# What is 0 ?

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Posted (edited)

In my very hazy state this morning thinking about spur gear counts (sad really),  I thought is there a zero tooth. Or as with a clock 24 and 0 become the sameness as seemingly no matter how smaller time division you apply there comes a point where 24/0 are as one… So if I have 144 teeth on my gear is the 144th gear both 144 & 0 ?

Now to think about the single start worm wheel to drive it…

Edited by fwm891
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If you call the first tooth 0 then in a 144 tooth gear, the last tooth would be 143. If you called the first tooth 1 then the last would be 144, or am I not getting what you are meaning   I guess it is a bit similar to compass points 360 and 0. Maybe make it easier and just call it top dead centre

The single tooth on a worm wheel always makes me smile.

Jim

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• 3 weeks later...

0 is what I see in my account after having been on FLO website!

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0 clear nights in Essex !

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2 minutes ago, knobby said:

0 clear nights in Essex !

Same in Watford!

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4 hours ago, Roy Challen said:

Same in Watford!

Must be an M25 thing 😂

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• 1 month later...

0 was/is a concept or theory or something. Not 100% sure that is can exist. Likely a mathematical idea to make at least some of the maths easier.

A 24 hour clock is not 24 hours. At 23hrs, 59 min, 59 secs the next "time" is 0:00. There is no 24.

We have a habit of starting a count at 1, not 0.

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7 minutes ago, PEMS said:

A 24 hour clock is not 24 hours. At 23hrs, 59 min, 59 secs the next "time" is 0:00. There is no 24.

That's a limitation of clocks. Midnight is 24:00:00 and the smallest amount of time measurable after that is 00:00:00.

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On 27/06/2023 at 18:04, PEMS said:

0 was/is a concept or theory or something. Not 100% sure that is can exist. Likely a mathematical idea to make at least some of the maths easier.

A 24 hour clock is not 24 hours. At 23hrs, 59 min, 59 secs the next "time" is 0:00. There is no 24.

We have a habit of starting a count at 1, not 0.

Superposition 24:00 and 00:00 are the same state.

Jim

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A 24 hour clock tracks time up to 24 hours, so is aptly named, it then resets to count the next 24 hours.

We need 0 to count things and not to start at 1, example I currently have 0 bananas in my hand (as per the song**).

Numbers can also be negative but I have never had -1 banana(s) in my hand. Though as a coder I could say I have null bananas.

All of which reminds me that I need to buy some more bananas.😀

** "Yes! We Have No Bananas"

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, saac said:

Superposition 24:00 and 00:00 are the same state.

Jim

It's an example of a modulo sequence.  Another example is the 0 to 360 degrees in a circle ( or 0  to 2pi radians). 5 mod(ulo) 4 is 1 etc.

It crops up a lot in symmetries in physics. There is even one particle property that needs a 4pi rotation to get to its starting point (twice round the circle) ! Sad to say I can't recall which.

Regards Andrew

It's spin 1/2 particles.  They have a phase shift of -1 for 360 deg rotation and need another loop round to get back to 1

Edited by andrew s
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1 hour ago, andrew s said:

There is even one particle property that needs a 4pi rotation to get to its starting point (twice round the circle) ! Sad to say I can't recall which

graviton

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4 minutes ago, Zermelo said:

graviton

I don't think so as it's a spin 1 particle and 2pi rotation does it. Regards Andrew

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1 minute ago, andrew s said:

I don't think so as it's a spin 1 particle and 2pi rotation does it. Regards Andrew

It's spin 2 (if it exists at all)

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2 hours ago, Zermelo said:

It's spin 2 (if it exists at all)

Yes your right just a 180 deg (pi) rotation brings it back to the same state .

Regards Andrew

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What is 0?

It is the only thing that stands between + and - !

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Posted (edited)

I highly recommend The Book of Nothing by the late John D Barrow.  It is as erudite as one would expect of the man occupying Newton's chair at Cambridge and yet is as approachable and entertaining as can be.  He points out, for example, that nothing really matters...

Olly

Edit: A practical example of the original conundrum would be a start and finish line...  Which is it???

Edited by ollypenrice
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34 minutes ago, ollypenrice said:

A practical example of the original conundrum would be a start and finish line...  Which is it???

Both, the same thing can have more than one lable.

You can be both a father and son.

Regards Andrew

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21 minutes ago, andrew s said:

Both, the same thing can have more than one lable.

You can be both a father and son.

Regards Andrew

Indeed.  I dare say that anything cyclical has a variant of 0/24 or start/finish etc.  A spiral is just a circle repeated in an addtional dimension... is it?  (I'm useless at this kind of thing.)

Olly

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Watched this last night on BBC iplayer;

Magic Mumbers: Hannah Fry's Mysterious World of Maths

Touches on where 0 came from.

Peter

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I’m currently on a short break doing precisely nothing so found this appropriate reading material in a second hand book store.

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I have something to say about your theory, Mr Smith: there is nothing to be said for it.

lly

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On 01/07/2023 at 12:33, StevieDvd said:

A 24 hour clock tracks time up to 24 hours, so is aptly named, it then resets to count the next 24 hours.

We need 0 to count things and not to start at 1, example I currently have 0 bananas in my hand (as per the song**).

Numbers can also be negative but I have never had -1 banana(s) in my hand. Though as a coder I could say I have null bananas.

All of which reminds me that I need to buy some more bananas.😀

** "Yes! We Have No Bananas"

You bringing up negative bananas, null bananas and programming reminds me of a joke.

"The developer walks into the bar, orders a beer, orders 10 beers, orders -1 beers, orders fjedfjdiofjiowejfwe, and leaves. The QA tester walks into the bar, asks where the toilets are and the bar catches fire"

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16 minutes ago, pipnina said:

"The developer walks into the bar, orders a beer, orders 10 beers, orders -1 beers, orders fjedfjdiofjiowejfwe, and leaves. The QA tester walks into the bar, asks where the toilets are and the bar catches fire"

Being a developer - it actually took me quite a bit of time in order to understand the joke

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Did I need to google that joke? = 1

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