Warm room question

[Astrokev]

This may be a daft question -

I've read lots about warm rooms. They sound a great idea, with clear benefits, but how do folks actually heat them, and how much consideration needs to be given to rising heat affecting the air above the obs?

I presume it's best to locate the room away from prime viewing areas (north?) and to insulate, but I'd be interested in some guidance from those more experienced to help my never ending planning of a future RORO.

Thanks

[Helen]

I've got a little oil-filled radiator and a greenhouse heater tube in mine. I've goy the ceiling covered with the foil bubble-wrap insulation and it works remarkably well. It never gets 'hot' in there in the winter, but with proper outside clothes on its usually comfortable.

Helen

[Bizibilder]

Warm rooms ain't warm! They just ain't so cold as outside!!! (and tend to be out of the wind too!!!) Posh folk use the conservatory or garage/kitchen as their warm room and have things like mains power to the observatory.

[pritc]

My warm room walls are insulated with loft insulation.

I used 50mm polystyrene sheets for the roof.The whole lot was then lined with 3mm hardboard.

I also have a 800w radiant heater to take the chill out when I first start viewing.

I fitted two hit & miss air vents to circulate the air.

I have not found a problem with heat thermals from my warm room into the obs.

Without any heat I have a three degree difference in ambient temp between my obs/warmroom

Just remember to keep the obs/warmroom door closed.

Wayne

[brantuk]

"Posh folk use the conservatory or garage/kitchen as their warm room"

Yup - and us "not posh" folk wot can't even speak proper use the out house lol

[martin_h]

I've got one of these in my warm room....

Thermotube Tubular Heater 2ft, 120watt :: Tubular Heaters :: Tubular Heating :: Heating :: CNM Online

Not hot but it takes the edge off a bit.

[Tim]

Seems like most warm rooms aren't that warm

I keep mine comfortable to sit in wearing outdoor clothes. The ambient is 3-5 degrees above the temp in the roll off section, where the temp is 2-3 deg above the outside temp. The 12v lights I use in the warm room give off a pleasant warmth which help keep the chill off.

[garethcnmjones]

I use paraffin heater in the extreme colds....

normally fan heater works but paraffin ones are better at that time.

[Gina]

I use paraffin heater in the extreme colds....

normally fan heater works but paraffin ones are better at that time.

I thought paraffin heaters gave off a lot of moisture which isn't good for any electronics such as computers etc.

[George]

I've been toying with adding a warm room to my obsy but I've put this off for another year. I'll just carry on monitoring from the house via VNC.

BTW paraffin will create horrendous condensation problems as well as the obvious fire risk, if your observatory is insured I'd check the fine print regards open flame heating.

[RobH]

I was planning on a complete obsy rebuild, but have now decided to add an 'L' shaped 'warm room' around the northern and eastern sides instead, as the idea of constructing another metre cube of concrete for the pier base is just too daunting.....once is enough!!

.

I'm thinking of having the northern section very well insulated and separate from the eastern side, which will probably be a storage area, and having it as a truly 'warm' room....

....somewhere I can read a book, have a kip, and brew up a cuppa, but still be next to the scopes (we have a public trail right leading to an estate known to have a few troublemakers, right next to the obsy, and I don't like to leave it unnattended, especially on Friday and Saturday nights).

I'm wondering about the best way to ventilate it, while still keeping thermal isolation.

I was going to build it double skinned, and fill the void with glassfibre insulation.

Rob

[martin_h]

I was going to build it double skinned, and fill the void with glassfibre insulation.

Rob

Thats exactly what I did, double skinned all through but 4" of loft insulation in the warm room - ventilation - like last night - open the door a crack!!

[Gina]

With so many suggesting 4" thickness of insulation and having several rolls of 4" thick loft insulation spare, I've modified my warm room timbers to 4"x1.5" to accommodate the 4" insulation.

[Digz]

Crikey 4" of insulation, I would say that would be plenty!!!

