Choosing between 4" ED Refractors for visual

[AlcorAlly]

1 hour ago, Mr Spock said:

I don't understand that. I just plonk my mount down, attach the scope, and switch it on. Where's the fuss? The fuss is then having to constantly touch manual controls or worse.

Depends how it's stored, doesn't it? If it's on the tripod with weight ready to go, then there's equal amount of fuss for Alt-Az vs EQ. But if the EQ is stored in parts and separate from tripod and other bits then it takes a bit longer. I like both  

[Stu]

This seems to be diverting into an EQ vs Alt Az mount thread, so apologies for continuing in the same vein.

I enjoy EQ mounts, driven in RA for solar, lunar and planetary observing, situations where you are concentrating on one or two objects at high power and want a stable view in order to concentrate. An EQ for visual is, as Michael says, trivial to setup; plonk it down level, facing North with the latitude set correctly and away you go. I do not really enjoy them for star hopping as my brain doesn’t work in RA/Dec! Goto EQs are fine though, my GP-DX with SkySensor 2000pc controller works really well.

For star hopping I much prefer manual AltAz mounts as I find them easier and much more intuitive to use. Many targets are low or medium power too, so tracking is much less of an issue. Goto AltAz is also fine, especially if it is an AZ100 ☺️

[RobertI]

1 hour ago, mikeDnight said:

They're a sketches dream!

Very true. You can be sketching away and the mount will be saying "relax, take your time, no rush, Jupiter will still be there when you get back to the eyepiece". Must surely make for a more relaxing experience and better results. 

Another plus for EQs not always mentioned is their ability to observe at/near the zenith, which is often where the best atmospheric conditions lie. Not always comfortable with a frac though.

[Sunshine]

21 hours ago, quasar117 said:

Is it beneficial or worth it to use an EQ mount over Alt Az  for visual? 

I suppose once set up tracks is a lots easier as you only really need to adjust the RA slomo.

I have used my vixen GP almost strictly for visual, and never bothered to polar align for visual, it has two slomo knobs which I would turn as needed. One future proofing aspect of an equatorial like the Vixen is that motors can be had for fairly cheap, i fixed just one axis motor on mine with a small hand controller for tracking and imaging planets. It’s a simple clutch screw i can engage if i need to and it tracks assuming you are polar aligned. One cannot deny the versatility of a solid eqatorial like the vixen GP, it will easily hold your 102 and will be ready for more if you decide on a larger scope. It is super solid and can be easily and quickly upgraded with a motor or motors, to me, it’s a no brainer. My Vixen GP has been the most versatile item I have purchased in the last decade, it handled every scope i had (except my FS128) haven’t tried that but im sure it could in a pinch, and is so well built. Below you will notice the hand controller and clutch for engaging tracking, and here it is with my Mak 150 preparing for planetary imaging session. When I walked into a local shop and saw the Vixen GP on consignment for $250 CAD I never asked a question, within five minutes I was loading it into my car, best thing I have done.

Edited February 28 by Sunshine

[paulastro]

On 26/02/2024 at 20:49, RobertI said:

The other thing to factor in with the Skytee is you will probably want to buy a replacement saddle; the stock saddles had a habit of failing and the scope falling off (happened to me). I think they have been improved and probably much better now, but many people (including myself) replace one of them typically with an ADM. Perhaps other people with more recent Skytees can chime in here. 

I bought the StellaLyra version of the Skytee11 about two months ago.  Tried both tube clamps and neither of them sprung apart.  I was concerned about this myself having used a Skytee Mk1 many years ago.  I bought the StellazLyra version as I thought it might have some better componenents specified than the Skytee versions, though I haven't been able to compare them directly.  The FLO version was thirty pounds cheaper than the SkyTee11 when I bought it, and came with two counterweights instead of one.

