (once the usual upgrades / mods have been completed etc). This really does need to be a scope that has some longevity. I genuinely have finished my eyepiece collection and have no need to either upgrade or purchase additional glass - I would like to think I am investing in a large aperture scope that is a keeper for, perhaps, approximately 10 years.

So my final dilemma is weighing up between a 14" Skywatcher Flextube vs 16 Meade Lightbridge vs 12” Orion Intelliscope vs something else that I don't key know of...

Eek!

Best regards,

Rob

Edited June 28, 2012 by Rob_UK_SE

[John]

Skywatcher / Orion (USA) / Meade Lightbridge are all very similar in optical quality. Orion (USA) uses the same optics as Skywatchers. If you would like to improve the optical quality then Orion Optics (UK) scopes are worth looking at. They tend to be lighter than their chinese counterparts too. You can opt for even higher quality optics with Orion Optics if you wish.

Of course you do have to invest more in better quality optics but that won't be a surprise I'm sure.

[swamp thing]

As you Know Rob I had the Meade LB! it's a good scope but does need some work to make it a great one. Namely junk the RDF (it's utter gash) and the focuser needs replacing. Then you are left with the balancing issues. You either pay very careful attention to counterweighting it correctly or build a new base. I would have done the latter but mine I never saw as a keeper, so I went for the counterweighting option.

The problems with the balance comes from Meade fitting woefully small altitude bearings. They do make it very easy to move (read too easy) but with any big eyepieces (do you still have your Terminagler ?) you will be in the sticky stuff.

There is also the issue with the ground boards being made of chipboard, which is not the most moisture resistant of materials. So the idea of building your own base is deffinitily an attractive one if you wanna keep it. I will add I never had any problems with my ground board but it is a known fault.

Even with all it's faults it's still a good introduction to large aperture observing. It gets you a good, large mirror set for not much dough really. It also allows feet on floor observing right up to near the zenith for me ( I'm 5' 11" ) and only when it was vertical did I have to stand on tip toe.

It doesn't suffer the same as the 12" LB with weak colly springs. The ones on the 16" work fine and it's very easy primary adjustment. The secondary, I replaced these adjuster screws with some Allen bolts as they give a much better 'located' feel (the Meade ones are monkey metal posi drive ones that don't last )

Blimey this has turned into a review

Hope this is of some help with your choice. I've been as homest as I can remember about the scope.

One final thing, would I have another one even with the faults?.......yes, the views are great and with a few tweaks it could be a real gem.

[Moonshane]

I have to say that I have not heard of many SW/Mead dob bases falling apart due to the materials of construction but I just don't like the idea of them nor their inherent weight. the ones that did I suspect were left in the damp too long maybe and longevity (and maybe rigidity?) can be increased by sealing the joints with silicone I expect.

As Steve and John say, they are great quality, good value scopes. I just decided to go down the high quality, highly accurate mirror (albeit used) route to build my own due to the cost of a new one at this aperture. aperture is what counts most (other than dark skies etc) when hunting your preferred targets.

[scarp15]

Hi, I wasn't too sure about the chip board factor in the base before I went ahead and purchased the 300p flextube. However my opinion is that it is up the job, and should be failry water tight against damp. If stored well (dry and indoors) and thanks to our wonderful UK weather (flash floods here in Newcastle today),- occasionally being taken outside and used, it should last a long time. Then in due course there is always the option to employ someone with joinery skills to use the base as a template to build a 'proper'' wooden one.

[estwing]

my base is 12yrs old....still solid

[stevetynant]

Out of interest (with my 50th B/Day approaching in a couple of years and apologies for shameless thread hijacking) what would you suggest is the largest Dob based scope that is relatively easily transportable in an average family saloon. I've currently got the 200p which I love but inevitably will want more aperture eventually - is a 16 Inch Dob out of the question or are we talking 14 or even 12 Inches?

appreciate anyones thoughts and apologies once again for sidetracking the O/P.

[scarp15]

Personally if I was going above 12" to transport out, and depending on the size of vehicle, I might be tempted to consider a practical and portable solution such as a David Lukehurst truss design - which will be a lighter / compact option, as well as of course quality build and optics.

[alan potts]

Chipboard is a good working medium, it just needs to sealed against damp, if it is kept dry it is fine for years. Most new houses now in the UK have chipboard floors trust me there is nothing special about. Many bath panels are made from MDF, it's only a variation on chip board.

Having said that I am looking to buy a 16 inch myself and I am not too please with chipboard being used in the base.

Alan, trying to talk himself into buying a Sky Watcher 16 goto Dob.

[Bart]

Alan, trying to talk himself into buying a Sky Watcher 16 goto Dob.

And doing a good job...

[Rob_UK_SE]

Following the many helpful suggestions (thank you to all), I drove to Telescope House hoping to look at the size and weight of some of the dobs discussed. They had a 16” Lightbridge and seeing one with daylight allowed me to realise just how big the thing really is. My only previous experience of one was Steve's, however, the weather (typical sudden cloud) put a stop to experiencing it in ‘full glory’. After my visit, and further consideration, my head did tell me that a 16” dob is just too much for me to manage on my own - even though my heart was ready to hand over my bank card and run – well, stagger out slowly, dragging a series of rather large boxes!