Im currently working on a project which is striving for a very good environmental rating (BREEAM) and as such the design goes above and beyond what the building regs calls for, for thermal insulation (U Values etc). We are using celotex insulation (a rigid board, and fairly expensive) on the whole, but we have areas of mineral wool type insulation. At the most our insulation is around 100mm thick and this probably gives up a 10-15% improvement on Part L 'U' values.

On that basis I would say 4" of insulation would be more than enough and with the heat a person can give off, in a relatively small space, plus a pc / laptop supplementary heating would be small.

Personally, when I get around to building my obs, I dont think I will have a warm room, I will take the opportunity to route back to the house.

[martin_h]

I used 4" of insulation because I used 4"x2" timbers...and yes it gets warm, sat in there last night till 2am with the door open! But you need good insulation in the roof to stop the thermals rising past the scope, I havn't got 4" in the roof because I wanted to keep the height down, so I have 3 layers of camping mat glued to the underside of the roof.

[laser_jock99]

I've been toying with adding a warm room to my obsy but I've put this off for another year. I'll just carry on monitoring from the house via VNC.

Same- here obsy this year, warm room next year. It is likely to be a completly disconected building- maybe even the existing workshop lower down the hill?

[malc-c]

I've used 50mm dense styrene under the floor and 25mm mm white styrene for walls and ceiling. The dividing wall between obs and warm room is also insulated with 25mm styrene, as is the lower half of the sliding door. The glass panel is 20mm sealed double glazed unit from an old door. I've found that there is quite a noticeable difference in temperatures between warm room and obs, cooler in the day time, and warmer at nigh.

Whilst last saturday night / sunday morning the ourside temp was down to 8C, I was warm enough in the warm room to ware just a jumper. The heat from the PC, the PSU for the scope, and my own body heat kept the warm room comfortable. Mind you, come November I think I'll be adding a couple of tube heaters just to take the chill off, especially when it gets to below freezing outside !

[Gina]

I've been thinking hard about insulation for my warm room before I order the timber for it as it depends on the thickness of insulation. I was thinking of using the spare rockwool loft insulation (I have enough to do the walls) BUT rockwool is dreadful stuff to handle as it sheds micro needles which get into your skin if you don't cover up completely. Also it would need a lot of cutting to make it fit (not being a standard loft with 16" between joists).

So I don't fancy the thought of cutting, hanging and fixing rockwool in my warm room and I'm thinking of alternatives. I have quite a lot of polystyrene packaging from the numerous items we've bought in the past plus lots of bubble wrap, which I think would also provide insulation. I don't know if I would have enough to do all the walls and roof so looking for recommendations for low cost sheet/block insulation. Where did you get yours, Malcolm? I think you said in you build thread but that would take a lot of trawling to find.

[pritc]

I've been thinking hard about insulation for my warm room before I order the timber for it as it depends on the thickness of insulation. I was thinking of using the spare rockwool loft insulation (I have enough to do the walls) BUT rockwool is dreadful stuff to handle as it sheds micro needles which get into your skin if you don't cover up completely. Also it would need a lot of cutting to make it fit (not being a standard loft with 16" between joists).

So I don't fancy the thought of cutting, hanging and fixing rockwool in my warm room and I'm thinking of alternatives. I have quite a lot of polystyrene packaging from the numerous items we've bought in the past plus lots of bubble wrap, which I think would also provide insulation. I don't know if I would have enough to do all the walls and roof so looking for recommendations for low cost sheet/block insulation. Where did you get yours, Malcolm? I think you said in you build thread but that would take a lot of trawling to find.

I used loft insulation for warm room and yes it is very messy to install.

Correct face mask needed & fully covered up.

And a shower as soon as I had finished.......

But it is a lot,lot cheaper than poly slabs.Cost me £10(2x£5 rolls)for my warm room.

And it does compress up.I got 200mm insulation to fit into my studwork.

