Xiga

I should also point out, i've noticed that the Master Flat looks odd, in that it has banding. I haven't been too worried about this, as it seems to calibrate out ok, but thought it was worth mentioning all the same. Note, i created the Master Flat from 50 Flats of 1s duration. I'm always wary of shooting flats that are too short, so i usually alter the brightness of my ipad so that i can shoot 1s flats. This has always worked perfectly for me with my D5300, but i wonder if the banding is due to an electronic shutter rather than a mechanical one, in which case, do i need to shoot much longer flats? In any case, they still seem to calibrate fine on the post-flip subs, so i don't think it's the cause of the issues i'm having. FWIW, here's a couple of jpg's of what the pre-flip and post-flip subs look like after calibration: Pre-flip: Post-flip:

Hi guys So i haven't been able to do any imaging at all in recent times (and in all likelihood that won't change anytime soon), but as luck would have it, i did manage to get out last weekend, so i tried my luck on NGC 1333. I captured 120 x 2min subs (4 hrs), and 70 of the subs were pre-Meridian flip, with the last 50 being post-flip. I used a Qhy163c camera and SGP for capture. I shot everything at Gain 80, Offset 35, and both SGP and APP both show a Gain of 80 in the fits header of both sets of exposure (they don't show the Offset, but i know it was set to 35, as i have presets saved, so i don't manually input anything). At the very end of the session, i shot my Flats and Dark Flats. But when i later looked at the subs, something clearly wasn't right with the pre-flip subs. SGP reports a Mean ADU level of about 9,600 which is insanely high. I was aiming for an ADU of about 1,400, and curiously, the post-flip subs came out very close to this. And sure enough, when i tried calibrating the subs, the post-flip subs calibrate fine (at least i think they do, this is actually my 1st light for the camera proper), but the pre-flip subs do not calibrate at all. The problem is definitely not with the calibration subs, it is 100% down to the pre-flip Lights. The thing is, i never changed any settings pre and post flip. I set my alarm for 10 mins before the flip, as i like to make sure no cables get caught, but i awoke to see that the sequence had aborted, due to passing clouds. So i performed the flip, and continued with the sequence as normal, but i didn't change any camera setting at all. I've attached screen grabs below of the histogram in SGP, for both a pre-flip and post-flip sub. You can clearly see the issue, the pre-flip sub levels are just way too high. I've also attached links below to a raw pre and post flip light, as well as the Master Flat, Master Dark, and BPM that i was using. As it stands, the 50 post-flip subs are nowhere near enough to even render an image worthy of posting. If the pre-flip subs could be salvaged in any way, i might stand a chance of making a passable image, but at present i can't see any way of making them useable (these cooled CMOS cameras really need Darks badly). Have to say, i was pretty miffed that this happened. Unless i get to the bottom of what happened, i'm always going to worry that some subs could randomly come out like this and the night will be wasted. TIA for any help anyone can offer! Pre-Flip: Post-Flip: Pre-Flip Light: https://1drv.ms/u/s!AhhWC3D3zU7BpUdI2EAf9HEbbdIs?e=ZCYMa3 Post-Flip Light: https://1drv.ms/u/s!AhhWC3D3zU7BpUjcA1iG5vKY6RrM?e=dqHkgx Master Dark: https://1drv.ms/u/s!AhhWC3D3zU7BpUqIjyKs2qaO40Gy?e=mEYaBr Master Flat: https://1drv.ms/u/s!AhhWC3D3zU7BpUqIjyKs2qaO40Gy?e=mEYaBr BPM: https://1drv.ms/u/s!AhhWC3D3zU7BpUupNcSdWttMhYnf?e=LiR2g8

👍 Out of curiosity, what's the main reason you're thinking of upgrading? The smaller pixels or the fact that its 16bit? Is there much of a difference in 14bit vs 16bit data once stacked?

Nope, that was just me being a numpty! The link was fine. Meant to type 268c 😅

Yes just reducing the image size. Although as I recently discovered, using PS is not ideal for this. The algorithm it uses is not the best. Seeing as you have APP, it would be better to use it instead as it uses the Lanczos algorithm. The Qhy600 looks amazing. Small pixels, big wells and native 16bit! Any idea what it's likely to cost?