I did buy a longer ADM clamp for one side, but this was because the longer clamps are better for balancing heavier scopes - such as my Askar 103 apo triplet which is f7.  Having said that, it did seem secure on the two shorter clamps also.

[mikeDnight]

4 hours ago, Sunshine said:

I have used my vixen GP almost strictly for visual, and never bothered to polar align for visual, it has two slomo knobs which I would turn as needed. One future proofing aspect of an equatorial like the Vixen is that motors can be had for fairly cheap, i fixed just one axis motor on mine with a small hand controller for tracking and imaging planets. It’s a simple clutch screw i can engage if i need to and it tracks assuming you are polar aligned. One cannot deny the versatility of a solid eqatorial like the vixen GP, it will easily hold your 102 and will be ready for more if you decide on a larger scope. It is super solid and can be easily and quickly upgraded with a motor or motors, to me, it’s a no brainer. My Vixen GP has been the most versatile item I have purchased in the last decade, it handled every scope i had (except my FS128) haven’t tried that but im sure it could in a pinch, and is so well built. Below you will notice the hand controller and clutch for engaging tracking, and here it is with my Mak 150 preparing for planetary imaging session. When I walked into a local shop and saw the Vixen GP on consignment for $250 CAD I never asked a question, within five minutes I was loading it into my car, best thing I have done.

Skywatcher EQ5 and Bresser motors also work well with the Vixen GP's, so no need to worry about sourcing motor drives as they're readily available. 😊

[quasar117]

Sorry about the slow reply been a busy day. Wow there's a lot to catch up on on this thread!

@Sunshine ever since I saw your Vixen GP can't help but think that's what I'm really after.

GEM mounts seem to make more sense to me having used an EQ6R-PRO for some time.  

The Vixen GP balances quick setup and accurate and easy tracking which is what I want- as I would sooner observe one object for a long duration than dart between objects.

What mounting thread form does the Vixen GP use please? I currently have M10 thread on the Uni28.

[dweller25]

The Vixen GP also uses M10 👍🙂

[John]

I fitted the Vixen GP and the GP-DX to my EQ5/HEQ5 compatible Uni 28 without any issues. That has an M10 screw.

The EQ5 was more or less a copy of the GP so probably not a surprise.

[quasar117]

Hopefully I can obtain one before the Starfield arrives!

[quasar117]

I really do appreciate all the help chaps, thanks a lot 👍

[quasar117]

[quasar117]

Mostly there now....just need a finder

[Elp]

Get a Rigel quikfinder or a telrad. I don't like squinting through those tiny finders.

[quasar117]

22 minutes ago, Elp said:

Get a Rigel quikfinder or a telrad. I don't like squinting through those tiny finders.

Would either of those have to stick on the OTA or can the baseplates fit on the tube ring fixing points?

[Elp]

9 minutes ago, quasar117 said:

Would either of those have to stick on the OTA or can the baseplates fit on the tube ring fixing points?

With the Rigel I leave it's supplied baseplate on and use a thin velcro strap, baseplate against lip of dew shield then strap down. Takes seconds and you can then align the reticule in the Rigel to a reference centred target. I like this over a finder as you can sort of use it with both eyes open and you're obviously taking in the widefield view at the same time so it's much much easier to find things. The reticules are also in degrees for more accurate star hopping once you have to move the scope aways from a star to find your target. But you've got it on a EQ mount so the process is slightly different.

[Ratlet]

3 hours ago, Elp said:

With the Rigel I leave it's supplied baseplate on and use a thin velcro strap, baseplate against lip of dew shield then strap down. Takes seconds and you can then align the reticule in the Rigel to a reference centred target. I like this over a finder as you can sort of use it with both eyes open and you're obviously taking in the widefield view at the same time so it's much much easier to find things. The reticules are also in degrees for more accurate star hopping once you have to move the scope aways from a star to find your target. But you've got it on a EQ mount so the process is slightly different.

If you are willing to wait a few days I can 3D print a bracket that you can attach to the finder ring, if you don't want to stick it to the tube.