I just spaced my vertical studwork in the warm room 370mm apart to fit a roll.

Wayne

[JamesF]

I've recently put some mineral wool style insulation between the joists of a floor I've lifted, to help stop draughts and cut down noise transmission. It's Wickes own-brand stuff and comes in a roll about four feet high with perferations at the usual joist spacings to make it easy to split in the correct widths.

It's nowhere near as unpleasant to handle as traditional Rockwool though, doesn't seem to spread fibres everywhere and doesn't irritate my skin, though some might suggest that's because I have a hide like a rhino

This is the stuff:

200mm Loft Roll Insulation - Loft Roll Insulation - Insulation -Building Materials - Wickes

James

[Gina]

I used loft insulation for warm room and yes it is very messy to install.

Correct face mask needed & fully covered up.

And a shower as soon as I had finished.......

But it is a lot,lot cheaper than poly slabs.Cost me £10(2x£5 rolls)for my warm room.

And it does compress up.I got 200mm insulation to fit into my studwork.

I just spaced my vertical studwork in the warm room 370mm apart to fit a roll.

Wayne

My warm room would take the 4 double rolls - total 32m x 400mm, which I have. It's 100mm thick which I guess would compress to 75mm if I used that width of timber. I could use whatever polystyrene I have and top up with Rockwool.

[Gina]

I've recently put some mineral wool style insulation between the joists of a floor I've lifted, to help stop draughts and cut down noise transmission. It's Wickes own-brand stuff and comes in a roll about four feet high with perferations at the usual joist spacings to make it easy to split in the correct widths.

It's nowhere near as unpleasant to handle as traditional Rockwool though, doesn't seem to spread fibres everywhere and doesn't irritate my skin, though some might suggest that's because I have a hide like a rhino

This is the stuff:

200mm Loft Roll Insulation - Loft Roll Insulation - Insulation -Building Materials - Wickes

James

A possibility but rather pricey even for the 100mm and their 3 for 1 offer. And if I don't collect it, delivery would nearly double the price.

[martin_h]

Just make sure you dont compress it to much or it will defeat the object....its the air between the fibre that insulates not the fibre itself...and I wouldnt use bubble wrap...could trap moisture and cause damp. The modern stuff you get now is not to bad for handeling, just slice it with a box cutter.

When I got mine there was an offer on BOGOF....worth looking around, I got mine from the local timber yard so had it deliverd with the timbers.

[malc-c]

I don't know if I would have enough to do all the walls and roof so looking for recommendations for low cost sheet/block insulation. Where did you get yours, Malcolm? I think you said in you build thread but that would take a lot of trawling to find.

Hi Gina,

B&Q -

The flooring I used Jablite 50mm insulation.

£15.98 for 4 pieces of 450mm x 1200 x 50mm.

http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav.jsp?action=detail&fh_secondid=10647758&fh_location=//catalog01/en_GB/categories%3C{9372016}/categories%3C{9372050}/categories%3C{9372229}/specificationsProductType=insulation_boards

From memory I used 3 packs with a fair bit of waste (I didn't want to continue to insulate the floor under the obsy - cost approx £48

Then used Standard Jablite styrene sheet 1200 x 450 x 25 - They did have a pack price (8 per pack) for approx £14 a pack, but currently the website has single sheets at £1.98 each

http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav.jsp?action=detail&fh_secondid=9273748&fh_location=//catalog01/en_GB/categories%3C{9372016}/categories%3C{9372050}/categories%3C{9372229}/specificationsProductType=insulation_boards

I used approx 4 packs, to do all 4 walls and ceiling and still have a couple of sheets left over - £56

Total insulation cost just over £100. If you were careful and used a lot of the off-cuts this could be reduced by £15 - £20

[Digz]

Gina, I wouldnt feel comfortable in using bubble wrap or polystyrene packing. I just get the feeling that any moisture that might get in wont be good. I would be tempted to buy some purpose made insulation whether that be a rockwool type or slab.