Absolutely gorgeous Richard! I always love your stars, the 071's deep wells must be a joy to process. Good to see the Esprit working well for you too. When viewed full screen, the image has real depth, almost 3-D like. If i could offer a very small piece of feedback, i'm not sure if this one really needs viewing at 100%. Full-screen looks good enough IMHO, as you get to take it all in, and there's not much in the way of small-scale detail on show anyway, so perhaps this could be an example of one where a downsample would be of benefit?

Wowzers, congrats on the new scope Adam! All that aperture.... and F2.8! 😮 So does this hereby endeth the reign of the dual rig? My (probably bad) Maths says this will gather 2.5 times as much light as two 80ED's, but obviously with tonnes more resolution. Nice! 😎

Hi Robny 1.2 to 1.4 is definitive on the high side for this mount, even without the belt mod. Can you give us some more info of your setup? What scope are you using? And what's your image scale? The fact you say your stars are ok tells me your image scale is probably a bit on the low side, but better guiding is always a desirable goal so I would hazard a guess that you need to look at balance and Phd2 settings. Paraman that's an RMS of 0.57 arc secs (not 0.43) but that's still seriously good! I've no idea how much weight you're carrying, but the pier will no doubt be a big help here too. Pretty sweet though! Adam's right. On a bad night, I would expect to get 0.9-1.0", on a typical night 0.7-0.9", and on an exceptional night 0.6-0.7". I once got ~0.5" for about an hour one night, but I've never matched that since. It definitely depends on multiple factors, sky conditions and location (my mount definitely prefers having the scope on the East side for example). Just so you know, I image with an 80ED and a finder-guider on my Heq5-Pro, so not much weight at all. The mount is nearly 7 yrs old now, and has had a motherboard replacement (by me) so is no spring chicken lol. @Robny can you give us more details on how you balance? Do you do Meridian flips? And do you rebalance afterwards? Also, what are your Phd2 settings? Ps - I'm not as active on the forums these days as I'd like to be, but I'll do my best to help you out with getting your settings optimised.

Adding the Ha stars back in is actually pretty simple. In PS, just layer the starless image on top of the regular Ha image (the version you ran Starnet on) and change the blend mode to either Difference or Subtraction. This should leave you with just the stars showing. Flatten and save, and then layer this 'Stars only' image back on top of the starless (Starnet) one, with a blend mode of Lighten. Only the Ha stars should now be getting added. This method works great for NB, as you can keep the stars and nebulosity separated, which makes processing much easier. Oh, nice image btw Richard! 👍 That's some size FOV!

Rodd, your images are always top-notch, and this one is no different. You have good equipment, and you certainly know your way around P.I (from seeing your previous images). Olly has hit the nail on the head in his comment above, I think you're just under-estimating the importance of truly dark skies, especially so when it comes to broadband imaging, and doubly-so when it comes to imaging dark dusty regions. I'm still just a lowly DSLR imager myself, but when i first started out doing AP i actually jumped straight into Narrowband work, and i loved that i was able to get good results almost instantly. It was a while before i actually even tried some broadband imaging, and when i finally did, it was only then that i realised just how much harder it is compared to NB imaging (at least in my opinion). Narrowband hides virtually all the sins of LP, but broadband imaging really shows up the quality of your skies, and no amount of processing can fix that. Yes, gradient reduction (whatever your chosen flavour) can indeed work wonders, but you have to remember it will Always result in a noisier image. But living in an LP area, we have no choice but to use these algorithms. For those lucky enough to image from dark skies, they still benefit from using these routines, but the negative impact is far less. Out of interest, what does the image look like before and after you apply DBE? (assuming that's what you've ran). Where you live, do you have the option of travelling to darker skies? If you could, even if only for a short time, i think you would be amazed at the quality of data you would get in such a short amount of time. If travelling is not an option at all, then i'm afraid you will probably just have to accept the upper limits of what you can achieve with the skies available to you, and you may already be pretty close to that. Alternatively, just use more NR and don't let it get to you! lol. ps - As it is, it's already a great image. I actually really, really like the core just the way it is, although i wouldn't push it any further than this. I do agree though, that it is somewhat out of balance with the outer dusty regions, but the only viable solutions to this are either applying more NR, or getting to darker skies.

