Observing with an eq mount - first time in a while

[RobertI]

I’ve just come in from a session, mainly observing Jupiter. Unfortunately seeing wasn’t fabulous, although I could see the GRS and some festoons and some lovely colour. For the first time in a LONG time I used my old non-goto CG5 equatorial mount to see whether tracking would improve my observing of Jupiter. Eq mounts can take a little more time to set up over an altaz and can be awkward to use, but I thought the tracking might be worth it. I was quite excited to get then CG5 out again after so long and I was reminded of the great times I had with my 6” newt on an Eq mount when I first started out decades ago, so I was hopeful.  Well, having spent a couple of hours tonight using the 102ED on my CG5, I have a verdict; if I am concentrating on just one object, eg planets or moon, and I need my hands free to sketch, then yes it’s worth it. But if I am not going to sketch and I have hands free to nudge or twist slo mos, then it’s not worth it. And if I am going to be viewing several objects in different parts of the sky, then it’s a monumental pain in the butt! The variation in height, odd eyepiece angles and twisting of the focuser needed, was just a pain. And at one point the binoviewers ended up at an angle and immediately twisted round and ended up pointing to the ground because something was not tight enough  - thank heavens it was firmly attached to the diagonal! Perhaps if I used the CG5 every session, I might be happier to use it, but it was so clunky to use compared to altaz mounts, I’m not sure I’ll be rushing to use it again! 

[Sunshine]

From what I gather you’re saying you would not enjoy the EQ mount when viewing multiple objects in a session? I have to agree with the pain in the butt comment. When using my non goto Vixen GP (which I love) I literally end up in every position you can imagine during a session, tightening and twisting the click lock a hundred times on my knees, butt, stomach lol  looking near zenith. Fortunately, I often get so absorbed with targets for 20 min at a time that it softens the blow a bit, a respite between contortions. Having said all this, I do have a high end alt az mount but I’m not crazy about using it for one reason, i love doubles and I love how they look at high powers, I simply cannot nudge the scope smoothly at high powers without my star suddenly disappearing which leaves me endlessly nudging to find it again. This is where I love the smooth slow motion controls on my Vixen, yes it’s a pain but for doubles I need it’s slo motion controls. 

Edited September 18, 2022 by Sunshine

[Stu]

I’m totally with you @RobertI! I really enjoy EQ mounts for Lunar, Solar and planetary observing, particularly only one or two objects in a session. You can get into a comfortable position which doesn’t change dramatically and have the benefit of tracking to give you a good steady view.

I’ve had plenty of sessions with my Tak on either a Vixen GP or GP-DX where I’ve observed the Sun from morning through until evening, mount gently tracking away with its simple dual axis drives, and have then swung the mount back around again (no need to reverse the scope), swapped the Herschel Wedge for a diagonal and then had a great session on the Moon. Really simple and relaxing.

So for me yes, EQ for those targets along the ecliptic, but give me a dark site and the opportunity to star hop to lots of different targets and it’s Alt Az all the way for me. I just cannot star hop with an EQ mount; my brain turns to jelly and dribbles out of my ears 😜, even though some people whose brains work in RA and DEC find this really easy!

[Mr Spock]

My EQ-5 couldn't be easier. Plonk it outside aligned with the patio slabs (my garden face due west exactly) and switch it on. That's it! Just undo the clamps to swing it around to where it needs to be, adjust the eye piece angle - my 102 has a rotatable focuser so being seated I can always get the eyepiece at eye level - and we are go.

A few nights ago I spent a couple of hours looking at Jupiter. Not having tracking would have done my head in.

I nudge can't tweak im-nudge-ag-tweak-ine faff us-tweak-ing nudge a nudge alt-tweak-az nudge... too much nudging, tweaking and faffing.

[Alan White]

Having recently again bought a Vixen GP all manual mount in a fit of nostalgia and comparing eq manual tracking to nudges on alt az, this thread hits all the points, oh and adds in @Stu’s brain to jelly comment as well 🤣

I cut my Astro teeth on a very wobbly, poorly mounted Bresser EQ back in the late 80’s or very early 90’s.
I used it how Michael @Mr Spock describes and that is how I use the GP now.
But I do find star hopping a slight challenge, but so far my brains have not liquified and leaked from my ears…
Perhaps they did years ago and nowts left to leak!

On Observed targets the tracking was nice, but I am unsure it’s worth the back and knee pain due to my non rotating focused and finder on my Vixen 103 scope.

So guess what’s now back on the observing pad?

 

This is the test AZ75, not a production model for record.

[Stu]

51 minutes ago, Mr Spock said:

My EQ-5 couldn't be easier. Plonk it outside aligned with the patio slabs (my garden face due west exactly) and switch it on.

Totally trivial to setup I agree, plonk it north and level with the correct latitude set and you are fine for visual tracking. I think I’ve only properly polar align an EQ once or twice, when I had goto fitted to them.

It’s only the star hopping bit I don’t get on with with an EQ. Clearly having a Vulcan’s logical brain helps 😉

[MalcolmM]

I would agree with everything that's been said. The only thing I would add is that I find a very quick North orientation by eye seems to give me enough accuracy for 'good enough' tracking. The altitude alignment was also very quick 'by eye' and never changed. So all in all my setup time is virtually non existent.

That being said, it's really only used for dedicated solar/lunar/planetary. Alt/Az all the way for star hopping!

Malcolm 

[skybadger]

29 minutes ago, Stu said:

Totally trivial to setup I agree, plonk it north and level with the correct latitude set and you are fine for visual tracking. I think I’ve only properly polar align an EQ once or twice, when I had goto fitted to them.

