ZWO Seestar 50

[LDW1]

1 hour ago, paulastro said:

It doesn't mean because some people disagree with your point of view that  they are ' part of today's crowd of know it all astronomers  (who) just don't like to be told ufortunately! '.  The fact you have resorted to such insults does no credit to yourself or your arguments.  

I guess thats the way life is you say it your way and I say it mine, I don't mince words after 76 yrs and I'm goin with my thoughts, every time !  Until some one proves me wrong I'm stickin with Ed !

[LDW1]

5 minutes ago, Priesters said:

😔 darn it, think I’ll sell up.  I never thought of that.
 

Or alternatively maybe I just enjoy the process and have got to a point where I’m happy with the outcome.  I’ve also never heard any photographer of any type refuse to take a photo just because someone else has snapped it already.  Anyhow, this thread is already getting a bit tasty without me adding an imagers v visual barney 😉.  We’ll be going all Cloudy Nights next.

If you think those guys on CN are any better, more gentler maybe I say go for it, lol !

[LDW1]

38 minutes ago, Elp said:

I'm not on the SS crew (yet) but the review came across negative from the start, nothing like his other videos that I've seen with his upbeat attitude. Take from that what you will. I did agree to some of his points, but you can't argue with the fact he compared the SS default output to a fully post processed expensive rig setup image (other than the one image he showed processed by a friend). That is misrepresentation. My images straight out of my "expensive" rig certainly doesnt show clear nebulosity on M45 straight from camera or even with the histogram preview slider changes whilst it's imaging.

If he is a "true expert" he should have done a like for like process comparison like others have done.

He is a true expert, he doesn't try to coddle anyone incl the beginers that like to be, lol !  Just to justify what they have yet to learn !

[LDW1]

8 minutes ago, Gfamily said:

Actual cloudy nights is probably why this has expanded to almost 60 pages.

I doubt it !

[Elp]

For a review he didn't even explain that the SS has two imaging modes, without filter and a narrowband ha/o3 filter, not an expert review by any measure. Other YTs have defined this feature in theirs. Maybe this may have impacted on the results he was getting? Also local LP will also have an impact, Cuiv was very clear on his imaging conditions whenever he's uploaded a video on it.

[LDW1]

15 minutes ago, Elp said:

For a review he didn't even explain that the SS has two imaging modes, without filter and a narrowband ha/o3 filter, not an expert review by any measure. Other YTs have defined this feature in theirs. Maybe this may have impacted on the results he was getting? Also local LP will also have an impact, Cuiv was very clear on his imaging conditions whenever he's uploaded a video on it.

Ed's not in the business to touch on every little frill, he never has, he leaves that up to all the other myriad of experts that like to paint in what should be standard on any scope, filters being one of them, why would he want to point them out again !  As with any true, knowledgeable astronomer that should be understood, not some sort of surprising add on, filters are an intregal part of astronomy, we all know that incl beginers, by now hopefully !  As for Cuiv, he is an entertainer, he has his own website and he solicites contributions, Ed doesn't have to, ever, he tells us ........... !

Edited March 28 by LDW1

[ONIKKINEN]

39 minutes ago, LDW1 said:

Until some one proves me wrong I'm stickin with Ed !

You can quite easily prove yourself wrong by trying to build a go-to platesolving astrophotography rig for under 500£.

You will find this to be impossible, and the Seestar is the only viable option (maybe some of the other smart scopes too, not upto date on pricing of other models).

This whole discussion is meaningless if we dont take the pricetag into account, and we should as it is one of the most important factors.

[LDW1]

5 minutes ago, ONIKKINEN said:

You can quite easily prove yourself wrong by trying to build a go-to platesolving astrophotography rig for under 500£.

You will find this to be impossible, and the Seestar is the only viable option (maybe some of the other smart scopes too, not upto date on pricing of other models).

This whole discussion is meaningless if we dont take the pricetag into account, and we should as it is one of the most important factors.