Unfortunately, Telescope House don't sell the 14" Skywatcher flextube so I was unable to see one in the flesh, but I am wondering if it is similar in scale to the 16" - particularly when considering the size and weight of the base being so similar to the 16" Lightbridge?

They did have the 12” lightbridge. Interestingly, it was somewhat bigger than I remember from previous use of friends’ 1500mm focal length dobs. Perhaps I am better off scaling my ideas down in favour of a 12” dob (which would probably result in the sale of my 10" dob) then keeping the Tele Vue for those moonlit nights and changeable weather moments. Not to criticize Skywatcher or Meade scopes (after all, I own a Skywatcher dob too), but I am now a little concerned now about selling the Tele Vue towards a dob that may have a limited lifespan when compare to the scope I would sell to pay for it.

I am still searching for a 14” to see one up close, but increasingly with an understanding of why so many choose 12” as their large scope. Maybe this is the better way forward, keep the refractor, but upgrade the 10" to a 12” dob for DSO.

Oh the joy of aperture fever…

Rob

Edited July 1, 2012 by Rob_UK_SE

[Mike73]

I'd love something bigger than 12" but the practicalities of transporting a 16" SW or LB is just too much considering I do 80% of my observing away from home.

If and when I upgrade it will be an 18" but given the price of Obsession/Sumerian it won't be for quite a while.

[estwing]

I'd love something bigger than 12" but the practicalities of transporting a 16" SW or LB is just too much considering I do 80% of my observing away from home.

If and when I upgrade it will be an 18" but given the price of Obsession/Sumerian it won't be for quite a while.

.....i'll give you a month Mike

[Mike73]

.....i'll give you a month Mike

well I didn't give a specific time scale did I?!

[Pingster]

I have the 16in goto flextube. Its an amazing scope. Im only 5"4in tall can easily manage it alone, its on casters and i can push it alone into and out of my van usin the tail lift.

Since you have pernament storge for it, the 16in is a viable solution. Make sure to put it on casters that have har rubber wheelsnand not inflatable wheels (wobble).

The 16in scope is about the largest scope you can buy in the UK and cured my apature fever! I always want to see more, but knowing you can really buy bigger scope in the UK for decent prices.... 16 cures my fever.

If you go for 14, you will always wonder what the 16 will be like. Also the resolution gain of the 16 over the 14 will be significant.

Good luck with your decision.

[Rob_UK_SE]

An update...

I have taken the Tele Vue scope off various sale sites and have firmly decided to keep it.

However, I still intend to get something a little larger for DSOs. Therefore, the 10" dob has to go and will be replaced with either a 12" or 14". To be honest, a third scope would land me in soo much trouble with my better half that there is no other option . This is the only way I can justify the upgrade. I have called around and completely failed to find a 14" Flextube in stock to view, however, looking at the rocker dimensions I think it is probably just too big and heavy. If finances allow it, I would sooner order the 16" as it is so similar in weight to the 14" anyway.

I know this question has been posted a fairly health number of times on SGL, but given everyones current experiences which would you go for: Skywatcher 12" Flextube or a 12" Meade Lightbridge. Both are the same money, one requires an immediate upgrade to the springs, the other is slightly heavier and more bulky.

Which would you suggest has marginally better optics? Anything else that makes one slightly more appealing than the other?

I'm afraid I have turned this thread into yet another Skywatcher vs Meade posting... sorry folks.

Rob

Edited July 10, 2012 by Rob_UK_SE

[swamp thing]

For a 12" scope I would go with the Flextube. This is the ultimate Flextube size IMO it really helps with portability of this size scope and the collapsed package doesn't need a tail lift to get it in and out of your motor

I would still bin the focuser and finder, replacing them with better ones.This would really make it rock.

Ps. Hope to catch up for some more observing once the nights get a bit longer.

[Mike73]

I think a lot of people have been in your situation when trying to decide between the 12" and 14" SW I know I was.

I had the cash and had my heart set on the 14", everything that I read about the size and bulk of the 14" was put to the back of my head but just before ordering common sense prevailed and I made the right choice and bought the 12" which I can honestly say was the right choice for me.

So I'd recommend the 12" and like Steve says put the remanding money into a few mods which will really make it sing.

Heres mine with a Moonlite focuser, Bobs Knobs on the secondary, flocked and with the finder replaced to a Telrad.

All for about the same price as a 14".

[Pingster]

At 5 feet 4inches i need to climb on the third step on a ladder to view at zenith,keep that in mind.

[swamp thing]

At 5 feet 4inches i need to climb on the third step on a ladder to view at zenith,keep that in mind.

The eyepiece position isn't the best on the Flextube is it? They could have put it more round the side to make it easier at higher elevations. I needed the steps too at the zenith with your beast. It is kinda mahoosive.