It’s only the star hopping bit I don’t get on with with an EQ. Clearly having a Vulcan’s logical brain helps 😉

I find it a case of thinking about the axiis. Even the star maps are drawn in ra and Dec. So imagine those lines in the sky and use them as your cardinal directions. It's just like alt az but tilted a bit. 

For example, m13 is vertically above the bright belt star in Hercules in Dec, hardly ever in alt.  Very easy to find the star and slew. 

Maybe the problem is that you aren't moving your head along the same directions as the eq but up/down/left/right. That'll cause confusion as you try to translate at the ep. 

[ScouseSpaceCadet]

The op and thread just highlights our different observing styles and there is no right way to do things. 😉

I really enjoy using my AVX eq goto mount and changing the orientation of the refractor's diagonal is not an inconvenience. The whole set up is very comfortable for longer sessions. Polar and star alignment is a bind but for planned sessions lasting two hours or more, spending twenty minutes setting up and getting this right pays off.

When star hopping along with a RACI finder, alt az does feel the most intuitive, but using slomos or the drift method when planetary observing for longer periods at higher powers does become a chore.

To be honest though, after using the AZGTI with smaller scopes,  ideally the one size fits all would be a high weight capacity alt az goto and tracking mount... One day...

[RobertI]

6 hours ago, Mr Spock said:

My EQ-5 couldn't be easier. Plonk it outside aligned with the patio slabs (my garden face due west exactly) and switch it on. That's it! Just undo the clamps to swing it around to where it needs to be, adjust the eye piece angle - my 102 has a rotatable focuser so being seated I can always get the eyepiece at eye level - and we are go.

A few nights ago I spent a couple of hours looking at Jupiter. Not having tracking would have done my head in.

I nudge can't tweak im-nudge-ag-tweak-ine faff us-tweak-ing nudge a nudge alt-tweak-az nudge... too much nudging, tweaking and faffing.

It was actually seeing your 102ED on your EQ5 that inspired me to have a go! I think the experience was made worse for me for some additional reasons:

• My mount is slightly stiff and ‘sticky in both axes making pushing to the right part of the sky more of a problem.
• The BVs are tall and heavy and made the changing orientation/angle both slightly nerve wracking and more of a pain.
• The mount was possibly set a bit low with the result that there was possibly more ‘low flying’ than should have been necessary
• My old non-goto is VERY slow to slew (max 8x), so can only be used for tracking and fine centering - no ‘fast slewing’ with my setup!

There are some additional things you can do with a manual altaz which you can’t do with an eq like lift the whole thing up to reposition the legs so they don’t get in the way!

Perhaps I’ll give it another go with my other CG5 which is goto and slightly better set up. 🙂

Edited September 18, 2022 by RobertI

[ScouseSpaceCadet]

16 minutes ago, RobertI said:

It was actually seeing your 102ED on your EQ5 that inspired me to have a go! I think the experience was made worse for me for some additional reasons:

• My mount is slightly stiff and ‘sticky in both axes making pushing to the right part of the sky more of a problem.
• The BVs are tall and heavy and made the changing orientation/angle both slightly nerve wracking and more of a pain.
• The mount was possibly set a bit low with the result that there was possibly more ‘low flying’ than should have been necessary
• My old non-goto is VERY slow to slew (max 8x), so can only be used for tracking and fine centering - no ‘slewing’ with my setup!

There are some additional things you can do with a manual altaz which you can’t do with an eq like lift the whole thing up to reposition the legs so they don’t get in the way!

Perhaps I’ll give it another go with my other CG5 which is goto and slightly better set up. 🙂

Reading your 'reasons why', the glaring problem is using the binoviewers. I can see how using those and having the mount a bit low too would cause quite a bit of discomfort!

 

[Paz]

I agree entirely with the OP. I only use my eq5 if its a small number of targets near to each other and in a fast part of the sky, or if sketching.

I agree binoviewing and eq mounts can be a frustrating and dangerous combination, and binoviewing is a key reason why the eq5 sees less action these days. .. .but I do have some epic sessions now amd again with the eq5.

[Davesellars]

While using the binoviewers and turning both RA and Dec to a new location in the sky, I loosen up sufficiently the rotatable focuser and one hand on the BVs while I turn the scope into the new location - the BVs then naturally stay upright and then when in position tighten the rotatable focuser then lock the EQ5 axis and then use the slo-mo controls from there.  I would also do the same with a heavy eyepiece otherwise you could end up in a dangerous position.  With lighter eyepieces - obviously that's not necessary.

I learnt finding targets with the EQ5 mount (8" SCT on it) and bought an Alt/Az quite some years after.   The EQ has many benefits over the Alt/Az like not having balance issues and changing eyepieces without losing the position is so much easier (again more of an issue with heavier eyepieces).  Tracking whether you've got the motor or not is simpler imho.   As mentioned before by SkyBadger, as you read the RA and Dec lines of the atlas makes it very simple to find objects via star-hopping.   For example, I've found attempting to traverse the Virgo galaxies is so much easier and sure with the EQ than using my dob when I'm having to rely on small movements in some direction.

However, I like the Alt/Az for a lightweight setup with the 80ED and BCOs etc - this is a great combination for a quick setup and viewing clusters, larger objects or having a scan around.

[RobertI]

11 hours ago, Paz said:

but I do have some epic sessions now amd again with the eq5.

Yes I will try again sometime (possibly without BVs) as I don’t recall previous sessions being so problematic. 
 

17 minutes ago, Davesellars said:

learnt finding targets with the EQ5 mount (8" SCT on it) and bought an Alt/Az quite some years after. 

Exactly the same here. I ‘grew up’ with EQs and only bought my first AltAz about eight years ago, so was surprised and disappointed with my EQ session. I think the final straw (which I didn’t previously mention) was that the RA motor seems to have developed a vibration issue which turns stars into small dashes and wipes out any planetary detail!!! Some investigations required.