Where will this discussion end, it just deviates in any every direction around and around in circles, lol !  Ed laid out exactly what he wanted to and if you read it enough times and put some thought into various aspects you will see his meaning, many don't want to and don't care to !  Nothing changes yet I enjoy my SS's and as I have said I am sure Ed does as well !

[Oortraged]

Heya folks, it has been an interesting read catching up with this thread since ordering, receiving, and having had chance to spend about a month with the S50!

I hope you don't mind me shifting direction of the thread with a brief observing report from tonight. Was thrilled to have some clear skies, and have chance to take some images to share with loved ones. 

So, I'll start with the best image of the evening! M51. I have a little postage stamp of a garden, that faces roughly NNE. Weather report seemed to show that trying to get out into the wild tonight would have been touch and go, so this and all the rest come from my Bortle 4 garden. M51 shows 53 minutes of data in the time stamp. This took about 2 hours to collect in reality, with some high level cloud and star trailing issues confounding the S50 stacking more. I have the raw frames for the whole evening though, and look forward to learning how to process them

Next best image of the evening was M97. There are some star trailing artefacts on this image, but once again its just the live stack from the S50. Targets were few and far between in the garden tonight, and almost all of then at or close to zenith. Obviously a challenge for any device only moving in 2 axis in a fixed alt az set up. 

I already had 1 hour of data on M81, but some forum trawling  showed me I had missed a trick, and could have got M82 into the frame as well. Well, I've had a week of rain to ruminate on my failing there! Alas, both objects soon eluded the gaze of the scope, flanked, as they are, by the neighbours houses! I have to say, as short on data as it is, and how bad the framing may be, I love the composition of this shot.

And now, moving progressively from bad to awful, may I introduce you to my attempt at M108. I'd hoped to be able to get enough of this for a friend, who is a keen surfer, to make a birthday card. Even with cropping, I don't think I'll get something satisfactory! The field rotation is pretty impressive for how truncated the data collection was - but at least I caught some photons

Finally, a very tiny set of 6 x 10 second subs on M94. This was enough to notice the streetlight next to it ruining the attempt! 

All told, 6 of the Messier objects on an evening where the forecast made me sure it wasn't worth going out. I completely understand that the S50 isn't a device that will please everyone (and indeed, does such a thing exist?). To offer an analogy, however: I enjoy balancing the carbs on my VFR400. And my enjoyment of doing so is in no way diminished by the fact that others enjoy riding fuel injected bikes.

Clear skies all,

Ryan

[Geoff Lister]

10 hours ago, ONIKKINEN said:

the Seestar is the only viable option (maybe some of the other smart scopes too, not upto date on pricing of other models).

I have both the Seestar and Dwarf II. The Seestar is (just) better for astro, but the Dwarf is a better all-rounder for astro and things like birdwatching, because of its dual wide-angle/telephoto setup - effectively a built-in, intelligent, finder.

The Dwarf in its bag with accessories is about the same volume and weight as my 10x50 binoculars in their case. The cased Seestar is larger and heavier, but I have added external strapping and D-rings to the case so that I can cary it with the over-shoulder strap from the Dwarf.

I find the Seestar's app more user-friendly - with the Dwarf, I have to reset the exposure time after each GoTo. The Seestar gathers 4-times the number of photons.

With app/firmware updates for both being released at roughly monthly intervals, this is a race from which we can all benefit.

Geoff

 

[paulastro]

4 hours ago, Oortraged said:

Heya folks, it has been an interesting read catching up with this thread since ordering, receiving, and having had chance to spend about a month with the S50!

I hope you don't mind me shifting direction of the thread with a brief observing report from tonight. Was thrilled to have some clear skies, and have chance to take some images to share with loved ones. 