Btw, thanks for posting the cropped version. Seeing it, it actually made me realise i much prefer this orientation, so i went back and rotated & cropped my own version, and i now like it a lot more, so cheers! 🙏 😀

That's really lovely Adam. Nice and bright & vibrant, which i like very much! I probably would have left a tad more green in there myself, but i know Green is almost a dirty word in AP 😁 so it's totally a personal preference decision and nothing more. On a side note, Starnet++ is actually quite easy to use (once you know how, just like everything really!) so i'll give you and @Starwiz a quick rundown in case it helps: It could be you downloaded the wrong file, but you can get the Windows zip file from here: https://sourceforge.net/projects/starnet/ Once downloaded and extracted, that's it, there's no program that gets installed, you just run the .exe file in the extracted folder. As you have a mono camera, what you need to do is this: 1. Copy your Stack into the same folder as the extracted Starnet++ folder. Let's assume it's your Ha stack and it's simply called 'Ha.tiff'. 2. Right-Click the 'run_mono_starnet.bat' file and choose either 'Edit' or 'Open with Notepad'. 3. Change the coding to this and Save the .bat file: mono_starnet++.exe Ha.tiff Ha-s.tiff 64 pause 3- This will pick up the file 'Ha.tiff' file and create the starless file 'Ha-s.tiff'. Of course, this is just an example, so you can name the files anything you want, but you get the idea. 4. Close the .bat file and Double-Click the 'mono_starnet++.exe' file. The procedure should now start and you should get a percentage meter. If you don't, then either something went wrong (check you have the exact coding, e.g .tif vs .tiff) or your hardware isn't supported (unlikely). It should take about 20 mins or so to complete. ps - For those with colour images, everything is done exactly the same, there is just a different file that you need to click to run the procedure, 'rgb_starnet++.exe'. pps - I haven't actually used Straton myself, so i can't comment on how good it is, but from the limited amount of testing of Starnet++ i've done myself, i can say that it's Neural Network AI wizardry is as close to actual wizardry as you're likely to come across. Long story short, it's pretty darned good. And it's free! 😎

Yeah the Light Pollution Removal tool in APP is the one to use on each, so you're good there. This is a Deep data set. Could be worth posting the raw data and see what some of the SGL gurus can come up with. Then you could zero in on the specifics of what they did.

Looks amazing Adam. Very rich in detail and colour, top stuff 👌 Are you doing gradient reduction on all 3 stacks prior to combining? It's crucial that you do. Vlaiv is also bang on about the background levels. After stretching all 3 channels, just pick an area of no nebulosity and if needs be bring in the black point to make sure the background level of that area is the same in all 3. Seeing as you already have Annie's Actions in PS, you should just use the 'Hubble Palette Creation' action to combine the channels. It does a lot more than just assign the channels to RGB. Finally, I strongly recommend looking into Starnett++ for star removal. It does take about 20 mins per channel, but it's fully automated and the results are FAR superior to the AA action, and with hardly any cleanup needed afterwards. Congrats on an already cracking image!

I think this looks great Adam, nevermind that it's your first full SHO image. I'm just looking on my phone, but i really like your colours. I see you've left some green in there, which I wholeheartedly agree with (to my eye I think it adds tonal depth) so nicely done 👌 I did the Heart myself a couple of years ago now, but only in bi-colour. Having 3 channels makes a big difference to the colours. For star removal, you should check out Starnet++. It's amazing how good a job it does, and it's so easy too. Virtually no spot healing is needed in PS afterwards.

Wow, i think that looks amazing Geof. Despite the capture difficulties, the amount of detail on show is still remarkable. It honestly doesn't look like an image that was captured under those conditions! Well and truly 'in the can' i'd say 👌

Very nice Adam! I agree, it would be a shame not to see all the lovely brown dust you've captured. If the thought of capturing it all seems a bit daunting, then how's about blitzing it with something quick like 8 X 300s (Binned) for just R and B (and synthesize the G). That way, with your dual rig, you could gather enough data for all 4 panels in only ~3 hrs, and it should be enough to get you a nice result.

Hi Hugh I'm not on my computer right now, so I can't check exactly what's going wrong for you, but here is a workaround that should work . Instead of flattening the image, select the top layer and then do a 'Stamp Visible'. I think the shortcut is Ctrl+Shift+Alt+E. This effectively makes a copy of what you see on the screen (which is a product of multiple layers) and copies it into a new layer. Then you can just delete all the layers below. Stamp Visible is so useful in many ways. I'd be lost without it . Hope that helps 😃

Gorgeous. Really like the processing of this. Seeing the dust makes all the difference here. It resides, just like you say, 'through the dust', so bringing it to the fore like this in the final image is just perfect. Bravo!