I bought an svbony handle and 3D printed a finder shoe adapter for my quick finder.  The finder attaches to the handle.

[Elp]

1 hour ago, Ratlet said:

If you are willing to wait a few days I can 3D print a bracket that you can attach to the finder ring, if you don't want to stick it to the tube.

I bought an svbony handle and 3D printed a finder shoe adapter for my quick finder.  The finder attaches to the handle.

Thanks for the offer, it's okay. I haven't felt the need to design and print a bracket for this as my method works fine, also as I don't do visual that much is also another reason.

[Ratlet]

1 hour ago, Elp said:

Thanks for the offer, it's okay. I haven't felt the need to design and print a bracket for this as my method works fine, also as I don't do visual that much is also another reason.

Coolio.  Offer stands for others also.  I love an excuse to fire up the 3D printer.  Just upgraded the mini to input shaping so it rattles them of quick.

Must say @quasar117 your setup looks lovely.  Need to recover and get my az5 replaced with something functional.

[quasar117]

23 hours ago, Ratlet said:

Coolio.  Offer stands for others also.  I love an excuse to fire up the 3D printer.  Just upgraded the mini to input shaping so it rattles them of quick.

Must say @quasar117 your setup looks lovely.  Need to recover and get my az5 replaced with something functional.

Thanks!

I'll have a think and let you know as I'm decided between either a Telrad or Baader skysurfer III.

[Mr Spock]

Here was mine:

[Ratlet]

17 minutes ago, Mr Spock said:

Here was mine:

I was going to make a sepearate post to ask, but really it was your input I was looking for, and you've gone an posted a picture of both articles!

I'm looking for something to upgrade the mount from my inadequate AZ5 and I'm about 90% certain that you used your EQ5 it with a motor for tracking?  I'm thinking something with tracking (for sektching), but not goto.  For some reason I prefer hunting targets down or just using starsense where as fighting with goto makes my blood boil.

Basically I'm wondering how accurate you needed to be with the polar alignment to get decent tracking?  I've got a GEM28 but with the ipolar and full goto it feels like it would take longer to setup than an EQ5 with a single motor for tracking. (As an aside I did get the scope on the GEM28 once, but it clouded over.  All I managed to confirm was that I could comfortably use the starsense on an EQ mount)

Do you need to do a full polar alignment with a setup like yours or is it a case of setup properly once and then get it north enough?

EDIT:  Should probably mention that this is the picture that made me want a Starfield lol.

 

Edited March 25 by Ratlet

[Mr Spock]

5 minutes ago, Ratlet said:

I'm about 90% certain that you used your EQ5 it with a motor for tracking?  I'm thinking something with tracking (for sektching), but not goto. 

EQ5 with motors is perfect. I wanted tracking but without all the goto faff.

 

5 minutes ago, Ratlet said:

Do you need to do a full polar alignment with a setup like yours or is it a case of setup properly once and then get it north enough?

I just plonk it down on the patio.  Once set up you don't need to touch it.

[Ratlet]

7 minutes ago, Mr Spock said:

EQ5 with motors is perfect. I wanted tracking but without all the goto faff.

 

I just plonk it down on the patio.  Once set up you don't need to touch it.

Cheers.  Perfect.  I'm a big fan of plonk and play setups.

[bosun21]

16 hours ago, Ratlet said:

Cheers.  Perfect.  I'm a big fan of plonk and play setups.

I have used the Starfield on all the various modalities of the EQ5 mount. For plonk and point it's better to mark the points of the tripod legs on the ground making it quicker and easier for subsequent setups. When I used the tracking motors without go to I found that just getting Polaris in the polar scope FOV was sufficient for a nights observing. I placed three golf tees in the grass marking the tripod legs. I however seem to be a bit of an outlier in that I love go to. If set up correctly it works every time and allows me to spend the saved time at the eyepiece.