So, I'll start with the best image of the evening! M51. I have a little postage stamp of a garden, that faces roughly NNE. Weather report seemed to show that trying to get out into the wild tonight would have been touch and go, so this and all the rest come from my Bortle 4 garden. M51 shows 53 minutes of data in the time stamp. This took about 2 hours to collect in reality, with some high level cloud and star trailing issues confounding the S50 stacking more. I have the raw frames for the whole evening though, and look forward to learning how to process them

Next best image of the evening was M97. There are some star trailing artefacts on this image, but once again its just the live stack from the S50. Targets were few and far between in the garden tonight, and almost all of then at or close to zenith. Obviously a challenge for any device only moving in 2 axis in a fixed alt az set up. 

I already had 1 hour of data on M81, but some forum trawling  showed me I had missed a trick, and could have got M82 into the frame as well. Well, I've had a week of rain to ruminate on my failing there! Alas, both objects soon eluded the gaze of the scope, flanked, as they are, by the neighbours houses! I have to say, as short on data as it is, and how bad the framing may be, I love the composition of this shot.

And now, moving progressively from bad to awful, may I introduce you to my attempt at M108. I'd hoped to be able to get enough of this for a friend, who is a keen surfer, to make a birthday card. Even with cropping, I don't think I'll get something satisfactory! The field rotation is pretty impressive for how truncated the data collection was - but at least I caught some photons

Finally, a very tiny set of 6 x 10 second subs on M94. This was enough to notice the streetlight next to it ruining the attempt! 

All told, 6 of the Messier objects on an evening where the forecast made me sure it wasn't worth going out. I completely understand that the S50 isn't a device that will please everyone (and indeed, does such a thing exist?). To offer an analogy, however: I enjoy balancing the carbs on my VFR400. And my enjoyment of doing so is in no way diminished by the fact that others enjoy riding fuel injected bikes.

Clear skies all,

Ryan

On the contrary, I'm delighted to see an observing report on this forum.  

Lately it's been  hijacked by a few people (mostly traditional imagers with extensive kit) telling folks who are using  and enjoying the S50  that we don't know what we are doing and wasting our money.

It's the best waste of money Ive ever spent 😊.

Anyway thanks for your post, it shows what can be done in difficult and trying conditions.

[Bazz]

2 hours ago, paulastro said:

On the contrary, I'm delighted to see an observing report on this forum.  

Lately it's been  hijacked by a few people (mostly traditional imagers with extensive kit) telling folks who are using  and enjoying the S50  that we don't know what we are doing and wasting our money.

It's the best waste of money Ive ever spent 😊.

Anyway thanks for your post, it shows what can be done in difficult and trying conditions.

Well said. 👍

[Geoff Lister]

2 hours ago, paulastro said:

It's the best waste of money Ive ever spent 😊.

+1

[Oortraged]

3 hours ago, paulastro said:

On the contrary, I'm delighted to see an observing report on this forum.  

Lately it's been  hijacked by a few people (mostly traditional imagers with extensive kit) telling folks who are using  and enjoying the S50  that we don't know what we are doing and wasting our money.

It's the best waste of money Ive ever spent 😊.

Anyway thanks for your post, it shows what can be done in difficult and trying conditions.

Cheers Paul. I do empathise with both sides of the conversation in truth, and many of the the points that are raised disparagingly toward the S50 are ones that I had with myself over the course of months prior to purchase. Since ownership, all such concerns have dissolved in the joy of being able to view and share these objects with friends and family.

I'm very new to the hobby compared to many. I started pursuing it in anger in my early twenties, and am 36 now. I'm very aware of the fact I am standing on the shoulders of giants in how accessible the night sky is through this sort of equipment.

Equally, I recall being dissuaded from a goto as my first mount at my first Astronomy Soc - first, I rather ought to 'learn the night sky with binoculars and star hopping'. Many pleasurable evenings were had off the back of this advice, and the skills I learnt are used every night I observe - be it with the S50 or visually with the ED80 and azgti. However, the S50 is as nuanced an instrument as the Dob I started with: the challenges and opportunities to learn and grow as an observer remain as potent, it is just the medium which has developed. 