Very impressive mosaic Ola. I love big mosaics, and this is a triumph. One small piece of feedback if that's ok - i find the contrast a bit too much for my liking. The black point has been slightly clipped in a few places, and in others is also very low. But other than that it is a very impressive mosaic indeed!

Thanks Alan. I went for a Bi-Colour Ha-Oiii approach, was yours an Ha-RGB per chance? The different methods of capture and processing can yield to totally different looking images. I personally love that about AP. 🙂 Thanks John. It's a funny one - it's such an iconic object, so i AM happy that i ended up with an actual image (of sorts), but then the perfectionist in me really hates the low quality & quantity of data i had to work with. So the way i see it, this is just v1. Hopefully i'll have many years ahead of me to try and get some better data (and equipment!) and really do it justice. Totally agree. Adam, it's a tough one for us for sure. And the fact it's a summer target, with no astro dark, only makes it harder. Funnily enough, it was seeing your version last year that actually gave me the courage to even have a go. So thanks for the inspiration! 🙏 Thanks Geof, and sorry for not responding sooner. Summer is a busy time for me, so I've been caught in a 'work-eat-sleep' black hole of late, which hasn't left much time for anything else recently. Really sorry to hear about your Mum 😥 . I have yet to go through the pain of this myself, so i can't offer much of worth i'm afraid, but what i can say is that 92 is a serous innings! Even as a (relatively) young man of 41, i would take that right now if i could. Hope you have some luck on M16 and i look forward to seeing your future work.

I've always wanted to capture this. Trouble is, it's a bit too low down for me really. Plus it's a summer target, and the only time it's visible between the nearby rooftops is when there is no Astro Dark up here at 54 deg N. And i don't really have the focal length to do it justice either, but nothing ventured nothing gained, so last month i made the effort to travel home and set up, in the hope of a few spells of clear sky. This was actually a first light for my (new to me) Qhy163c. I had a window of about 90 mins of Astronomical Twilight and no moon about, but as it turned out i wasted all of that faffing around getting plate-solving to work. Eventually i realised that my initial focus position (marked on the drawtube, and which works every time with my D5300) was slightly off for the Qhy, and it was enough to cause the plate-solving to fail. So by the time i was able to finally start capturing, i was well into Nautical Twilight. In the end i only managed 12 subs of Ha before i had to pack up as it was just way too bright. There was also some high cloud about, and together with the sky brightness it meant that the subs are really only fit for the bin, but this is all the data i have so i'm using them all! lol. The following night, i tried again, but the weather didn't play along at all, and i only managed 4 Oiii cloud-affected subs that night before i gave up. So in total this is just 80 mins, made up of 12 x 300s of Ha and 4 x 300s of Oiii. Every one of terrible quality, but APP managed to at least give me something to work with, before moving into PS for all the heavy-lifting. 80ED, HEQ5-Pro, QHY163c. Image downscaled to 50% to the surprise of no-one! lol Only time will tell if a 12bit camera is right for me in the long term. It's recommended you get at least 60+ subs with these cameras. I'm already having serious doubts that i'll ever manage that amount on any target 😂 M16 is gone from view now for me, so i'm just glad to at least have something to show for it, and i can tick M16 off the list for the time being. C&C welcome, and clear skies!

I'm not a PI user myself. It just looks unnecessarily convoluted to my eyes, and don't get me started on all those names lol 🙄 But just on the subject of star reduction, rather than use MT, you might want to look into a new technique that a certain Adam Block came up with: https://pixinsight.com/forum/index.php?topic=13567.0

Came back and took another look at this and, yep, saw immediately that it was waaay too bright. I know i was intentionally trying to go for bright and bold, but even then it was still way too much. New and vastly improved version now in the OP. Thankfully i had the image saved with the Lum, Colour, and Stars all in their own layers in PS, so it was easy to fix without messing with other elements.

It is indeed big Alan. Although i actually now wish i'd framed it in Landscape, then i might have got the Pelican in the frame too.