One of the greatest pleasures of this hobby is that there is space for every approach and perspective on it - a whole universe of room for all of us! I thank those who have the means and commitment to have invested in dedicated rigs (particularly those who have subscribed to the ZWO ecosystem) for supporting the development of devices such as the S50. I greatly value their feedback, guidance and experience in collaboration with all of us enjoying looking up at the night sky, through what ever means we are able.

[GasGiant]

On 27/03/2024 at 21:54, 900SL said:

Feel free to post an example astounding image, with supporting details to confirm it is from a Seestar. 

Depends on your perspective of astounding. Im 56 years of age. Until I got a seestar I had never seen a spiral galaxy, nebular or sun spots. I think to get to see these, for 500 quid is astounding.

 

 

 

[PeterStudz]

15 minutes ago, GasGiant said:

Depends on your perspective of astounding. Im 56 years of age. Until I got a seestar I had never seen a spiral galaxy, nebular or sun spots. I think to get to see these, for 500 quid is astounding.

 

 

 

This gets back to the difference between observational astronomy & astrophotography/anything that involves using a camera. To me they are very different things, but as others have said… maybe best not to go there 😀

And I have “seen” a spiral galaxy, nebula & sunspots with my old iPhone 12 slapped to the eyepiece of a telescope that cost £150. Sure, most of the images were a bit pants but they allowed me to “see” them. 

 

[DaveL59]

It's also a matter of perspective, when you look back at early images I'd bet folk thought those were 'astounding' too

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrophotography#:~:text=The first photograph of a,s 15 inch Great refractor.

Of course modern gear has advanced what is achievable compared to the film era and with lots of time and effort we've seen some great images from others here. The fact that something like the S50 is now available to make it easier for those of us who don't have that time or budget (or inclination) has opened up new areas for those who've bought one to explore that was perhaps beyond their abilities/facilities.

In part I got mine as a cheap/easy EEVA which could also capture images to share with family. Does exactly what I'd wanted and adds the bonus of solar if I ever get the time and clear days to try that out. I'd never have done so otherwise given my potential for migraines looking at bright objects.

[Oortraged]

3 minutes ago, DaveL59 said:

It's also a matter of perspective, when you look back at early images I'd bet folk thought those were 'astounding' too

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrophotography#:~:text=The first photograph of a,s 15 inch Great refractor.

Of course modern gear has advanced what is achievable compared to the film era and with lots of time and effort we've seen some great images from others here. The fact that something like the S50 is now available to make it easier for those of us who don't have that time or budget (or inclination) has opened up new areas for those who've bought one to explore that was perhaps beyond their abilities/facilities.

In part I got mine as a cheap/easy EEVA which could also capture images to share with family. Does exactly what I'd wanted and adds the bonus of solar if I ever get the time and clear days to try that out. I'd never have done so otherwise given my potential for migraines looking at bright objects.

That's such a cool image Dave! Genuinely phenomenal where we've got to in 144 years since that shot. Especially given that people must have had far better visual observations even through relatively modest contemporary scopes!

As with most things in the UK, the main source of disagreement in these conversations is the weather - if we were in Arizona I'm sure we'd be too busy with what we were looking at to worry about what everyone else was looking through (although, the exception that proves the rule may be the CN forums 😂).

Ryan

[DaveL59]

Thanks Ryan. It's all too easy to forget the journey both visual and astrophotography and other forms have been on over a long period of time. We take for granted what our modern era tech gives us. I'm sure few would regret having bought one of those 50-60s era 40-60mm scopes and eyepiece kits in younger years and got their first views of the planets, for example. Many of those now have very much more expensive gear I'm sure and far better views as a result, but would they have gotten the bug and that expensive gear had they not at some point early on bit the bullet?

Likewise the argument of learning the sky, star-hopping etc. Sure if you've the time and patience but when decent goto gear is available you can short that loop and have a chance to enjoy that time instead spent looking at stuff. I fall into that category, goto and starsense explorer means the little time I do get to spend gets me to target rather then frustratingly failing to find it. My eyes tend to be tired at the end of a day working at a computer screen which doesn't help and lately I note that my right which I tend to observe with is perhaps not quite as bright and sharp as my left (hence the S50 for EEVA). Perhaps time to go for another 10+ yearly eye test 😉 

Same with the smartscope vs build-yer-own. I probably could do the latter but would it be worthwhile for the time I can spend when there's no possibility of a permanent setup? For me, no, but the S50 does what I want/need so that was an easy decision. Would I upgrade, maybe if something that's a major step up comes along, or maybe not, time will tell.

Now if anyone wants to take the above as 'someone with little experience yet thinks they're an expert', feel free. I'm not and don't claim to be, know my limitations but enjoy what I do get to do/try when time and weather permits. isn't that a major part of the point of why we spend all those £/$ on all this gear we 'collect'? 🙂 

Edited March 29 by DaveL59

[Geoff Lister]

I like the way that the S50 shows me things that I would not have considered with a purely visual setup. Whilst imaging a magnitude 9 or 10 faint fuzzy, if I select "Mark" other circles often appear, and these are gradually filled by a magnitude 13/14/15 even fainter fuzzy that I would have little chance of seeing, even with my GoTo 10" Dob.

I'm sure that Galileo would have given his eye teeth for an S50 and Android tablet.

I think it is going to take many generations of genetic mutation before someone is born with low-light color vision, and a stacking retina - until then we have the S50.

Geoff

Edited March 29 by Geoff Lister
typo

[Bazz]

On 28/03/2024 at 16:01, 900SL said:

He's in a minority for sure. The minority of highly experienced well heeled telescope connoisseurs who also dabble in astrophotography who know their sheet.  😉 

 

I think a certain amount of snobbery and purchase cost justification of high end equipment versus this brilliant little scope comes into play here.

[900SL]

1 minute ago, Bazz said:

I think a certain amount of snobbery and purchase cost justification of high end equipment versus this brilliant little scope comes into play here.

I think the reverse is more correct. The pitchfork crowd up in arms because Ed told it as he saw it (through his high end equipment )

But, and as I've said previously, for the cost, the Seestar is hard to beat for a P&S Do it all. Just not my bag. I got way better images with an old Nikon DSLR and tracker when I first started, and learned about finding targets, focusing etc. Maybe I'm a masochist though

[glafnazur]

1 hour ago, DaveL59 said:

 

Likewise the argument of learning the sky, star-hopping etc. Sure if you've the time and patience but when decent goto gear is available you can short that loop and have a chance to enjoy that time instead spent looking at stuff.

 

Whilst I understand people want to jump straight in with goto I must say that I thoroughly enjoyed my time learning the sky, using binoculars and then star hopping with an 8" newt. For me it isn't just looking through an eyepiece or taking an image, it is seeing the whole beauty of the sky. Just looking up and seeing the constellations and greeting them like old friends as the seasons change, giving an 'ooh' as the odd sporadic meteor shoots overhead, enjoying the different colours of  stars with the naked eye and thinking how amazing and magical it must have seemed to our ancestors all those thousands of years ago. 

[LDW1]

5 minutes ago, Bazz said:

I think a certain amount of snobbery and purchase cost justification of high end equipment versus this brilliant little scope comes into play here.

It sure is the lazy mans way of doing astronomy without knowing anything about anything and with reems and reams of answers to go with it as to why, even if they don't really know what they are looking at, lol !  I agree !   PS:  And like everything else they don't care, just put their hand out for whatever takes the fancy, lol !

[LDW1]

5 minutes ago, 900SL said:

I think the reverse is more correct. The pitchfork crowd up in arms because Ed told it as he saw it (through his high end equipment )

But, and as I've said previously, for the cost, the Seestar is hard to beat for a P&S Do it all. Just not my bag. I got way better images with an old Nikon DSLR and tracker when I first started, and learned about finding targets, focusing etc. Maybe I'm a masochist though

Don't say that too loud or it might spoil your Easter, lol !